Steven Hager: The Two Oswalds

[Sandy Larsen]

14 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Allen Felde knew Harvey Oswald through much of his early USMC time, but it's a complex subject starting with what appears to be two different names in USMC records for who John is convinced is the same fellow. The two names are Alexander D. Felde and Allen R. Felde.

Jim (or David),

David Josephs wrote the following in this 2015 post:

"The problem with FELDE is that for some reason his USMC SN# is used for both Alexander D and Allen R, per Tom's work."

So apparently some "Tom" showed that both Alexander D. Felde and Allen R. Felde used the same USMC serial number. This pretty much guarantees the two were the same. Either that or one was the other's doppelganger.

Do you know where Tom's work is? His information should be in John's book and Jim's website.

If they were indeed the same person,I have a hard time believing that the USMC got the name wrong for such a long time. I'm inclined to believe there was some sort of intelligence activity going on. Either that or Felde was trying hide but nevertheless was found by the FBI.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Thanks Jim, especially for posting Allen Felde's affidavit.

So far I have shown (with your help and John's book) that Oswald had at most seven months to learn Russian well enough to impress his date. (Specifically, from the time he left boot camp on January 18, 1957, till the time he set sail for Atsugi on August 22, 1957.) If we knew that Felde's affidavit and the unit diaries were real and not fabricated to hide Oswald's whereabouts (that being in intensive language training), we could subtract several months from that seven. But for now I will leave most that time alone.

On May 2, 1957 Oswald traveled from Jacksonville, Florida to Biloxi, Mississippi in order to take a radar course. The course ended on June 17. I think we can remove this period of time because 1) surely Oswald needed to take the course given that he would later be involved in that kind of work in Japan; and 2) there were witnesses to Oswald attending the course (including Daniel Powers). Oswald was part of a group of six, and they were granted leave from June 20 to July 9. There were witnesses to Oswald taking two-week leaves around that time (Marguerite's neighbor, Lee M. McCracken), and so it's likely Oswald actually did take that leave.

Therefore, Oswald had at most five months to learn Russian well enough to impress his date. (Specifically, from the time he left boot camp on January 18, 1957 till the time he set sail for Atsugi on August 22, 1957. Minus the time he spent at radar school and on leave, from May 1 till July 9.)

Can we whittle off more?

I'll bet we can!  This is a terrific idea, Sandy….  I’m going to spend some time in the next few days going through the relevant pages from the 1956 and 1957 chapters of H&L (and I’ll try read as many of the source docs as I can) looking for more observations from other Marines.  I’m pretty confident, though, that we will not find soldiers talking about “Oswald’s” Russian language abilities prior to Harvey’s time at Santa Ana.  

Somewhere, in the WC Report if memory serves, a writer speculates that Oswald studied Russian while still in Japan, but I don’t think that is borne out by the evidence.  At any rate, I’ll get back to this ASAP.

In the meantime, let’s talk about Felde….

John wrote, “Alexander D. Felde's service number was 1641924, and is between Marine recruits with service numbers 1641923 and 1641927 (Leo C. King, Richard Rasmussen, Peter J. Scifo, and Joseph D. Socha). All of these recruits, including Felde, were from the Milwaukee, Wisconsin area and all en­
listed between October 22nd and October 24th, 1956.” [H&L p. 148]

If the service # of Allen R. Felde is included in H&L, I haven’t found it yet, but I believe Allen was from Wisconsin.  This, among other evidence suggests the two names referred to the same soldier.

Felde is important because he belonged to a group of Marines who in 1957 worked and bunked with HARVEY Oswald while LEE Oswald was demonstrably elsewhere.  The Warren Commission, in a surely deliberate move, did not interview Felde or a number of other soldiers who worked with Harvey for the better part of a year in California, Jacksonville, Biloxi, and Memphis at the same time Lee was in Jacksonville (before Harvey) and then at El Toro and aboard the USS Bexar sailing to Japan.  The WC did, however, interview Marines who barely knew LEE Oswald for a day or two in Japan.

