Steven Hager: The Two Oswalds

[Tom Hume]

Maybe it’s just me, but there seem to be a disproportionate number of possible “MC” or “CM” connections to Lee Harvey Oswald.

“MINOX CAMERA”  

“MARINE CORPS”

“MANNLICHER CARCANO”

“MEXICO CITY”

“CARLOS MARCELLO”

“MICKEY COHEN”

“CORD MEYER”

“MERCURY COMET”

“MORRIS CHILDS”

“MONTREAL CANADA”

“MARGUERITE CLAVERIE”

“CARL MATHER”

“MANCHURIAN CANDIDATE”

To an anagrammer, some of these appear to be related. For example, “Cord Meyer” anagrams to:

“YO, RED MERC”

It was a red Mercury Comet that Oswald, or an Oswald impersonator, wildly test drove shortly before the assassination. “RED MERCURY COMET” anagrams to:

“CORD MEYER, MC tour"

 “MINOX CAMERA” anagrams to:

“AMERICAN MO: X”

Can anyone think of any more “CM” or “MC”, connections?

 

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Mathias Baumann]

23 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

It's hard to be definitive about this, Mathias, because the Minox camera now in the JFK Collection at NARA has been filled with some sort of heavy substance, apparently cementing it shut. The case of this camera needs to slide open both to take a picture or to see the serial number.  John reports it feels MUCH heavier than his own similar Minox camera.

Are you sure Webster and Oswald's identities were merged by CIA, or were there just striking similarities in their Russian trips?  Webster told Dick Russell, by the way, that he and Marina spoke ENGLISH in Russia.  

From Harvey and Lee....

NOTE: In a 1997 interview Robert Webster told JFK researcher and author Dick Russell that he met Marina Prusakova in Moscow in the summer of 1959 and spoke with her in English. Webster said that Marina spoke English well, but with a heavy accent.

A year after Webster was sent to Leningrad by the Soviet Government, 400 miles from Moscow, he met Marina again shortly after he applied for an exit visa so that he could return to the US. ^{[interview of Robert Webster by Dick Russell at Cape Cod, MA. 1997]}

Marina's friend in Dallas, Katya Ford, said that when she asked Marina why Oswald went to Russia, Marina told her that he worked for the Rand Corporation and helped set up the American exhibit at the World Trade Exposition in Moscow^{.[WC Document 5,p. 259; FBI interview of Katherine Ford by SA James P. Hosty, 11/24/63]} Marina had momentarily confused Harvey Oswald with Robert Webster, the 1st US "defector," whom she met in Moscow (1959) and again in Leningrad (1960).

It is not a coincidence that both Webster and Oswald "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the Spring of 1962. These US "defectors," acting in perfect harmony, were both working for the CIA.

--From Harvey and Lee, p. 799, Copyright © 2003 by John Armstrong

 

 

Jim,

to answer your question:

 

"One story illustrates how strong this resemblance was between Oswald and Webster. Robert Webster met Oswald’s future wife Marina Prusakova at the American Exhibition held in Moscow during the summer of 1959. They saw each other again in 1960. Curiously, Marina spoke English to Webster, while she only spoke Russian when she came to the United States with Oswald.[ 2 ] On one occasion, Marina even confused Webster with Oswald. Webster and Oswald were used to loosen Soviet tongues, and they may have never realized it.

Marina wasn’t the only woman confused by the two men. In the 1990s, the Assassination Records Review Board interviewed Joan Hallett, the widow of the former naval attaché at the American Embassy in Moscow. Hallett remembered seeing Oswald at the Embassy on September 5, right at the end of the American Exhibition. No one could understand the discrepancy between her strong and clear recollection and the September 5 date. The solution is simple - Hallett was mistaking Webster for Oswald. Webster disappeared on 9/10/59 – six days after the Exhibition ended. Oswald didn't arrive in Moscow until a month later.

[...]

