James Hosty and KGB Agent Kostikov

[Thomas Graves]

45 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

There is evidence that the 10/18/63 CIA cable from DC describing the possible Mexico City contact between Oswald and Kostikov was put in James Hosty's workbox where it sat untouched until 11/23/63.

That's some police work.

A follow-up Cable describing the Oswald letter to the Russian Embassy was delivered to FBI Dallas (from FBI HQ) on 11/20/63 and may not have been disseminated inter-office to Agents until 11/22/63.

I'm still gathering confirmation so I'll post links when I have them.

Keep up the good work, Chris.        

 --  Tommy  

Edited December 14, 2016 by Thomas Graves
correct "signature"

[Chris Newton]

9 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Keep up the good work, Chris.

Thanks Tommy.

 

Speaking of good police work. FBI Dallas was told by FBI new Orleans that the Oswalds had apparently left New Orleans in a two tone station wagon driven by a woman who spoke Russian.

...based on this scant information that Hosty had at the time, how did he actually find out it was Ruth Paine?

[Paul Brancato]

So Hosty implies in his book that the Oswald Kostikov connection was hidden from him, but not from higher ups. I think this implicates Hoover before the fact than it does Hosty.

[Chris Newton]

16 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

So Hosty implies in his book that the Oswald Kostikov connection was hidden from him, but not from higher ups.

Hey Paul,

I don't think the Oswald visit to the Cuban and Russian Embassies (or Consulates?) in Mexico was hidden. The 10/18/63 cable was delivered to Hosty's work "inbox" and the fact that it was still there on 11/23 meant it had not been acted on. Oswald's note sat in a cellophane wrapper on top of the same inbox until 11/24 when Hosty destroyed it.

We still, today, don't know if LHO ever met with Kostikov - it was just a possibility  - which I suspect was simply untrue (or unknowable) and part of the attempt to frame Oswald.

Certainly the significance of a possible meeting wasn't spelled out and we could lay that SNAFU on FBI HQ.

[Chris Newton]

I'd like to see the FBI lab report on the LHO Embassy Letter and the original draft.

 

Were there any fingerprints on either letter?

Did the actual typeface match Mrs. Paine's typewriter?

Was the paper from Mrs Paine's desk secretary? How about the envelope?

Why does Mrs. Paine claim that the original draft was one folded page when it was clearly two pages? The typed original was one page.

 

CE103 Original Oswald Draft:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=60459

Edited December 14, 2016 by Chris Newton
added link

[Paul Trejo]

Despite our minor disagreements on details, I maintain that Chris Newton is sharing important research on the LHO-Kostikov problem, and this should be of interest to all students of 20th century US History.

To summarize briefly: the Lopez Report (2003) rightly said that if LHO really did meet with KGB agent Kostikov during his Mexico City trip, then it is 100% certain that the USSR assassinated JFK.   All other research into CIA-did-it, Mafia-did-it, LBJ-did-it or Walker-did-it scenarios would be a royal waste of time.

Therefore, as an advocate of the Walker-did-it CT, I maintain that the LHO-Kostikov connection is a Big Lie.  It serves the USSR-did-it CT, and in my reading, this was the very first CT, the one that emerged out of Dallas in the first few minutes after the JFK assassination, and the one pushed by General Walker and the Radical Right, including Guy Banister, David Ferrie, Joseph Milteer, Johnny Martino, Frank Sturgis, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall, and so on.

As we have seen, it was also pushed by James Hosty in his 1996 book.

To be crystal clear about my theory -- LHO never met with Kostikov.  Rather, Kostikov was a scapegoat.  Linking LHO with Kostikov was a key part of the plan of the JFK Killers.  Anybody who tries to link LHO with Kostikov in 1963-1964 (and even up to 1996) has been part of the JFK assassination plot, IMHO.  It does not matter if those persons worked for the Dallas Police, the FBI or some rogues in the Mexico City CIA.  To link LHO with Kostikov is the same as framing LHO as the JFK assassin, and exposes the JFK conspiracy.

I'm eagerly looking forward to Chris Newton's findings.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 14, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

12 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

Speaking of good police work. FBI Dallas was told by FBI new Orleans that the Oswalds had apparently left New Orleans in a two tone station wagon driven by a woman who spoke Russian.