Felde may have thought he was in personal danger.  John tracked him down somewhere out west and indicated that he changed his Social Security number in the late 1980s.  Who does that?

Thanks again, and more to come….
 

[Tom Hume]

Hi Jim,

Somewhere I think you posted both of the Felde's Social Security Numbers but I can’t seem to find them. Could you post them again please?

As I’ve mentioned before, I think Igor Vladimirs Vaganov is your “Lee”, and Igor also had two Social Security Numbers. As soon as I can find them in my notes I’ll post them as an “edit” here.

Thanks,

Tom

[David Josephs]

12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Jim (or David),

David Josephs wrote the following in this 2015 post:

"The problem with FELDE is that for some reason his USMC SN# is used for both Alexander D and Allen R, per Tom's work."

So apparently some "Tom" showed that both Alexander D. Felde and Allen R. Felde used the same USMC serial number. This pretty much guarantees the two were the same. Either that or one was the other's doppelganger.

Do you know where Tom's work is? His information should be in John's book and Jim's website.

If they were indeed the same person,I have a hard time believing that the USMC got the name wrong for such a long time. I'm inclined to believe there was some sort of intelligence activity going on. Either that or Felde was trying hide but nevertheless was found by the FBI.

 

Sandy,

I may have misstated.  It's not that they both have the same #, it's that the WC found the wrong man...

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz3jo6OY_godbnNwX0I1SHNjNHc is a link to a composite.  Google Drive doesn't allow for direct links it seems... or I don't know how to use it correctly.

The WC suggests there were 2 FELDE's.  The one with Harvey Oswald #1641924 and the one they "claimed" was the right man for a bit - #1615775.

By the time they get around to the correct Felde, the report and John Ely's bio is done...  Feld's testimony and exhibit make up a substantial part of the "Omissions and corrections" that John Ely brings to the attention of Jenner and Liebeler.

 

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Tom Hume said:

Hi Jim,

Somewhere I think you posted both of the Felde's Social Security Numbers but I can’t seem to find them. Could you post them again please?

As I’ve mentioned before, I think Igor Vladimirs Vaganov is your “Lee”, and Igor also had two Social Security Numbers. As soon as I can find them in my notes I’ll post them as an “edit” here.

Thanks,

Tom

Tom,

I wouldn't want to publish the SS# of someone who might still be alive.  You're probably thinking of his USMC ID#, but I'm only aware of one.  See earlier in this thread.

[Sandy Larsen]

David,

Thanks for these links related to Oswald's boot camp platoon mate, Allen (or Alexander?) Felde.

https://drive.google.com/open?id=0Bz3jo6OY_godbnNwX0I1SHNjNHc

Here is another related document, provided by Jim:

 

 

Here is what I learn from these documents and Harvey & Lee:

According to USMC Unit Diaries (e.g. #257-56 p. 1521), Oswald's platoon mate was Alexander D. Felde, USMC #1641924. This should be the correct name and serial number.

In the February 21, 1964 issue of Life Magazine, an article on Oswald mentions a few things about Oswald's platoon mate, but refers to him as Allen Felde. It seems likely that either the article got the name wrong or the FBI did when reporting on the article. The FBI subsequently found the Marine Corp record of a man they thought to be this person, a Robert Allen Felde, USMC #1615775. But this turned out to be the wrong Felde... he denied ever knowing Oswald or anything about the Life Magazine article.

So the Allen Felde lead was a wild goose chase, and we are back to the original Alexander D. Felde. Which should be the correct name, as I said earlier.

Later it came to the attention of the FBI that an earlier article mentioning Felde had been published in the November 24, 1963 issue of the Milwaukee Journal. According to the FBI the name of the person in this article was Allen R. Felde. Note how close this wrong name is to the wrong name the FBI had from the Life Magazine article. It's like the FBI screwed up again. Or, perhaps more likely, the author of the Milwaukee Journal got the name wrong, and the error propagated to the Life Magazine article.

