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Micah Mileto

David Lifton teases Final Charade on the Night Fright Show

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On 8/29/2018 at 11:12 AM, David Lifton said:

Response:  Sort of. . . As I recall, one of the two FBI agents called the FBI, and in that phone call, was informed the the FBI Lab had received a bullet that was found on a Dallas stretcher.  Either during that call---or it was a second call (I'm not sure)--one of the agents inquired (or was informed , by Humes) about a bullet that would dissolve--an "ice bullet."  I  addressed all of this in a post written several years ago, because to me, it was an example of Humes dark sense of humor, and in fact he was making reference to a "bad guy" character in the Dick Tracy cartoon strip, who fired "ice bullets." Something like that.  Perhaps someone can locate my post on the subject. I actually did some research on the cartoon strip, so I could get the correct quote(s), and attribute it (or them) to the proper character.  I was my belief that if in fact Humes was alluding to the Tracy cartoon strip, then he was not (at all) fooled by the "bulletless" body, and was making a sarcastic reference to it.  DSL 6/29/2018 - 8:10 AM PDT

From [Francis X. O'Neill's 4/6/2005 interview by Brian R. Hollstein from *The Society of Former Special Agents of the Federal Bureau of Investigation* (SFSAFBI)] http://www.nleomf.org/assets/pdfs/nlem/oral-histories/FBI_O-Neill_interview.pdf

 

F: [...] We just flipped him over. Jim Sibert said, “What is that right there?”  In the upper right hand back, there was a hole and the doctor said, “Oh, my God, that’s a bullet hole.” So I am closer to him, to the body, than I am to you now. The doctors took their surgical probes. First of all, they tried to insert a finger in the hole, then they took the surgical probe and they probed with their fingers in the back. What happened? How come no point of exit?  

 

We hadn’t got up to the head yet, but there was still quite a big hole there. So Jim left then. One of us decided that Jim would be the one to call the Bureau and he called the Bureau, the laboratory, and he said, “Look, we are here, we have a body and a bullet hole, but there’s no bullet. Could it be an ice bullet like Dick Tracy? The Bureau said they just found a bullet on a stretcher in Dallas and it was a silver, pristine type bullet.  

 

So we came back and told that to the doctors and the doctor said, “Ah, that explains it. The bullet that was shot through the upper back here worked its way through external cardiac massage.” They knew they did that down in Dallas most probably. Rather than saying “most probably,” and there is no question in our minds that that particular bullet was in the back, fell out and landed on the stretcher.

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On 2/27/2018 at 6:24 PM, David Lifton said:

My final conclusion on this matter is that Dr. Perry never made an incision.

In addition to this previously-mentioned 2009 comment by Dr. Robert McClelland....

"Some people have even said 'Oh, that tracheostomy has been altered; it's too big a wound'. Well, I can speak for that -- no, it had not been altered. That's exactly the way it was made at Parkland. It's just that people expected it to be smaller."

....there are also these 1992 remarks concerning the size of the tracheotomy wound by four other Parkland Hospital doctors....

Dr. Charles Baxter said:

"I was right there, and the tracheostomy I observed and the autopsy photos look the same—very compatible."

Dr. Marion Jenkins (comparing the autopsy pictures with the trach wound he saw at Parkland):

"They're the same."

Dr. Charles J. Carrico:

"I've seen the autopsy photos and they are very compatible to the actual tracheostomy."

Dr. Malcolm Perry:

"Of course, tissues sag and stretch after death, but any suggestion that this wound was intentionally enlarged is wrong."

Source for the above four quotes:

The Journal Of The American Medical Association; May 27, 1992; Page 2805

So, David Lifton, do you still stand by this statement of yours from last year?....

"Dr. Perry never made an incision." -- David S. Lifton; February 27, 2018
 

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28 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

In addition to this previously-mentioned 2009 comment by Dr. Robert McClelland....