 

To answer my own query, a summary of FBI communications notes that a postal informant in New Orleans reported that Oswald submitted a "change of address" on 9/26/63 to the Paine address in Dallas. I'll post the cable when I find it.

[Chris Newton]

2 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

To be crystal clear about my theory -- LHO never met with Kostikov.  Rather, Kostikov was a scapegoat.  Linking LHO with Kostikov was a key part of the plan of the JFK Killers.  Anybody who tries to link LHO with Kostikov in 1963-1964 (and even up to 1996) has been part of the JFK assassination plot, IMHO.  It does not matter if those persons worked for the Dallas Police, the FBI or some rogues in the Mexico City CIA.  To link LHO with Kostikov is the same as framing LHO as the JFK assassin, and exposes the JFK conspiracy.

CE103  mentions a meeting with "Kostin" or "Kosti" at the Russian Embassy in Mexico.

I agree that this indicates, with a high probability, that Oswald met Kostikov, if the letter is genuine.

If the letter is not genuine then that fact would indicate a conspiracy between Mrs Paine and Hosty to frame Oswald.

The story that Mrs Paine tells about how she copied and stole the original draft is full of convolutions and begs disbelief.

There is also a possibility that Oswald typed CE103 and the envelope and mailed it.  Mrs Paine could have subsequently stole Oswald's draft from his belongings any time afterward and passed it on to SA Hosty (before 11/22/63). This scenario would be devastating to the extant story. It would mean that Mrs Paine was acting as an FBI Informant.

 

I don't think that any of these scenarios help Paul T's theory.

[Paul Brancato]

Seriously, how does the cable get into Hosty's box? Isn't that the missing piece?

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Seriously, how does the cable get into Hosty's box? Isn't that the missing piece?

Paul,

SA Hosty had the Oswald "file" re-assigned to him when it was determined that the Oswalds had left New Orleans in a station wagon with Texas plates. It was then his responsibility to track down Oswald and report on his activities.

When cables from other FBI offices or FBI HQ were received by Dallas FBI that referenced Oswald, the cables were routed to the Agent, in this case Hosty, that had the file and put in his "work box" (inbox). The Agent would read the cable and file it in his "local file" and take whatever action or inaction was required.

The note that Oswald brought to the FBI office was given to Hosty by the receptionist (who read it btw) and after reading it, Hosty put it on top of his "work box" in a cellophane wrapper until 11/23/63 when Hosty prepared a memo on the note. The note and the memo were destroyed by Hosty after Ruby killed Oswald. The cables concerning Oswald were retrieved from his work box when the Oswald file was taken away from Hosty post-assassination and re-assigned to another Agent (on 11/23/63 apparently).

Edited December 14, 2016 by Chris Newton
grammar

[Paul Trejo]

4 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

CE103  mentions a meeting with "Kostin" or "Kosti" at the Russian Embassy in Mexico.

I agree that this indicates, with a high probability, that Oswald met Kostikov, if the letter is genuine.

If the letter is not genuine then that fact would indicate a conspiracy between Mrs Paine and Hosty to frame Oswald.

The story that Mrs Paine tells about how she copied and stole the original draft is full of convolutions and begs disbelief.

There is also a possibility that Oswald typed CE103 and the envelope and mailed it.  Mrs Paine could have subsequently stole Oswald's draft from his belongings any time afterward and passed it on to SA Hosty (before 11/22/63). This scenario would be devastating to the extant story. It would mean that Mrs Paine was acting as an FBI Informant.

I don't think that any of these scenarios help Paul T's theory.

Chris,

There is another interpretation of the facts.  The only source we have for the name "Kostin" comes from Lee Harvey Oswald's "Soviet Embassy Letter."

Let us assume -- for the sake of argument only -- that Ruth Paine is telling the truth.  

Let us also assume -- for the sake of argument only -- that LHO did not remember the name of Kostikov, and so he wrote "Kostin."  (In this way, we assume also that LHO really did meet "Kostikov", however he wrote down "Kostin").

In this interpretation, nobody had ever heard of "Kostin" before, until Ruth Paine handed over LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" to FBI agent James Hosty at 10am on 11/23/1963, the morning after the JFK assassination.

If (and only if) this is correct -- then all of the CIA and FBI cables that mention "Kostin" can be traced to James Hosty, and must appear after 10am on 11/23/1963.