Anyway, from this the FBI was able to find the correct Felde. They took his statement, in which Felde acknowledges being Oswald platoon mate. Problem is, the wrong name, Allen R. Felde, is given on this document! How can that be explained??

HYPOTHESIS

Suppose the true name of this man is actually Allen R. Felde. After all, the Life Magazine and Milwaukee Journal articles both used that name. The FBI used that name. The only thing that uses Alexander D. are the Marine Corp records.

My hypothesis is that the Marine Corp records ALSO used the correct name, Allen R. Felde... originally. However, the CIA / FBI realized it would be a disaster if WC critics and researchers ever found this guy. So they changed all the USMC records in the FBI's possession to show Alexander D. Felde instead of Allen R. Felde. A person who does not exist.

There was nothing they could do about the two news articles that had already used the correct name. Plus they made a mistake by not changing the name on CE1962, which is Felde's statement. Whoever was given the task of switching names simply overlooked the statement.

Are there any holes in my hypothesis?

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Tom Hume]

Maybe Al Felde #1 and Al Felde #2 were in the same undercover doppelganger program as Lee Oswald #1 and Lee Oswald #2. Maybe the waters were intentionally muddied.

There’s also the tangle of nearly identical ex-Marine “Steve Landesberg” names surrounding the circa 1960 "Steven Yves L’Eandes" mystery. Several Lee Harvey Oswald impersonation overtones here.

 

 

Edited July 19, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Jim Hargrove]

DJ and I both think that the FBI deliberately supplied information on the wrong Felde to minimize exposure of the relevant Felde’s association with a second Oswald in the USMC.  Sandy’s hypothesis about this might be right on the money.  This sort of thing was part of the FBI’s bag of tricks for misinforming the Warren Commission about the Oswald Project.  It’s funny that Tom Hume mentions the “Steven Yves L’Eandes” affair in the post above, because following is an example of several other similar types of FBI “errors” from the very saga Tom mentions.

I’ve tried to keep it simple here.  For those who want to read John’s full write-up, see the link at the bottom of the post. 

Anyway….

Hours after the assassination, the FBI had information that a LEE Harvey Oswald was acting as an agent provocateur in New York City in 1961 and 1962, when Lee HARVEY Oswald was living in the Soviet Union.

 

 

Told that several of the people working with Oswald had stayed at the Roosevelt Hotel in NYC, the next step was clearly to check the hotel’s records.  But, of course, confirming any part of the information or, worse yet, finding that Lee Harvey Oswald was staying at the New York hotel at the same time he was in Russia would clearly expose the Oswald Project.

So what did Hoover do?  He sent Special Agent James E. Schmidt of the New Orleans office to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans!  Not surprisingly, Oswald’s name was not found there since the agent was clearly at the wrong hotel.

 



 

But wait!  It gets even better.  

Three days after the assassination, Special Agent  J. Richard Nichols contacted Major Robert C. Whitebread of the Marine Corps in an attempt to locate Earl Perry,  one of the people who worked with Oswald in New York City in early 1962. Nichols learned that the only Earl Perry on active duty was assigned to the Marine Supply Center in Barstow, CA and was from El Paso, TX. But on the next day, instead of requesting the military file for Earl Eugene Perry from El Paso, SA Leonard Lewis obtained the file for Earl Sheldon Perry from the Military Personnel Records Center in St. Louis. Earl Sheldon Perry was from Casper, Wyoming. By making this deliberate “error,” the FBI avoided contacting Earl Eugene Perry from El Paso, who was mentioned as an acquaintance of Oswald in New York City in 1961. Instead, it collected information on Earl Sheldon Perry, a former chaplain's assistant in the US Army who, of course, didn’t know anything about Oswald in NYC.

Problem solved!