"Some people have even said 'Oh, that tracheostomy has been altered; it's too big a wound'. Well, I can speak for that -- no, it had not been altered. That's exactly the way it was made at Parkland. It's just that people expected it to be smaller."

....there are also these 1992 remarks concerning the size of the tracheotomy wound by four other Parkland Hospital doctors....

Dr. Charles Baxter said:

"I was right there, and the tracheostomy I observed and the autopsy photos look the same—very compatible."

Dr. Marion Jenkins (comparing the autopsy pictures with the trach wound he saw at Parkland):

"They're the same."

Dr. Charles J. Carrico:

"I've seen the autopsy photos and they are very compatible to the actual tracheostomy."

Dr. Malcolm Perry:

"Of course, tissues sag and stretch after death, but any suggestion that this wound was intentionally enlarged is wrong."

Source for the above four quotes:

The Journal Of The American Medical Association; May 27, 1992; Page 2805

So, David Lifton, do you still stand by this statement of yours from last year?....

"Dr. Perry never made an incision." -- David S. Lifton; February 27, 2018
 

Any chance you could find the Nashville Banner article David referenced?

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41 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

Any chance you could find the Nashville Banner article David referenced?

No.

 

Edited by David Von Pein

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On 4/2/2018 at 7:52 PM, David Lifton said:

Andrew Prutsok:  Thanks for finding and distributing this article about Dr. Dave Stewart.  And to Paul Rigby for also distributing it.  I am working with an archivist in Tennessee attempting to locate the major  article in the Nashville Banner that --I believe (based on 30 year old recollection, was a front page item)--preceded this one. In the article that I vividly remember, and which is (unfortunately) located in a file in a storage box, Dr. Stewart's main point was that (based on conversations with Perry on 11/22)  Dr. Perry did not have to make an incision, and simply "pushed the tube" through the pre-existing bullet hole (something along those lines).  I carefully photocopied, and filed that Nashville Banner article; unfortunately, its in "storage."  But that article led to my original interest in Dr. Stewart, who I interviewed in detail by phone in 1982, and then came the hour long (at least)  professionally filmed interview at his home in Tennessee (with Pat Valentino present) in June of 1989; and then  (one or two days later) the multi-hour visit with Groden at his home in Media, PA (alng with a multi-hour filmed interview of Groden) at which time (but not during our actual interview, with the camera running) he played for us an excellent 3/4" copy of the Perry interview, by Barker, in which Perry clearly and unequivocally stated that he left the wound "inviolate.".  I'm postponing further comment on all this until I can (hopefully) locate the original article in the Nashville Banner.

With one exception: Pat Valentino has pointed out another possibility (and I hadn't thought of this until recently): That Groden's 3/4" video of Perry--a very special item that he had "obtained" from someone at CBS, and very early on--was   so clear compared to what's available today (via the Internet) --and which is "muddled" and is subject to interpretation as to which word was being spoken (i.e., "inviolate" or "invalid") that  its entirely possible that there was further hanky panky with the audio record of this interview in the years following.  In other words, there is the possibility that Groden obtained his very special (and very clear) 3/4" copy of the CBS tape (which he played for us in June 1989, but obviously had possessed for many years previously); and then came another round of messing around with that tape, perhaps (for example) in connection with the 1993 CBS documentary on JFK's assassination produced by Dan Rather in 1993.

So among all the things that Groden may have "obtained" and stored away --somewhere--is this very special (and very early) copy of the Barker/Perry interview, in which the word "inviolate" is clearly (and quite unequivocally) audible.

  It is pretty obvious that this particular sentence that Perry spoke received some special attention (over the years) since the official CBS transcript that I received from CBS in New York back in 1967 (and which is on file at the Gerald Ford library) uses the word "inviolate", whereas Steve White's book (which was published in 1968, which means it was likely written in late 1967/early 1968, and which I just ordered from Amazon recently) has the identical transcript, except for one word: "invalid" (instead of "inviolate"). 

