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Micah Mileto

David Lifton teases Final Charade on the Night Fright Show

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15 hours ago, Ollie Curme said:

I agree that Hoover seemed to come to a LN conclusion unduly early, but he didn't call off the search for possible confederates until Saturday morning:

At 4:01PM EST (3:01PM Dallas time) Oswald had been in custody for 1 hour and 11 minutes. At this point there was little evidence against him, except for an eyewitness report that he entered a movie theater without paying. Despite this, Hoover called Bobby Kennedy again and told him “I thought we had the man who killed the President down in Dallas.” and “since the Secret Service is tied up, I thought we should move into the case.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=96&tab=page

Also at 4PM, Hoover put out a teletype to all FBI offices: “All offices immediately contact all informants, security, racial and criminal, as well as other sources for information bearing on assassination of President Kennedy. All offices immediately establish whereabouts of bombing suspects, all known Klan and hate group members, known racial extremists, and any other individuals who on the basis of information available in your files may possibly have been involved.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=8&tab=page

At 5:15pm J. Edgar Hoover put out a memo stating that LHO was the principal suspect, seemingly based only on his leftist views and travel to Russia: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=2&tab=page

By the next morning, Saturday November 23, Hoover apparently felt certain that they had their man, and further investigation was not warranted. He again put out a teletype to all offices stating “Lee Harvey Oswald has been developed as the principal suspect in the assassination of President Kennedy. He has been formerly charged with the President’s murder along with the murder of Dallas Texas patrolman J.D. Tippit by Texas State authorities. In view of developments all offices should resume normal contacts with informants and other sources with respect to bombing suspects, hate group members and known racial extremists. Daily teletype summaries may be discontinued.”
http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=62251#relPageId=20&tab=page

Ollie,

This is very valuable data.   Many thanks.

This is one step forward in my argument with Cliff.   I am trying to find the very first time that J. Edgar Hoover explicitly stated the "Lone Nut" dogma of the JFK assassination.

The data you provide is implicit -- it is suggested there, but not yet explicitly stated, as in the words, "Lee Oswald with no accomplices anywhere."

At some point before the WC was formed, J. Edgar Hoover stated this plainly.   His WC testimony was not the first time, because even in that testimony, Hoover refers to a prior, formal statement.  Here is that testimony from May 14, 1964:

Representative BOGGS. ...I read the FBI report very carefully and the whole implication of the report is that, number one, Oswald shot the President; number two, that he was not connected with any conspiracy of any kind, nature or description.
Mr. HOOVER. Correct.
Representative BOGGS. Do you still subscribe to that?
Mr. HOOVER. I subscribe to it even more strongly today than I did at the time that the report was written. You see, the original idea was that there would be an investigation by the FBI and a report would be prepared in such form that it could be released to the public.
Representative BOGGS. Surely.
Mr. HOOVER. Then a few days later, after further consideration, the President decided to form a commission, which I think was very wise...And the more I have read these reports, the more I am convinced that Oswald was the man who fired the gun; and he fired three times, killed the President, and wounded Governor Connally.

So, Ollie, your data shows the earliest statements by Hoover which suggest that Hoover was nearly willing to stop all further search for killers on 11/22/1963, and that by 11/23/1963 he literally stopped all further search for killers.

That's basically the ball game -- but it remains IMPLICIT.  My question is, when did Hoover EXPLICITLY use words similar to, "LONE SHOOTER?"

Many thanks,
--Paul Trejo

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Mr. HOOVER. I subscribe to it even more strongly today than I did at the time that the report was written. 

Hoover went along with the LN cover-up reluctantly at first.

He was not the author of the LN  -- promoting it was just part of his job.

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Hoover never subscribed to the LN angle.  And many FBI agents did not. All you have to do look at Donald Adams book, or Anthony Summers 1994 Vanity Fair article.

Hoover went along with it, for private reasons and also the fact that that is where the DPD was headed, and the CIA was headed.

Hoover didn't give a damn about who killed Kennedy.  If he had, he would not have been at the race track on the Saturday after. And in Summers' book on Hoover he has him saying twice that he really does not have the foggiest idea of who killed Kennedy.  (Reclaiming Parkland, p.246)  But according to his own handwriting, he suspected that the CIA had sold him a bill of goods about Oswald being in Mexico City. (ibid, p. 266)

By the end of the first day, Hoover had jumped on board, although he knew the evidence was not strong against Oswald  

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24 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Hoover never subscribed to the LN angle.  And many FBI agents did not. All you have to do look at Donald Adams book...

By the end of the first day, Hoover had jumped on board, although he knew the evidence was not strong against Oswald  

James,

FBI agent Don Adams provided the backbone of Jeff Caufield's Walker-did-it CT.  The Radical Right killed JFK, said Adams.

