Jack T. Martin

[Paul Trejo]

1 hour ago, Tom Hume said:

Hi Jason and Paul,

Sure, trying to locate the real John T, or Jack T, Martin might be fruitful, but since the film appears to be so blatantly coincidental, it looks to me like a possible trap somebody set for Walker. The real meaning of the film might be in the film itself, and here’s a suggestion I made in November of last year on this thread:  

“A shot in the dark: It’s my suspicion that John T Martin is a fictional character, and that the real filmmakers filmed a cameo of themselves at a building in downtown Dallas. The footage is between 1:14 and 1:27 and while it’s very dark, someone on the forum with the proper skills and software might be able to give us a good look at these fellows - it might turn out to be important.”

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that we all know the two guys in that cameo footage, but somebody on the forum with Photoshop skills would have to shed some light on the subjects, and identifying them looks a whole lot easier than identifying Prayer Man.

Tom

Tom,

Although you may be correct, and the film maker was more complicated than we know today, my interest is now a focus on the specific Jack Martin who was in contact with Gary Mack of the 6th Floor Museum in 2015.

 Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

1 hour ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

1. Obviously there are the published names/addresses of a few dozen Minuteman available which I think you(?) referenced earlier.   I looked through the names; and, besides Martin, there were just a few that looked...interesting.  Have you gone any deeper into the Minutemen on that list and/or tried to find a more complete list of Minuteman records/membership lists?

2. Obviously Martin was "advised" as you say to take the film of the bullet holes of the house on Turtle Creek, since the film includes a rather dramatic raising of a window blind to reveal the presumed place from which the shots came.  Unless Martin just  barged in uninvited, Walker is acting as an uncredited director/producer of the film since some of the footage can only come from Walker's own involvement and indeed Walker's cinematic direction - camera angles, lighting, etc.   This film is for this reason perhaps more correctly called something like "The Jack Martin Film directed by General Edin Walker (ret)."

3. There can be no reasonable explanation in my analysis that Martin films both Oswald and Walker's residential interiors unless he is given some invitation or instruction to film both. It's simply not vacation scrapbook material.   I agree with your reading that Walker "advised Jack Martin to take this film....of Lee Harvey Oswald passing out leaflets..."; or anyway I agree that this is the most natural assumption.  However, this statement you make actually elucidates an important and revealing question: How did Walker know Oswald would be on Canal Street unless he had some access to Oswald's personal calendar of planned events?   I don't see how Walker could know where Oswald would be unless there is some connection between Oswald and Walker, even if through an intermediary; do you?

4. Yes, of course I agree that this film is not necessarily any kind of connection to the assassination per se; all it implies is (to me anyway) is that Walker knows the movements of Oswald in advance.  Given what happens in November, an obvious question then is if Walker knows what LHO is going to do in New Orleans, does Walker gain awareness of what LHO is going to do in Dallas?

I think this is the whole case right here...

regards

Jason

Jason,

By the numbers:

1. I have not had the free time necessary to properly investigate the listing of a a hundred or so names of Minutemen published by the FBI.    

1.1.  Also, whether that Jack T. Martin in that listing is the same Jack Martin who was interviewed by Gary Mack (who claimed ownership of the Jack Martin Film), I am still uncertain.

1.2.  The only Jack Martin I’m interested in contacting would be the same Jack Martin who was in contact with Gary Mack in 2015.

2.  I agree with you, Jason, that the self-evident conclusion is that Ex-General Walker was advising Jack Martin about filming the bullet holes in his house, while in the same roll of film, filming Lee Harvey Oswald passing out FPCC leaflets in New Orleans.

3.  The only possible way that Ex-General Walker would know that Lee Harvey Oswald would be outside in New Orleans, handiung out FPCC fliers, is if somebody in New Orleans told him.

3.1.  Jim Garrison (1968) demonstrated to my satisfaction that the Fake FPCC in New Orleans in the summer of 1963 was being supervised by Guy Banister at 544 Camp Street. 

3.2.  Jeff Caufield (2015) demonstrated to my satisfaction that Guy Banister and Ex-General Edwin Walker were cooperating in Radical Right political affairs in 1963.

3.3.  In my reading of the situation, Guy Banister told Ex-General Walker that Lee Harvey Oswald would be on Canal Street passing out FPCC fliers in support of Fidel Castro on August 9, 1963

3.4.  In my reading, Lee Harvey Oswald had no clue that Ex-General Walker was spying on him.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 19, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Tom Hume]

I wish you all the best of luck in finding John T Martin, Paul (or “Jack T Martin”, if you prefer).

New topic - The Film:

I’ll go a little farther out on a limb and say that if a good hand with Photoshop were to look closely at 

1:14 through 1:27 of the John T Martin film and report back to us, we just might see Lee Harvey Oswald and one of his cohorts. 

http://emuseum.jfk.org/view/objects/asitem/search@/19/title-asc?t:state:flow=f8868938-26bf-4013-87ba-785a360b41c4

Thanks for the new link, Chris. One needs to enter “John T Martin” in the “Search” window (Jack T Martin won’t get it).