FWIW: White--who died many years ago--was the senior writer on the CBS program. So he took what he was given, and then wrote the script.  And his book, by the way, is really good. It documents the path he took in arriving at the conclusion that the Warren Report just had to be correct. ("Should we NOW believe the Warren Report?" was the title). Of course, White had no idea that there was a pile of evidence that the autopsy had been falsified (as a document); with the one published in the Warren Report being the third version (as documented in Horne's book); or worse, that JFK's body had been altered prior to autopsy (my thesis, as originally published in Best Evidence, first published in January 1981; and with 3 different publishers after that. And there will be another publisher, plus an e-book, coming).

IMHO: The persons responsible for  "playing around" with the audio record are Dan Rather (who produced the CBS programs) and Eddie Baker (who conducted the original 1966 interview). Anyone reading this please note: There weren't any  gremlins who fooled around with this record. There were real people who sat at editing machinery and --whatever the rationale provided--wanted  to make the word "inviolate" go away, and make it sound like (or close to) "invalid."  (And, unfortunately, they succeeded in fuzzing up this issue). But remember what was said years ago, "Truth is the daughter of time," and that's what's going to happen in this case.

DSL; 4/2/2018; 4:40 PM PDT

Mr. Lifton, the nice people at Nashville Public Library scanned that 1/17/1967 Banner article. https://drive.google.com/open?id=14oRjrE9d-pjxSpvEpHBwqlYuDyNiPFpZ

Edited by Micah Mileto

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On 4/2/2018 at 7:52 PM, David Lifton said:

Andrew Prutsok:  Thanks for finding and distributing this article about Dr. Dave Stewart.  And to Paul Rigby for also distributing it.  I am working with an archivist in Tennessee attempting to locate the major  article in the Nashville Banner that --I believe (based on 30 year old recollection, was a front page item)--preceded this one. In the article that I vividly remember, and which is (unfortunately) located in a file in a storage box, Dr. Stewart's main point was that (based on conversations with Perry on 11/22)  Dr. Perry did not have to make an incision, and simply "pushed the tube" through the pre-existing bullet hole (something along those lines).  I carefully photocopied, and filed that Nashville Banner article; unfortunately, its in "storage."  But that article led to my original interest in Dr. Stewart, who I interviewed in detail by phone in 1982, and then came the hour long (at least)  professionally filmed interview at his home in Tennessee (with Pat Valentino present) in June of 1989; and then  (one or two days later) the multi-hour visit with Groden at his home in Media, PA (alng with a multi-hour filmed interview of Groden) at which time (but not during our actual interview, with the camera running) he played for us an excellent 3/4" copy of the Perry interview, by Barker, in which Perry clearly and unequivocally stated that he left the wound "inviolate.".  I'm postponing further comment on all this until I can (hopefully) locate the original article in the Nashville Banner.

With one exception: Pat Valentino has pointed out another possibility (and I hadn't thought of this until recently): That Groden's 3/4" video of Perry--a very special item that he had "obtained" from someone at CBS, and very early on--was   so clear compared to what's available today (via the Internet) --and which is "muddled" and is subject to interpretation as to which word was being spoken (i.e., "inviolate" or "invalid") that  its entirely possible that there was further hanky panky with the audio record of this interview in the years following.  In other words, there is the possibility that Groden obtained his very special (and very clear) 3/4" copy of the CBS tape (which he played for us in June 1989, but obviously had possessed for many years previously); and then came another round of messing around with that tape, perhaps (for example) in connection with the 1993 CBS documentary on JFK's assassination produced by Dan Rather in 1993.

So among all the things that Groden may have "obtained" and stored away --somewhere--is this very special (and very early) copy of the Barker/Perry interview, in which the word "inviolate" is clearly (and quite unequivocally) audible.