Hoover shut down Adams' investigation precisely because it contradicted his official FBI position of a Lone Nut.

Now, even as a doubter you admit that Hoover stood by the Lone Nut theory "by the end of the first day."

That's all I need to cinch my case 

Regards 

--Paul Trejo 

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Please note: Brent Holland's interview with me constitutes my report of the accounts of witnesses who I interviewed on camera in March 2015.  I have attempted to faithfully convey their accounts (as told to me) of what they experienced on November 22, 1963.   In reporting these accounts, pseudonyms were used so they will not be bothered or subject to pressure as the effort goes forward to find a national TV venue for their accounts.  When that occurs, I will notify Brent Holland and that news will be posted on this thread.

Thanks.

DSL

10/15/2017; 12:50 a.m. PDT

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David,

When can we expect your next book?

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15 hours ago, David Lifton said:

Please note: Brent Holland's interview with me constitutes my report of the accounts of witnesses who I interviewed on camera in March 2015.  I have attempted to faithfully convey their accounts (as told to me) of what they experienced on November 22, 1963.   In reporting these accounts, pseudonyms were used so they will not be bothered or subject to pressure as the effort goes forward to find a national TV venue for their accounts.  When that occurs, I will notify Brent Holland and that news will be posted on this thread.

 

 

 

Thanks.

 

 

 

 

DSL

 

10/15/2017; 12:50 a.m. PDT

 

Can I ask something? Is it true that you once personally saw Dr. Humes getting so upset at the HSCA's interviews that his fists were literally shaking? You mentioned it in Clandestine America Nov-Dec/1978-Jan-fed 1979 vol. 2 no. 5 , but the record isn't 100% sure that Dr. Humes did that. And if that did happen, was it after his HSCA interview with Dr. Boswell, or was it his final testimony which was coerced? A confirmation either way would be nice. 

Edited by Micah Mileto

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From Chapter 24 of Best Evidence, Chapter 24 ("House Select Committee: Public Hearings),  p. 552 (either hardcover or Carroll & Graf). . . : this covers my experiences on 9/7/78, when I was a commentator for WETA, the Washsington PBS station covering the HSCA hearings.  As soon as Dr. Humes finished testifying---with his contentious back and forth about the location of the rear entry in JFK's skull--he returned to his seat, and I exited the broadcast booth and ran down to where he was seated. Here's what I wrote: 

     "When Humes left the stand, I went over and sat down beside him.   The Committee had tried to impeach his testimony, which stood in the way of their analysis.  He should have had legal representation.

     "Sitting next to him, I could see that Humes' hands were trembling."  I asked him, "Dr. Humes, why don't you have a lawyer""  He replied: "I don't need a lawyer. I have nothing to hide." 

     That's what I wrote--circa September 1978--and that's what I remember.  I don't recall writing anything for "Clandestine America" and don't know what that is.

DSL, 10/15/2017; 5:47 PDT

 

 

Edited by David Lifton

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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

At a talk she gave a year or so ago, Judy Baker said that Lifton's deal for his book got cancelled.

I wonder if he will comment on that. 

Judyth is a proven xxxx and fantast.  She traffics in rubbish.  I'm surprised you would be involved in spreading anything she says about me.

Postscript: I was one of the very early researchers to speak with Judyth, at length. That conversation--the first (and only) conversation I ever had with her --was  on March 4, 2000. The call was taped (because I believed, at the time, she was legitimate, and might have important information about LHO).  Within minutes it became clear, from her mannerisms and her general defensiveness, that she was a very peculiar person of low credibility. It was during this conversation that she made the statement that she had had a telephone call with Lee, prior to JFK's assassination, and that they planned to meet at "a fine hotel in Cancun". Unfortunately, Cancun, as a resort, did not exist back in 1963, and when this was pointed out, by the late Robert Chapman (a close friend of mine) Judyth made numerous efforts to wriggle this way and that to get off the hook about her false statement.  It  may well be that my work will be published by a "fine publisher" but you can rest assured that Judyth and Lee never had a conversation about meeting at a "fine hotel" in Cancun. 

Edited by David Lifton
To add relevant commentary.

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3 hours ago, Tom Wilson said:

David,

When can we expect your next book?

This project has gone on for  much longer than originally intended (which was also, BTW, the case with Best Evidence).  Rest assured that I'm involved 24/7 in bringing it to a conclusion.  As soon as final arrangements are completed, an announcement will be made via the Internet and on Brent Holland's show.  Stay tuned.   DSL

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On 4/5/2017 at 2:59 PM, James DiEugenio said:

Hoover never subscribed to the LN angle.  And many FBI agents did not. All you have to do look at Donald Adams book, or Anthony Summers 1994 Vanity Fair article.