The physical differences between Oswald and Webster were blended for molehunt purposes

The following discussion is important because it shows the game that was played by blending the identities of Oswald and Webster. I am convinced Fain misrepresented some of the “minor details” that Marguerite Oswald told him, as part of an approved CI-SIG operation conducted for molehunt purposes by Angleton’s division. Keep in mind that Angleton’s job was to prevent penetration of the CIA, and he had been focused on the Soviet branch since the blowing of the Popov operation.

Here’s Marguerite’s supposed description of Lee to Fain: "5' 10", 165 lbs., light brown and wavy hair, blue eyes". Except for the hair color, this is a description of Robert Webster, not Oswald. Webster's job application in 1957 describes him as five feet ten, 166, blond hair, blue eyes.

Oswald’s weight never got anywhere close to Webster’s 165 pounds. Although Oswald was known to exaggerate and write that he weighed 150 or 160 on two separate occasions, Oswald’s documented weight for the last seven years of his life varied between 131-140 pounds.[ 23 ]

Webster's hair was slightly wavy. Oswald also had slightly wavy hair. However, in contrast to Webster’s 5 feet, 10 inches, Oswald's height was generally described as 5 feet, 9 inches, as shown in this photo.

After Fain’s memo, Oswald's height is only described as 5' 10" in one fateful event - a critical memo about an Oswald sighting in Mexico City shortly before the assassination, with Egerter as an acknowledged co-author. As we will see, the way that Oswald was described in Mexico City will take us to the heart of the drama in Dallas.

Oswald exaggerated his height to 5 feet, 11 inches starting with his application to the Switzerland college in March 1959 and continuing until his return from the Soviet Union. After his return, Oswald reported himself as 5 feet, 9 inches to prospective employers…except when dealing with government officials, where he described himself as 5 foot 11. This maneuver kept his records with the government consistent. It doesn’t prove that Oswald was a government spy. It indicates that Oswald was a spy in his own mind, and would exaggerate his own description. There is no record that Oswald ever described himself as “5 foot 10, 165”.[ 24 ] CI-SIG may have noticed that Oswald was toying with his own measurements, which may have elevated him in their eyes as a prime candidate to have his biographical data used in a molehunt.

This phony description of Oswald as “5 foot 10, 165” came back into play three years later. In Mexico City, Oswald tried again to get an instant visa – this time, to visit Cuba and the Soviet Union. On October 10, 1963, Egerter was the co-author of two memos describing a man known as “Lee Henry Oswald” – the name that Egerter had used for him back during his time in the Soviet Union.

The first memo describes Oswald with the blended/Webster description from his time in the USSR...Five feet ten, 165, hair is light brown and wavy, eyes blue. (Memo 1, directed to Mexico City)

The second memo blends this description with the photo of a six foot man who was a probable KGB officer. Six feet, receding hairline, age 35, athletic build. (Memo 2, directed to the headquarters of the FBI, State Dept., and Navy - and note that the KGB officer was 35 years old and well built.)

Egerter prepared these two memos with two different descriptions of Oswald that went to different agencies. One said that he was a defector seeking to re-enter the US. The other one, responding to the Mexico City station, added that the realities of life in the USSR had a "maturing effect" on Oswald. The reasons why will be explored in the Mexico City chapter.

My conclusion about the blending of their identities was to get the Soviets to talk about Webster when Oswald was on the scene, since they looked so similar. Webster was used in a dangle designed to ensure that US defense capabilities were not being undercut by the Soviets in the plastics and fiberglass fields. What the US got from the Webster operation was peace of mind. The US was ten years ahead in these areas.

Similarly, Soviets who knew the two men might talk about Oswald when Webster was on the scene. In either instance, more intelligence would be obtained. After the downing of the U-2 on May 1, 1960, Oswald the man had little value in any dangle for the Soviets. It was a good time for Egerter and Fain to turn to Oswald’s file for use in a molehunt."

Bill Simpich, State Secret: https://www.maryferrell.org/pages/State_Secret_Chapter1.html

 

About Marina Prusakova: I wonder why she felt attracted to American defectors. Is it possible she saw them as a way to leave Russia and start a new life in the West? For all I know it was not Marina's idea to leave for America, but Oswald's. So I guess it is more likely she was some sort of informer. That might also explain why she was given consent to leave Russia.