  It is pretty obvious that this particular sentence that Perry spoke received some special attention (over the years) since the official CBS transcript that I received from CBS in New York back in 1967 (and which is on file at the Gerald Ford library) uses the word "inviolate", whereas Steve White's book (which was published in 1968, which means it was likely written in late 1967/early 1968, and which I just ordered from Amazon recently) has the identical transcript, except for one word: "invalid" (instead of "inviolate"). 

FWIW: White--who died many years ago--was the senior writer on the CBS program. So he took what he was given, and then wrote the script.  And his book, by the way, is really good. It documents the path he took in arriving at the conclusion that the Warren Report just had to be correct. ("Should we NOW believe the Warren Report?" was the title). Of course, White had no idea that there was a pile of evidence that the autopsy had been falsified (as a document); with the one published in the Warren Report being the third version (as documented in Horne's book); or worse, that JFK's body had been altered prior to autopsy (my thesis, as originally published in Best Evidence, first published in January 1981; and with 3 different publishers after that. And there will be another publisher, plus an e-book, coming).

IMHO: The persons responsible for  "playing around" with the audio record are Dan Rather (who produced the CBS programs) and Eddie Baker (who conducted the original 1966 interview). Anyone reading this please note: There weren't any  gremlins who fooled around with this record. There were real people who sat at editing machinery and --whatever the rationale provided--wanted  to make the word "inviolate" go away, and make it sound like (or close to) "invalid."  (And, unfortunately, they succeeded in fuzzing up this issue). But remember what was said years ago, "Truth is the daughter of time," and that's what's going to happen in this case.

DSL; 4/2/2018; 4:40 PM PDT

full transcript, Nashville Banner, 1/17/1967:

 

Doctors Believed President Shot In Forehead: Physician

 

by Lewis Williams, Banner State Editor

 

Physicians at Parkland Memorial Hospital, Dallas, thought President John Kennedy had been struck in the left forehead by a bullet, a Gallatin doctor told THE BANNER today.

 

Dr. David Stewart, who moved to Gallatin a year ago from Dallas, where he served his residency in Parkland Hospital, said doctors who administered aid to the President there thought a bullet had struck him in the frontal part of the head "behind the hairline" and had caused the massive damage to the back of the victim's head.

 

"They were working frantically, of course, and nobody had time to make an extensive examination. There was some talk about that (apparent wound) but we never heard any more about it later on." Dr. Stewart said.

 

Stewart, a Gallatin native who served internship at Nashville General Hospital in 1959 and 1960 and was in the Air Force two years before going to Dallas' Parkland Hospital, said he was not in the emergency room when the President was brought there with Texas Gov. John Connally.

 

"I was upstairs in the operating room at the time and later helped care for Connally when they brought him up", he said "but I remember all the excitement just like it was yesterday. We got a call they were bringing the President there and that he was wounded and to 'get ready'. We just stood around waiting to see if it was true or whether it was a crank call.. there wasn't anything to get ready; we were always ready for emergencies."

 

The much-discussed and debated throat wound, which the Warren Commission said was an exit wound and many critics insist was an entrance wound, was used as a hole for insertion of a breathing tube, Stewart said, but "no incision was made."

 

Warren Commission conclusions inferred that doctors at the hospital performed a tracheotomy, thus obliterating the wound to such an extent it could not positively be identified as an entrance or an exit wound (Parkland doctors reported immediately after the assassination it was an entrance wound).

 

Dr. Stewart, however, quoted associates at the hospital as saying no tracheotomy was performed. "The hole was there and they just used it as it was to insert the tube," he declared. "It was not necessary to make an incision at all."

 

Dr. Stewart admitted he had no "first hand knowledge" of the President's wounds.

 

"I can't testify about these things, but they all came from my friends there and I pretty well accept them to be true. I know they have covered up some things and it makes me wonder if they havean't done the same thing about others..."