Hoover went along with it, for private reasons and also the fact that that is where the DPD was headed, and the CIA was headed.

Hoover didn't give a damn about who killed Kennedy.  If he had, he would not have been at the race track on the Saturday after. And in Summers' book on Hoover he has him saying twice that he really does not have the foggiest idea of who killed Kennedy.  (Reclaiming Parkland, p.246)  But according to his own handwriting, he suspected that the CIA had sold him a bill of goods about Oswald being in Mexico City. (ibid, p. 266)

By the end of the first day, Hoover had jumped on board, although he knew the evidence was not strong against Oswald  

I disagree with this assessment. Completely.  I've read all the detailed memos Hoover wrote on Friday afternoon, 11/22 (and beyond); and listened to most of the available taped conversations he had with Johnson.  Where do you get this idea that Hoover "never subscribed to the LN angle."  That's absurd.  Yes, Hoover subscribed to it. In fact, he bought it hook, line and sinker (and if he had private thoughts to the contrary, that occurred later).  But your broad generalizations are completely without merit. Furthermore, I sat down for a one-on-one multi-hour tape recorded conversation with Richard Rogge, the FBI Supervisor in charge of the Dallas Field Office investigation, at his home in Westlake Village, California, in 1984.  Without question, Rogge believed that Oswald was the lone assassin.  In 1989, I had an hour long filmed interview with FBI Agent Vince Drain, in Dallas. Another true believer. And still another with Doyle Williams, the FBI agent knocked to the floor by a SS agent at Parkland.  No indication whatsoever that he didn't believe that Oswald was JFK's assassin.  The notion that Hoover "didn't believe it" or "went along with it" is pure nonsense.  Furthermore, Jim DiEugenio, I would hope that as a teacher you would know better.  it is a very serious error to promulgate among new students of this case, because it misses the point that there was a powerful strategic deception that was deployed in connection with JFK's murder to create the false appearance that Oswald was JFK's assassin.  (Or perhaps you don't believe that, either?)  Yes, there were people who "knew better", but judged by what he wrote, and what he said, Hoover was not one of them.  (And neither was Rogge or Drain, or Doyle Williams).   

DSL, 10/15/2017  6:35 p.m. PDT

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58 minutes ago, David Lifton said:

From Chapter 24 of Best Evidence, Chapter 24 ("House Select Committee: Public Hearings),  p. 552 (either hardcover or Carroll & Graf). . . : this covers my experiences on 9/7/78, when I was a commentator for WETA, the Washsington PBS station covering the HSCA hearings.  As soon as Dr. Humes finished testifying---with his contentious back and forth about the location of the rear entry in JFK's skull--he returned to his seat, and I exited the broadcast booth and ran down to where he was seated. Here's what I wrote: 

     "When Humes left the stand, I went over and sat down beside him.   The Committee had tried to impeach his testimony, which stood in the way of their analysis.  He should have had legal representation.

     "Sitting next to him, I could see that Humes' hands were trembling."  I asked him, "Dr. Humes, why don't you have a lawyer""  He replied: "I don't need a lawyer. I have nothing to hide." 

     That's what I wrote--circa September 1978--and that's what I remember.  I don't recall writing anything for "Clandestine America" and don't know what that is.

DSL, 10/15/2017; 5:47 PDT

 

 

http://jfk.hood.edu/Collection/Weisberg Subject Index Files/A Disk/Assassination Information Bureau/Item 67.pdf

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David:

You didn't answer the question.  That is your right of course.

As per Hoover and the SBT,  all you have to do is read Anthony Summers' book Conspiracy  and you will see that Hoover never bought the SBT.  I used this in Reclaiming Parkland, p. 246.

Transcript of his call to LBJ,  Beschloss' Taking Charge

LBJ: How many shots were fired?

JEH: Three

LBJ: Any of them fired at me?

JEH:  No...The president was hit by the first and third. The second shot hit the governor. (p. 54)

He also didn't buy LHO in Mexico City either.  John Newman proved this for an article he did for Probe Magazine.(RP p. 266)

And the FBI sequencing of shots is different than Arlen Specter's is it not?  Even Bugliosi admitted this. (RP, p. 251)

As the former FBI agent Mr. Adams wrote in his book, "From an Office Building with a High Powered Rifle",  the agents who studied the case knew the LHO story and SBT were BS.  When Adams was transferred to Dallas and saw the Z film with them for the first time, he said: "Its obvious he was hit from two different directions"  They said to him, words to the effect:  You think we don't know that? But that's what Hoover and Tolson want. (ibid, p. 245)

In other words Hoover and the FBI went along with the official cover up.

That's really news to you? 

 

 

Edited by James DiEugenio

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