[David Josephs]

56 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

About Marina Prusakova: I wonder why she felt attracted to American defectors

HoneyTrap

It was 1964, six years after the KGB had staged one of its long-running and most elaborate honey traps in Moscow against a Western diplomat. The operation involved over 100 officers and agents of the KGB including, incognito, the head of the Second Chief Directorate, the branch responsible for domestic surveillance and the monitoring or recruitment of foreigners inside the Soviet Union.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/03/12/the-history-of-the-honey-trap/

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Mathias,

Thank you for your post.  I’m enjoying our discussion.

Oswald’s height is listed at 5’ 11” (a total of 71 inches) in nearly as many documents at the National Archives as list his shorter, 5’ 9” height, including some in which his height would have been measured. 

For example, his 9/3/59 Marine Corps medical report and well as his 10/12/59 Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge BOTH list his height at 5’ 11” and his weight as 150 lbs.  Are we really to believe that USMC allows soldiers to “exaggerate” their heights like that?   

Here’s the September ‘59 report:

 

And here’s the October ‘59 report:

 

The same 5’ 11” height is listed on LHO’s 1959 passport, his 1963 passport, his 9/14/59 Selective Service Registration card, and many other places.  As I said, the public record contains nearly as many references to a 5” 11” Oswald as to a 5’  9” Oswald.  Strikes me as evidence that two different people were sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald.  I sincerely doubt the Agency reached back to fake all these documents on a mole hunt, or that Oswald would be allowed to exaggerate his height and weight on his USMC medical records.

I’ll have more to say ASAP about letting the CIA off the hook by saying Oswald was a spy “in his own mind.”  In my opinion, at least, the evidence after more than 50 years strongly suggests otherwise.

[Mathias Baumann]

22 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mathias,

Thank you for your post.  I’m enjoying our discussion.

Oswald’s height is listed at 5’ 11” (a total of 71 inches) in nearly as many documents at the National Archives as list his shorter, 5’ 9” height, including some in which his height would have been measured. 

For example, his 9/3/59 Marine Corps medical report and well as his 10/12/59 Armed Forces Report of Transfer or Discharge BOTH list his height at 5’ 11” and his weight as 150 lbs.  Are we really to believe that USMC allows soldiers to “exaggerate” their heights like that?   

Here’s the September ‘59 report:

 

And here’s the October ‘59 report:

 

The same 5’ 11” height is listed on LHO’s 1959 passport, his 1963 passport, his 9/14/59 Selective Service Registration card, and many other places.  As I said, the public record contains nearly as many references to a 5” 11” Oswald as to a 5’  9” Oswald.  Strikes me as evidence that two different people were sharing the identity of Lee Harvey Oswald.  I sincerely doubt the Agency reached back to fake all these documents on a mole hunt, or that Oswald would be allowed to exaggerate his height and weight on his USMC medical records.

I’ll have more to say ASAP about letting the CIA off the hook by saying Oswald was a spy “in his own mind.”  In my opinion, at least, the evidence after more than 50 years strongly suggests otherwise.

Jim,

I'm also enjoying this conversation, I find it very enlightening 

When Oswald applied for a job in New Orleans in the spring of 1963 he also gave his height as 5’ 9”, which coincidentally is the height of a certain Kerry Thornley.

I think Thornley is a deeply suspicious character. By his own admission he knew Guy Banister and David Ferrie, became friends with John Roselli years later, wrote a book about Oswald BEFORE the assassination... and he was in New Orleans at the time of the Bolton Ford incident and was one of the few people who knew that Oswald was living in Russia at that time. But somehow I just don't know where exactly he might fit in. What do you make of him?

 

On ‎01‎.‎08‎.‎2017 at 5:03 PM, David Josephs said:

HoneyTrap

It was 1964, six years after the KGB had staged one of its long-running and most elaborate honey traps in Moscow against a Western diplomat. The operation involved over 100 officers and agents of the KGB including, incognito, the head of the Second Chief Directorate, the branch responsible for domestic surveillance and the monitoring or recruitment of foreigners inside the Soviet Union.

http://foreignpolicy.com/2010/03/12/the-history-of-the-honey-trap/

 

 

Marina being a KGB informer would explain a lot, but would she really have been of much use being a stay-at-home mom under FBI surveillance?