This is the more likely scenario in my CT.   It also harmonizes with the strange fact that the 10/18/1963 CIA cable to the FBI calls LHO, "Lee HENRY Oswald," which was the very variation that the CIA high-command had chosen on 10/1/1963 to catch their Mole.

In other words -- James Hosty was working closely with David Morales way back in September, 1963 -- before LHO's Mexico City trip.

(Finally, if this is accepted, then I would add a further possibility: that LHO derived the name of "Kostin" from a name he heard or read about in the USSR, and never met any such person at all in Mexico City.  The Lopez Report suggests this, i.e. that LHO merely made a total fool of himself at the USSR Embassy in Mexico City.  In this case, it was dumb luck that allowed James Hosty to pretend that "Kostin" and "Kostikov" were one and the same person -- and this conflation has been widely taken for granted.)

Of course -- if you can produce only one example of a CIA/FBI cable before 11/23/1963 that mentions the name of "Kostin" -- unrelated to LHO's 11/9/1963 "Soviet Embassy Letter" -- then my interpretation here will break down.   Yet I challenge anybody to produce one.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

In this interpretation, nobody had ever heard of "Kostin" before, until Ruth Paine handed over LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" to FBI agent James Hosty at 10am on 11/23/1963, the morning after the JFK assassination.

Not really.

The CIA had "intercepted" the letter allegedly sent by LHO to the Russian Embassy in DC between 11/13 and 11/19 (HTLINGUAL) and sent a cable to the FBI which was, in turn, disseminated to FBI Dallas on 11/22.

Prior to any of this occurring, FBI C/I was running the double agent TUMBLWEED who Kostikov had sent to a known KGB Agent in New York. The NY KGB Agent was known to the FBI as being in the 13th Directive. This is why the FBI was convinced that Kostikov was in the 13th. TUMBLEWEED confirmed the identities of both KGB Agents via photos. The FBI has a memo describing all of this.

Because there was no KGB at the Russian Embassy in Mexico named "Kostin" it was assumed that Oswald meant "Kostikov".

DAP knew about TUMBLEWEED and Kostikov because he was the CIA's political Officer in Mexico.

IMHO Hosty would not have known the significance of "Kostin" or "Kostikov" but would have known importance of the contact within the Embassies.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=118886&search=kostikov_and+airtel#relPageId=35&tab=page

 

[Paul Trejo]

45 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Not really.

The CIA had "intercepted" the letter allegedly sent by LHO to the Russian Embassy in DC between 11/13 and 11/19 (HTLINGUAL) and sent a cable to the FBI which was, in turn, disseminated to FBI Dallas on 11/22.

Prior to any of this occurring, FBI C/I was running the double agent TUMBLWEED who Kostikov had sent to a known KGB Agent in New York. The NY KGB Agent was known to the FBI as being in the 13th Directive. This is why the FBI was convinced that Kostikov was in the 13th. TUMBLEWEED confirmed the identities of both KGB Agents via photos. The FBI has a memo describing all of this.

Because there was no KGB at the Russian Embassy in Mexico named "Kostin" it was assumed that Oswald meant "Kostikov".

DAP knew about TUMBLEWEED and Kostikov because he was the CIA's political Officer in Mexico.

IMHO Hosty would not have known the significance of "Kostin" or "Kostikov" but would have known importance of the contact within the Embassies.

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=118886&search=kostikov_and+airtel#relPageId=35&tab=page

So, that actually confirms my hypothesis -- that the name of "Kostin" never appears in the JFK scenario aside from the context of LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" dated 11/9/1963.

There was one other method (which I mentioned days ago) in which James Hosty could have seen LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter," before the date in which Ruth Paine handed it over to Hosty on Saturday, November 23, 1963.   Namely -- James Hosty could have received that letter from FBI Headquarters in Washington DC, as they intercepted LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" from the US Post Office.

Guy Banister (and possibly LHO) knew that the FBI would intercept this letter -- since it was SOP for the FBI to intercept every letter sent to the Soviet Embassy in 1963.

Also -- as you pointed out Chris -- the FBI "primary" of the LHO file was James Hosty, and so he would have been among the first to see LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" sometime after 11/12/1963, when LHO mailed it to Washington DC, via the Post Office.