For John’s complete write-up on this, which also involved a man who became a well-known television actor in the 1970s, see:

http://harveyandlee.net/Landesberg/Landesbergs.html

Edited July 19, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[David Josephs]

4 hours ago, Tom Hume said:

Maybe Al Felde #1 and Al Felde #2 were in the same undercover doppelganger program as Lee Oswald #1 and Lee Oswald #2. Maybe the waters were intentionally muddied.

There’s also the tangle of nearly identical ex-Marine “Steve Landesberg” names surrounding the circa 1960 "Steven Yves L’Eandes" mystery. Several Lee Harvey Oswald impersonation overtones here.

 

 

I don't know that I'd go that far Tom...  the FBI creating duplicity in the evidence is THE theme of the investigation.  There are at least 2 of almost everything.

In many cases there were physically 2 of an item... but in many others the FBI reports show they simply went after an alternate subject.

Duplicity in the Evidence would make a great book on its own.

 

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

21 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

For John’s complete write-up on this, which also involved a man who became a well-known television actor in the 1970s, see:

Amazing that Jim Hargrove is still promoting this stuff that was debunked two years ago:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/01/the-hoaxster-and-conspiracy-theorists.html

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/01/armstrong-evolving-landesberg-theory.html

 

[Jim Hargrove]

Mr. Parnell is not much of a debunker....

My post above, which he claims to have debunked two years ago, makes two specific points:

1.  Men associated with Lee Harvey Oswald in NYC in early 1962 (when the other Oswald was in Russia) were staying at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

2.  That one of Oswald's NYC associates was a man named Earl Perry, who, according to an FBI source, Oswald met at Camp LeJeune as a Marine in 1956.

Anyone who bothers to read Mr. Parnell's lengthy write-ups at the links he offers above will discover the following:

1. To explain why the FBI went to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans, instead of the Roosevelt Hotel in New York specified in the FBI's own report, Mr. Parnell basically says, "Gosh, mistakes happen."  That's right!  It's just a Big Mistake!  It could happen to anyone.

2. To explain why the FBI did not bother to make a report on the only Earl Perry active in the USMC, Mr. Parnell says, well.... maybe Perry was no longer in the USMC... so the FBI had better not make a report on the one who still was.  Sheesh!

No wonder Mr. Parnell never wants to put his arguments right here.  He just points everywhere else and hopes people will believe he has real arguments.  He doesn't.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Parnell is not much of a debunker....

My post above, which he claims to have debunked two years ago, makes two specific points:

1.  Men associated with Lee Harvey Oswald in NYC in early 1962 (when the other Oswald was in Russia) were staying at the Roosevelt Hotel in New York City.

2.  That one of Oswald's NYC associates was a man named Earl Perry, who, according to an FBI source, Oswald met at Camp LeJeune as a Marine in 1956.

Anyone who bothers to read Mr. Parnell's lengthy write-ups at the links he offers above will discover the following:

1. To explain why the FBI went to the Roosevelt Hotel in New Orleans, instead of the Roosevelt Hotel in New York specified in the FBI's own report, Mr. Parnell basically says, "Gosh, mistakes happen."  That's right!  It's just a Big Mistake!  It could happen to anyone.

2. To explain why the FBI did not bother to make a report on the only Earl Perry active in the USMC, Mr. Parnell says, well.... maybe Perry was no longer in the USMC... so the FBI had better not make a report on the one who still was.  Sheesh!

No wonder Mr. Parnell never wants to put his arguments right here.  He just points everywhere else and hopes people will believe he has real arguments.  He doesn't.