 

Dr. Stewart quoted a friend, Dr. James Corrico, who worked on the President's body at the hospital, as saying the President's personal physician handed him a quantity of the drug, Solu-Cortes, a cortisone-like medication, and told him "to put it into the IV (intravenous solution). "That's a drug usually given to Addison's Disease patients," Stewart said, "not gunshot victims."

 

The doctor continued: "A lot of us were concerned about the autopsy. The Dallas County coroner (Dr. Earl Rose) was planning an autopsy and we were told he had a sub-machinegun thrown on him and told not to touch the body. It's the law there that anyone- a hobo up to the President- who is killed must be given an autopsy before the body is taken from the county."

 

Dr. Stewart said he was also at the hospital when Lee Oswald was shot.

 

"They brought him in in desperate straits and he died about an hour later without saying a word," the doctor stated. "He was given 14 pints of blood and vigorous surgical treatment, but died from blood loss shock." The bullet fired by Jack Ruby penetrated Oswald's left lung, spleen and left kidney, he added.

 

Asked about the controversial "pristine" bullet the Warren Commission claimed passed through the President, struck Gov. Connally in the back, smashed his wrist and then buried itself in his left thigh, the Gallatin physician said, "I haven't seen the bullet, of course, but it wouldn't have been very pristine. The X-rays showed fragments of lead in the governor's thigh, for one thing."

 

"It leads me to wonder, Stewart said, "I would like to see someone penetrate al the subterfuge and the smokescreens thrown up about all this. I think they would do much better to start counting motives than bullets. I lived in Dallas four years and the people there are no different than anywhere else; some of them are bad, but most of them are good people and the 'climate of hate' that has been kicked around so much just didn't exist."

 

Dr. Stewart has high in his praise for three articles by Henry J. Taylor published recently in THE BANNER pointing out that Oswald was not, as he has been pictured, a "nut," but a hard, dedicated Communist.

 

"I wish Mr. Taylor would be encouraged to do more along this line," the doctor continued. "Had this knowledge been widely accepted three years ago, I'm certain that the whole course of American history would have been changed. However, it still isn't too late for adequate understanding to be of value."

 

Several Parkland Hospital physicians, nurses and witnesses to the assassination indicated, in statements to reporters at the time of the investigation of in actual testimony before the Warren Commission, that the President sustained a frontal wound in the upper left octant of the head. This theory was ignited by the commission itself and not mentioned in the autopsy report from Bethesda Naval Hospital.

 

Two witnesses to the shooting, James Altgrens and Norman Simalis, both near the President's car, made statements they saw a wound on the left forehead.

 

Dr. Robert McClelland of Parkland Hospital stated in a written report that death "was due to a massive head and brain injury from a gunshot wound IN THE LEFT TEMPLE." Doctors Geisecke and Jenkins told the commission they "noticed a left frontal wound" and several other Parkland physicians and a nurse who attended the doctors described a similar wound. Father Oscar L. Huber, pastor of Holy Trinity Catholic Church, Dallas, who administered last rites over the President,was quoted as saying he "noticed a terrible wound over his left eye."

 

Most of the physicians questioned by the commission were of the opinion that the throat wound was an entrance wound and that the massive damage to the back of the President's head was an exit wound.

 

Analysis of the famed Zapruder film of the assassination indicated the President was knocked backward and to the left by the impact of one bullet, defying Newton's law of conservation of momentum, if all shots had been fired from the rear as the commission claimed. Tissue from the victim's head splattered a motorcycle officer riding behind the car.

 

No less than 64 witnesses to the shooting claimed shots were fired from the "grassy knoll" in front of the Presidential car. Some of them claimed to have seen smoke rising from the area and at least two testified they smelled gunpowder in the vicinity, where officers converged when the shots were fired.

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I think it's a strong possibility that the coffin that left

Parkland and caused a heated confrontation in the hallway

with guns drawn to prevent the Dallas medical examiner

from doing an autopsy was empty and that the body

had been removed through a tunnel. It was worth a gun

battle with Mrs. Kennedy present to prevent the coffin

being taken by Dr. Rose, as was legally required, because

that would have exposed the conspiracy. I write about

this in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Lifton seems not to have

considered this possibility, which would have facilitated

the body alteration.