Also, the KGB might not have been all that interested in Oswald after all:

http://www.russianbooks.org/oswald/kgb.htm

[David Josephs]

20 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Marina being a KGB informer would explain a lot, but would she really have been of much use being a stay-at-home mom under FBI surveillance?

Also, the KGB might not have been all that interested in Oswald after all:

"Never believe anything the government says until it has been officially denied"    So, no... the KBG would no tbe interested in 1 of only a handful of US citizens in their country?

Sorry MB, I don't buy it.

If the KBG linked this man to CIA/Military Intel as a spy - which I believe they did, Marina's purpose is fairly clear... what can you learn about the movements and activities of a USA Intel asset?  What does the FBI/CIA ask of a returning citizen?  The link to Webster would also suggest the KGB was more aware of the US goings-on than they let on...  that Marina would be in contact with both these men is pretty remarkable.

http://digitalcollections.baylor.edu/cdm/ref/collection/po-arm/id/22367 is the link to Armstrong's Mohamed Reggab notebook.  He has some very interesting things to say.

One of them being that in 1961 Marina was working as a punch card operator for a Business Machine Firm.  This after 4 years of Pharmacy school?
He also goes on to say that at these "Russian Student Dances" for foreign students were severely underpopulated with women so "Moscow working girls were brought in for these dances"

The way he says he treats Marina, it is apparent to me he thinks Marina may have been one of these girls, yet he goes out of his way to deny it (Never believe it until it's been officially denied).    

DJ

 

[Sandy Larsen]

Quote

"...Oswald was a spy 'in his own mind.'” 

To anybody who doubts Oswald was a CIA spy . . . .

In this article regarding the recent release of JFK assassination documents, Dr. John Newman is quoted as saying

"And in the 20 years that have passed since [the first release of documents], our understanding of the Kennedy assassinations has moved significantly. My latest book contains definitive proof that Lee Harvey Oswald's defection to the Soviet Union was a false defection, and it was part of a larger hunt for a mole inside of the CIA. A Soviet mole."

A false defector would be an intelligence agent, probably of the CIA.

Lest you think Dr. Newman is just some average joe with an opinion to share, consider his credentials:

• He's a retired major in the United States Army.
• He was an intelligence analyst for twenty years.
• He served as executive assistant to the director of the National Security Agency.
• He was a professor at the University of Maryland Honors College for twenty years.
• He is currently an adjunct professor of political science at James Madison University.

 

[Mathias Baumann]

Sandy and David,

I think you cannot both be right at the same time. Because if BOTH Marina and Lee had been spies, don't you think one of them would've found out about the other sooner or later?

And I must admit I find it hard to see Oswald as some sort of spy. I think that's what he wanted to be in his imagination. Others might have taken advantage of his naivety and used him as an agent provacateur or a "patsy", but for a real intelligence operative his whole lifestyle and demeanor seems to be too conspicuous, don't you think? He stuck out like a sore thumb wherever he went.

Marina on the other hand I can imagine pretty well eavesdropping on fellow Russian émigrés. Maybe that was the reason she was allowed to leave for America? To spy on the Russian community there? Because that was in fact one of the KGB's primary objectives (see the link in my post above).

@ Sandy: Thanks for that link. I enjoyed "Oswald and the CIA" very much. I'm glad to see that John Newman has published some new material. I hope I'll soon have some spare time to study it.

Edited August 3, 2017 by Mathias Baumann

[David Josephs]

Mathias,

I can appreciate a gut feeling, yet there is nothing factual that precludes both from being intel assets.  Marina being in the perfect place to silently observe and report. But then again, maybe not...  I don't know that it matters in the overall scheme of things - Marina that is. 