First, you are again promoting the idea, with no evidence to back it up, that the actor Steve Landesberg was somehow connected to LHO and the assassination. My articles demonstrate this to be not the case. On the Roosevelt Hotel, I quote from my article “John Armstrong and His Evolving Landesberg Theory”:

The FBI simply did something that Armstrong doesn’t believe ever happens in the real world-they made a mistake and sent agents to the wrong Roosevelt Hotel. However, I located a document at the Mary Ferrell website that reveals why they went to New Orleans. One FBI report of the Rizzuto interview clearly says the hotel was in New York. But another report doesn’t mention the location although “NYC” was written in sometime later. Because “Regan” was ostensibly from Memphis, someone at the FBI, apparently working from the second document without the New York reference, assumed that the Roosevelt Hotel was in Memphis as well. So, they checked Memphis first.

The document goes on to say that no Roosevelt Hotel was in Memphis and then states the following:

Believe Rizzuto may have meant New Orleans. New Orleans division requested to check records Roosevelt Hotel in effort to identify Regan and to check other logical sources.

So, although careful work by the FBI could have avoided this mistake, there certainly is a reasonable explanation behind it. More reasonable than believing the FBI went to New Orleans because they were trying to avoid a proper investigation when the record shows an extensive investigation up until the point Rizzuto was exposed.

On Earl Perry from the same article:

The Armstrong team has been trying to sell the idea for some time that when the FBI found Earl Eugene Perry, who they say was from El Paso, Texas, they should have immediately focused in on him to the exclusion of all others. First, they mention that this Perry was the only one on “active duty”. But that is meaningless in this instance since the “Perry” that Rizzuto claimed to know was from 1956 and could be out of the service by 1963. And there would be no reason to limit the search to active duty personnel.

Secondly, there is no evidence that Earl Eugene Perry was from El Paso. When I asked Armstrong’s supporters for their source on this, I was referred again and again to the statement by agent J. Richard Nichols who contacted Major Robert Whitebread. But that report says absolutely nothing about Perry being from El Paso, Texas, and only says he was stationed at Barstow, California. The only person who said Perry was from El Paso was Rizzuto [Landesberg the student with mental problems] and he never said it was Earl Eugene Perry, only Earl Perry.

The claims by Armstrong and his supporters that the FBI was trying to shut down their investigation regarding El Paso are false as well. The FBI called every “Perry” in the 1963 El Paso phone book attempting to find information. They located a Colonel James Perry who indeed had a brother named Earl. But Colonel Perry’s brother had never lived in El Paso. Once again, Armstrong and his supporters have attempted to twist the evidence but the facts are clear-there was no Earl Perry from El Paso and the FBI conducted a complete investigation. 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

To Tracy Parnell…

Your positions are utterly absurd.  The political provocateurs under consideration above were active in New York City in early 1962 (and earlier). The informant said several of the men working in New York City with Lee Oswald were staying at the Roosevelt Hotel, also in New York City.

It is more than 1300 miles by car from Manhattan, New York to downtown New Orleans.  Your suggestion that the FBI might have thought these New York City activists may have been staying in a hotel requiring a daily round trip commute of MORE THAN TWO THOUSAND SIX HUNDRED MILES is beyond laughable.  

So is your contention that the FBI should not have talked to the only Earl Perry active in the USMC at the time.  If you call this debunking, I’ve got a bridge to sell you.
 

[Sandy Larsen]

Tracy,

In order to debunk somebody's theory, you need to prove that a necessary element of the theory is incorrect. What you have done in come up with an alternate theory. Which is fine, but it doesn't debunk any other theory.

Let me ask you a question. How do you explain the fact that Felde's name in multiple USMC unit diaries was given as Alexander D. Felde, yet in two independent news articles and in his FBI statement his name was given as Allen R. Felde? This seems to be irreconcilable.

 

[David Josephs]

Modus Operandi - the finding of the wrong witnesses, especially when it was for Oswald where he wasn't supposed to be, was a reused tactic of the FBI

When it was said Oswald crossed into Mexico with a Young white couple... the only pair fitting that description was "Bill and Elaine ALLEN"

So the FBI goes and finds M/M Brill to help confirm Ozzie did not have confederates in this endeavor. 

Simple case of simple mistakes...  Just sayin'