How about letting this post sit here for a few minutes to see if that hypothetical Photoshop hand will take the bate?

Tom

 

 

 

 

Edited August 21, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Jason Ward]

4 hours ago, Tom Hume said:

Hi Jason and Paul,

Sure, trying to locate the real John T, or Jack T, Martin might be fruitful, but since the film appears to be so blatantly coincidental, it looks to me like a possible trap somebody set for Walker. The real meaning of the film might be in the film itself, and here’s a suggestion I made in November of last year on this thread:  

“A shot in the dark: It’s my suspicion that John T Martin is a fictional character, and that the real filmmakers filmed a cameo of themselves at a building in downtown Dallas. The footage is between 1:14 and 1:27 and while it’s very dark, someone on the forum with the proper skills and software might be able to give us a good look at these fellows - it might turn out to be important.”

I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that we all know the two guys in that cameo footage, but somebody on the forum with Photoshop skills would have to shed some light on the subjects, and identifying them looks a whole lot easier than identifying Prayer Man.

Tom

 

Interesting points, Paul.  Many thanks for re-joining this discussion.

I like your approach of inviting us to consider that the "real meaning of the film might be the film itself."   So much of CT practice is based on the literal implication of clues instead of asking harder questions around where the clues are intended to lead us and who would want us pushed in that direction, imo.  I've read so much re: Walker in the last 24 hours that I have literally 50+ windows open and several pages worth of new sources/clippings/cites in my Zotero....but somewhere in what I've read is the story that "Jack Martin" became disgusted with Walker's extremism and thus made the film available publicly.  I find it rare that people actually change their stripes from one extreme to another, so somehow I doubt that a rabid anti-Communist Walker follower is going to reverse course and become a pacifist friend of communism; but false flag moves are plausible in dozens of places in this JFK story.  

Maybe an explanation for the film is that it's from someone double crossed by Walker?   If we take the approach you advocate, then the question we need to ask is "Who wants us to think Oswald is stalked by Walker in the summer of 63?  Or who wants us to think Walker knows where Oswald will be far enough in the future that Walker can send a film crew to record the Canal Street Oswald (FPCC) v. Carlos Bringuier (DRE) title fight?"   

.....someone who wants to set Walker up?    (for something Walker did NOT do)

.....or someone who wants to reveal what Walker was up to as revenge for some deal gone wrong?   (revealing what Walker did in fact do)

Carlos Bringuier is the New Orleans head of the Directorio Revolucionario Estaduntil (DRE); the nominally student wing of anti-Castro Cubans.  He is contacted by Oswald wearing his anti-Castro persona, then they meet again a few more times (WDSU broadcast debate; Canal St) with Oswald wearing his pro-Castro persona.  General Walker attended and financially supports the DRE.   I've always thought the whole Canal Street Bringuier-Oswald scuffle was staged.   

....are all 3 of them -Walker , Oswald , Bringuier- operating from the same play book?  Possibly?

....and who in this tangled web would want Walker outed as involved with Oswald?; or, what went wrong to cause the quest for revenge?  Or, if blackmail  is the flavor of this film; what is Walker being blackmailed NOT to do or say?

nice meeting you,

Jason

Ps -- my son is 13 and does things with Photoshop and Final Cut Pro that would be impossible for Hollywood 20 years ago; I'll see if I can get him to lighten up the potentially hidden filmmakers around 1:14.

Edited August 19, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

4 hours ago, Michael Clark said:

Tom, I agree with part of what you are saying. It seems likely that there is no Jack T. Martin, at least as far as this story goes. This film is portions of a longer film, or parts of multiple films. The bits that we see are a message to other people that there is more film that could and would be exposed if people don't tow the line. It's blackmail.

Hi Michael,

Can you elaborate on this?   IMO the film crucifies Walker without needing any more bits released, so if blackmail is the motive who is the blackmailed target?  What line is meant to be towed exactly?

thanks

Jason

[Jason Ward]

3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

 

...my interest is now a focus on the specific Jack Martin who was in contact with Gary Mack of the 6th Floor Museum in 2015....

 

perhaps candidates are people like this?

[Michael Clark]

17 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Michael,

Can you elaborate on this?   IMO the film crucifies Walker without needing any more bits released, so if blackmail is the motive who is the blackmailed target?  What line is meant to be towed exactly?

thanks

Jason

Jason, The film seems to be far too short to be complete. If someone was on vacation, would this be all that they took home with them? It has enough in it, and is short enough, to assume that there is more.The chances of a simple vacationer taking a few short sections of film that show Walkers house after the fake-hit on him, and Oswald leafleting in NOLA are as infinitesimal as it gets. 

Specifically, and presumptively, and only as an example, the LHO-leafleting clip would have a larger perspective of who was involved in the JFKA (Morales? Other perps that would show up at Watergate?). Does the full length film show other "passengers" on the plane. Who else was in the film of Walkers house? This could be enough to shut Perps up.