Ordinary everyday people do not have Minox cameras with serial numbers that were never released to the public and only available to the CIA.
Starting when he arrived in New Orleans in mid 1963, Oswald was playing both sides of the Cuban issue via Banister.

The ease with which Oswald returns to the US and is given jobs that certainly do not match his qualifications or his status as a returned defector/communist.
Especially the Jaggers job.

From my POV, in 1963 it appears everyone was watching everyone else.  The fringe groups were filled with informants, the Post Offices, IN&S, everywhere one looked people were put into position to inform upon or follow the direction of others with the goal of uncovering communists. 

The other thing that strikes me as obvious is - Follow the Money.  The amounts collected and spent over the years simply do not match...  Oswald is in possession of much more cash than his income and expenses allow.  With a $200/month stipend he virtually doubled his income.

At the very least we can say he was being manipulated.  As fore the KGB, like the CIA/FBI...  don't believe it until they officially deny it.

DJ

[Jim Hargrove]

Following is my gradually expanding list of reasons clearly suggesting "Lee Harvey Oswald" was a CIA spy.  Thanks to David Andrews for suggesting points 20 & 21 below.  The list will probably also be expanded based on observations by Paul Bleau in his new article on KennedysandKing.com.

 

22 Facts Indicating Oswald Was a CIA Spy

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott testified that he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.”

2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963.

3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s.

4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962.

5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 

6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA agent who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child.

7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and probably monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death.

8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE.

9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA.

10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination.

11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report.

12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots.

13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear.

14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story.

15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, but the CIA ignored his warnings.

16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.”  For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations.

17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs….

18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again!

19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.”

20. He associated with US intel-friendly figures such as George DeMohrenschildt, Michael Paine, Ruth Paine, Guy Banister, David Ferrie and others.

21. His alleged movements after the assassination suggest tradecraft-like behavior, including his movements at the Texas Theater seeking a "contact" and apparently carrying two torn-in-half dollar bills.

22. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, as evidenced by Arthur Krock's infamous defense of the Agency in the Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times. “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.

[Jim Hargrove]

4 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Sandy and David,

I think you cannot both be right at the same time. Because if BOTH Marina and Lee had been spies, don't you think one of them would've found out about the other sooner or later?

Hi, Mathias,

It’s funny how instincts work.  I’ve felt for a decade or more that Mr. and Mrs. Oswald were both spooks... sort of spying on each other.  He often pretended he didn’t speak Russian, and she seemed to indicate she didn’t speak much English.  If it all didn’t end in such tragedy, it would almost be funny.  My belief is that they suspected each other as being spies from the very beginning, and told their respective handlers so.

If she wasn’t associated with Russian intel, I can’t imagine them letting her out of the Soviet Union.  And if her husband hadn’t been an American spy, I can’t imagine State would have approved a passport so he could travel in 1963, AGAIN, to communist countries like Cuba and Russia.  This was still the height of the Cold War.  Can you imagine a civilian with his record (unpunished for promising to give the enemy military secrets and perhaps doing so) being allowed to return to enemy nations?

Did you ever see an old movie... a great satire... called "The President's Analyst?"  Whenever I think of Boris and Natasha, I mean Harvey and Marina, I often think of that movie.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

22 Facts Indicating Oswald Was a CIA Spy

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/05/the-maurice-bishop-story.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/03/james-wilcott.html

https://reopenkennedycase.forumotion.net/t1389-hargrove-s-20-alternative-facts-for-those-who-prefer-their-conspiracies-devoid-of-any-reality

 

[Jim Hargrove]

If anyone actually reads the targets of Mr. Parnell's links above and finds an argument worthy of discussion, please post the argument here.

[Mathias Baumann]

Tracy,

some of the rebuttals in your last link are fairly convincing, others not so much. Surely hearsay coming from a disgruntled ex-employee should be viewed with caution.

But at a second glance some others lack substance, such as:

Quote

8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE.

Let me get this straight. LHO was a CIA agent trying to infiltrate a CIA sponsored Cuban exile group? You guys are just downright scary. 