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10 minutes ago, Joseph McBride said:

I think it's a strong possibility that the coffin that left

Parkland and caused a heated confrontation in the hallway

with guns drawn to prevent the Dallas medical examiner

from doing an autopsy was empty and that the body

had been removed through a tunnel. It was worth a gun

battle with Mrs. Kennedy present to prevent the coffin

being taken by Dr. Rose, as was legally required, because

that would have exposed the conspiracy. I write about

this in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Lifton seems not to have

considered this possibility, which would have facilitated

the body alteration.

What tunnel?

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2 minutes ago, Micah Mileto said:

What tunnel?

 I think he speaks of a tunnel path in Parkland. I believe Doug Horne speaks about this as well.

 

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I discuss all the details in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. The tunnel is discussed in the WC 26 volumes as well in

a Nov. 27, 1963, report by Parkland Hospital administrator Charles Jack Price on his activities on Nov. 22.

Edited by Joseph McBride

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6 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

What tunnel?

The elevator went up from the "first" or ER floor, and it went down a floor.  To a loading dock or hallway that led to one.  If memory serves.

I thought I read something many years ago about LBJ exiting Parkland this way also.

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On 11/25/2019 at 9:29 PM, Joseph McBride said:

I discuss all the details in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. The tunnel is discussed in the WC 26 volumes as well in

a Nov. 27, 1963, report by Parkland Hospital administrator Charles Jack Price on his activities on Nov. 22.

Joseph, I found this intriguing when I first read it years back, was going to re read it.  You mention Parkland on over a dozen pages in the end notes.  Wondering if you remember which ones regarding this, seems important to me.  

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OT: I remember I ordered the book FINAL CHARADE back in 2001 in an Austrian book shop. It was listed in the computer as about to be published in a few weeks. A month later it disappeared from the computer.  20 years later, were is it? The book-project FINAL CHARADE is one of the most funny things in the JFK assassination mess. 

KK

Regarding the coffin. I think the coffin with Kennedys remains was hijacked in front of the Bethesda Tower, as Hugh Clark described it in an interview with Brent Holland in THIS video at 23min54sec ... after the ambulance disappeared into the dark grounds of Bethesda, there was time enough for the conspirators to perform their first autopsy, which was rather a body stripping to blame Oswald. (No need to hijack the coffin in Dallas, for a secret tunnel and stuff like that ... IMO) 

Edited by Karl Kinaski

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On 11/25/2019 at 5:05 PM, Joseph McBride said:

I think it's a strong possibility that the coffin that left

Parkland and caused a heated confrontation in the hallway

with guns drawn to prevent the Dallas medical examiner

from doing an autopsy was empty and that the body

had been removed through a tunnel. It was worth a gun

battle with Mrs. Kennedy present to prevent the coffin

being taken by Dr. Rose, as was legally required, because

that would have exposed the conspiracy. I write about

this in INTO THE NIGHTMARE. Lifton seems not to have

considered this possibility, which would have facilitated

the body alteration.

I have not been aware of tunnels at Parkland.  However, at some time in my long past here, I asked David Lifton, in a thread or a PM, whether the body could have been removed from the coffin at Parkland and secreted out, instead of being removed from the coffin aboard AF-1.  I mentioned that this scenario seemed to provide a premier reason why the SS would refuse a Texas autopsy and remove the coffin with threats and violence -- they couldn't afford to have that coffin opened. 

I believe that Lifton responded that Dr. Rose did not let the coffin out of his sight from the time it was closed. 

I'll try to find the post tomorrow.  If we communicated in a PM, I hope I'm not violating any confidence with David Lifton. 

David, would you care to weigh in on this matter once again?

Edited by David Andrews

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