I'll place this in the perspective of my double-cross CT. This film, in it's entirety, might have been used, by Dallas money, industrialists and cops, to keep CIA element-perp-rogues and Anti-Castro Cubans from expecting follow-through on the Cuban invasion.

In short, this film is not complete and it suggests much more. What are we not seeing?

Edited August 19, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Michael Clark]

When did this film become public?

What are the first mentions in the record of this film?

[Jason Ward]

3 minutes ago, Michael Clark said:

When did this film become public?

What are the first mentions in the record of this film?

According to the opening post in this thread, Harold Weisberg acquired it from John/Jack Martin in 1968.  I gather it was available to purchase for a long period of time after that, although it's unclear to me how public this was.   I'm considering your earlier post re: double cross etc.

regards

Jason

[Michael Clark]

4 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

According to the opening post in this thread, Harold Weisberg acquired it from John/Jack Martin in 1968.  I gather it was available to purchase for a long period of time after that, although it's unclear to me how public this was.   I'm considering your earlier post re: double cross etc.

regards

Jason

For reference on my working,  pet, "double-cross" CT...

 

 

[Tom Hume]

Hi Jason,

What your son will see between 1:14 and 1:27 is two separate shots of two separate but similar looking young men (in their 20s?) standing on the inside of the entrance to a building. We see one man standing for a few seconds. The film is stopped and then started again, but another man has taken his place. These men are obviously posing for the camera but this footage is very dark. 

The entire 3-minute film appears to be a very poorly made home movie, but I submit that it was very likely filmed to appear so. The men in the foyer are essentially unnoticeable by the casual observer and I submit that this was intentional. The men were the filmmakers giving themselves a cameo, an intentional appearance that could only be appreciated with close scrutiny.

If I’m wrong about this, I’ll apologize in advance to your son (or anyone else that wants to take a close look at this) for wasting his time.

Tom

 

Edited August 20, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

 ....are all 3 of them -Walker , Oswald , Bringuier - operating from the same play book?  Possibly? ...

Jason

Jason,

In my reading of the situation, Ed Butler, a leader of INCA (Information Council of the Americas) which was a political propaganda firm established to topple Fidel Castro (and so of course obtained some CIA funding, as well as likely funding by the wealthy Clay Shaw) was close friends with Carlos Bringuier of the DRE, a radical, anti-Castro student group.

Ed Butler was also friends with many radio and television station managers, and could persuade them to help film Lee Harvey Oswald.

I mean -- whoever heard of a news station filming a Communist passing out leaflets on the street?   Yet Oswald got plenty of close-ups.  Oswald also got radio time -- and TV time.   This was all arranged by Guy Banister with the explicit coordination of Ed Butler.

Of course the so-called scuffle between Lee Harvey Oswald and Carlos Bringuier was staged -- and we know this because Oswald had previously written a Communist officer in Washington DC to boast that he had already had this street fight!   So, it was planned long in advance.

(Lee Harvey Oswald would take the newspaper clipping of his street scuffle with Carlos Bringuier to Mexico City with him, to help him argue that as a street fighter for Fidel, he deserved an instant visa into Cuba.  That's my reading.)

Guy Banister was in charge of the whole New Orleans sheep-dip, and he had plenty of hands on deck.  Ex-General Walker was hiding in the wings, and IMHO, Guy Banister was working with and for Walker.  Jack Martin was a quisling of Walker -- that's my reading of the situation.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited August 20, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

32 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

In my reading of the situation, Ed Butler, a leader of INCA (Information Council of the Americas) which was a political propaganda firm established to topple Fidel Castro (and so of course obtained some CIA funding, as well as likely funding by the wealthy Clay Shaw) was close friends with Carlos Bringuier of the DRE, a radical, anti-Castro student group.

Ed Butler was also friends with many radio and television station managers, and could persuade them to help film Lee Harvey Oswald.

I mean -- whoever heard of a news station filming a Communist passing out leaflets on the street?   Yet Oswald got plenty of close-ups.  Oswald also got radio time -- and TV time.   This was all arranged by Guy Banister with the explicit coordination of Ed Butler.

Of course the so-called scuffle between Lee Harvey Oswald and Carlos Bringuier was staged -- and we know this because Oswald had previously written a Communist officer in Washington DC to boast that he had already had this street fight!   So, it was planned long in advance.

(Lee Harvey Oswald would take the newspaper clipping of his street scuffle with Carlos Bringuier to Mexico City with him, to help him argue that as a street fighter for Fidel, he deserved an instant visa into Cuba.  That's my reading.)

Guy Banister was in charge of the whole New Orleans sheep-dip, and he had plenty of hands on deck.  Ex-General Walker was hiding in the wings, and IMHO, Guy Banister was working with and for Walker.  Jack Martin was a quisling of Walker -- that's my reading of the situation.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

the conspiracy lives on:

[Tom Hume]

Post deleted and moved. 

 

 

 

Edited October 13, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Paul Brancato]

On 8/19/2017 at 3:42 PM, Jason Ward said:

perhaps candidates are people like this?

Jason - what is this? Where is it from? Any idea what has been blacked out?