There's of course a lot more to this. Oswald's leafletting in New Orleans took place at a time when both the CIA and FBI were planning a smear campaign against the Fairplay for Cuba Committee. The radio debate in which Oswald was confronted with his time in Russia was definitely staged to expose him as a communist sympathizer and a Soviet stooge.

We also know that the FPCC was one of David Attlee Phillips primary targets. And the same David Attlee Phillips later tried to plant false stories linking Oswald to the KGB and Fidel Castro and was caught repeatedly lying to the HSCA about the circumstances of Oswald's trip to Mexico.

And then there's of course the curious fact that the Mexico City station was deliberately kept in the dark about Oswald's actions in New Orleans and that counterintelligence had a top secret file on Oswald... And it was Joannides' job to make sure that a lid was kept on all of this.

 

Quote

10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination.

And your proof that this is linked to an "Oswald Project" is?

I think this is one of the most powerful pieces of evidence that Oswald part of a bigger plot. It was almost right after Oswald had been taken off the list that things got into motion. Look at this timeline:

October 3, 1963: Oswald returns to Dallas.

October 8, 1963: Gheesling takes Oswald off the FBI's watch list - for reasons unknown.

October 10, 1963: a memo is created, compiling the latest information on Oswald http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1565#relPageId=2&tab=page. Only six senior CIA officers had access to it. http://jfkfacts.org/did-the-cia-track-oswald-before-jfk-was-killed/

October 15, 1963: Oswald gets the job at the Book Depository. Rents a room under a false name.

So clearly the plotters had access to this kind of information, which indicates that the plot involved people within the intelligence community. With Oswald still being on the watch list they could not reasonably expect the assassination to succeed. So they either had to know that Oswald was off the list or maybe even possessed the influence to get him off it.

And knowledge of Oswald's contact with Kostikov (plus the fact that Kostikov was a KGB terror agent) was the decisive factor in choosing Oswald in the first place.

My personal hunch is that the conspirators had also learned about Oswald's failed assassination attempt on General Walker. George de Mohrenschildt may have been their source. We know he had wide-ranging intelligence connections. So the plotters knew Oswald was a violent person that could be incited to commit political murder.

 

 

16 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Hi, Mathias,

It’s funny how instincts work.  I’ve felt for a decade or more that Mr. and Mrs. Oswald were both spooks... sort of spying on each other.  He often pretended he didn’t speak Russian, and she seemed to indicate she didn’t speak much English.  If it all didn’t end in such tragedy, it would almost be funny.  My belief is that they suspected each other as being spies from the very beginning, and told their respective handlers so.

If she wasn’t associated with Russian intel, I can’t imagine them letting her out of the Soviet Union.  And if her husband hadn’t been an American spy, I can’t imagine State would have approved a passport so he could travel in 1963, AGAIN, to communist countries like Cuba and Russia.  This was still the height of the Cold War.  Can you imagine a civilian with his record (unpunished for promising to give the enemy military secrets and perhaps doing so) being allowed to return to enemy nations?

Did you ever see an old movie... a great satire... called "The President's Analyst?"  Whenever I think of Boris and Natasha, I mean Harvey and Marina, I often think of that movie.

Hello Jim,

no I haven't seen that movie but it surely sounds interesting. I do believe that Oswald had connections to US intelligence, but I think merely saying that Oswals was a "spy" raises more questions than it answers. Such as: Which agency was he working for? ONI, CIA, FBI? What was he used for? A source of intelligence? Agent provocateur? Disinformation agent? A "dangle"?

I that context I have two question for you: First, when Oswald came to Russia he wanted to attend Patrice Lumumba University. Do you know if there was anything special about this University? Could it have been a worthwhile target for US intelligence?

And, secondly, what is your opinion on Kerry Thornley? (Please see my post from Wednesday at 06:48 PM )

Have a nice weekend!

[W. Tracy Parnell]

3 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

some of the rebuttals in your last link are fairly convincing, others not so much. Surely hearsay coming from a disgruntled ex-employee should be viewed with caution.

But at a second glance some others lack substance, such as:

I'll try and keep an eye on his site to see if Parker wants to respond. He is no longer a member here.