So -- my challenge is further extended as follows: Nobody has any official record of the name "Kostin" before 11/12/1963, when LHO sent his "Soviet Embassy Letter" to Washington DC.   That is the absolute soonest Hosty (or anybody official) could have seen the name of "Kostin."

The only thing that can debunk my hypothesis now is for somebody -- anybody -- to show an FBI (or CIA) document that mentions "Kostin" before 11/12/1963.  

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo

[Chris Newton]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

the name of "Kostin" never appears in the JFK scenario aside from the context of LHO's "Soviet Embassy Letter" dated 11/9/1963.

Correct. ...postmarked 11/12/1963

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

Nobody has any official record of the name "Kostin" before 11/12/1963, when LHO sent his "Soviet Embassy Letter" to Washington DC.

Ruth Paine allegedly read it and apparently wrote the name when she allegedly copied the letter sometime between 11/9/63 and 11/22/63.

Michael Paine allegedly read it and discussed it with Ruth during that time.

 

Edited December 15, 2016 by Chris Newton
wrong quote

[Paul Trejo]

55 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Correct. ...postmarked 11/12/1963

Ruth Paine allegedly read it and apparently wrote the name when she allegedly copied the letter sometime between 11/9/63 and 11/22/63.

Michael Paine allegedly read it and discussed it with Ruth during that time.

Agreed -- Michael Paine was pressed by WC attorneys about this.  Michael said he had read the greeting as, "Dear Lisa," and so he became annoyed when Ruth insisted that Michael look at the letter.  If LHO wanted to brag to his girlfriend with a load of baloney, said Michael, it certainly wasn't any of Ruth's business.

Pressed about it, Michael admitted that he must have seen LHO's original handwritten note -- because Ruth's copy of it would have been legible, and he would have clearly seen the greeting as "Dear Sirs." 

So, here is the timetable, as I recollect the testimony:

Saturday, November 9, 1963 -- LHO begins typing his "Soviet Embassy Letter" on a typewriter on Ruth Paine's secretary desk in her dining-room/living-room space.  He spends hours on the letter.   When he finishes, he takes all the typed drafts away -- but leaves his handwritten copy.  Ruth notices it, but resists her curiosity. 

Sunday, November 10, 1963 -- Ruth Paine wakes up very early and notices the letter is still there.  She glances at the letter.  She sees the words, "notorious FBI," and this angers her.  (She had been visited by FBI agent James Hosty only five days prior -- and another five days prior to that, and Ruth respected the FBI highly.)  So, Ruth decided to read the whole letter.   She was outraged by what she read, and she pondered what to do about it.  She wanted the FBI to see the letter.   She slid the letter into one of the drawers of her secretary desk, wondering if LHO forgot about it.   If LHO remembered, she would show LHO where she put it.   Later in the day, she asked Michael and LHO to help her move her furniture around.  LHO did not mention the letter.  At some point, she showed the letter to Michael Paine, who barely glanced at it; did not read it fully, and was annoyed at Ruth.  Later that day, Ruth decided to make her own copy of LHO's letter.  Then, as she says, she "placed it back."  Ruth worried about it all day, and wanted to confront LHO about it (as she testified to the WC).  She even sat with LHO at night, watching TV, pondering (as she testified) whether or not to confront LHO.  She decided against it, and went to bed.

Monday, November 11, 1963 - Veterans Day.  (I believe LHO recovered his handwritten letter by this point.  It seems that LHO really wanted to make Ruth curious and make it easy for her to get the letter.  Also, LHO knew that the FBI would intercept the letter in Washington, DC; so LHO was really creating a paper trail for the FBI to follow -- just like when LHO himself called the FBI to interview him after his arrest in New Orleans.  LHO wanted FBI attention.  LHO knew the FBI would trace his subscription to "The Worker" newspaper in NYC, and his subscription to "The Militant" newspaper in NYC.  It seems to me that Guy Banister had planned the "Soviet Embassy Letter," just as Guy Banister had planned the Mexico City trip in the first place.)

Tuesday, November 12, 1963 -- LHO went back to work, and at some point, mailed his typed copy of the "Soviet Embassy Letter" to Washington, DC.  The FBI intercepted the letter very quickly.

Ruth Paine expected FBI agent James Hosty to visit her house again in the coming days -- and she would give him her copy of the letter at that time -- but Hosty never did visit, until after the JFK assassination. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 15, 2016 by Paul Trejo
typos