Altgens 6, a different view

[Ray Mitcham]

2 hours ago, John Butler said:

In the grass as shown in Zapruder.  If that's true than any work done that is not in tune with your sacred cow, the Zapruder film is problematic.

It is good that you can still shave, Ray.

lolf

 

He moved to get out of the way of the traffic cops, or is that too hard for you to understand.

Maybe when you are old enough you might be able to shave too.

p.s. Why do you believe my sacred cow is the Zapruder film? 

Edited February 25, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[John Butler]

You mean the motorcycle cops ran up into the grassy area causing Altgens to move?  Where is that in the Zapruder film?  That is the only information you have on Altgens movements.  All else is speculation.

[Ray Mitcham]

22 hours ago, John Butler said:

You mean the motorcycle cops ran up into the grassy area causing Altgens to move?  Where is that in the Zapruder film?  That is the only information you have on Altgens movements.  All else is speculation.

Doh!

 

So that you understand what happened.

© Don Roberdeau.

Altgens stood on the roadway to take Altgens6, then moved onto the grass, as the motorcycle cops approached, to avoid being run down. Shouldn't be too hard to understand.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Ray Mitcham

[Bill Miller]

23 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

He moved to get out of the way of the traffic cops, or is that too hard for you to understand.

Maybe when you are old enough you might be able to shave too.

p.s. Why do you believe my sacred cow is the Zapruder film? 

 

Ray,

Don't waste time with John Butler on this. He seemingly fails to comprehend that Altgens 6 shows beyond any doubt that Ike stepped off the curb and into the street to take that particular photo. The camera is front of Ike's face and the curb is to Ike's right is a given. Let John explain to you why 4.5 seconds was not enough time for Altgens to step back up onto the curb.  

[John Butler]

Yep!  You boys are wasting your time here trying to explain anything to me.   BS, falsehoods, and  nonsense is recognized for what it is.

If you can't convince some one with your arguments then move to ridicule and harassment.  I looked at posts here over time and your behavior hasn't changed.  Your like old dogs who can't learn a new trick.  There's about a half dozen of you gateway thugs I'm sure people could do without. 

You boys do a good job of keeping a lot of people from posting on this site through your actions. 

lolff

[Ray Mitcham]

39 minutes ago, John Butler said:

Yep!  You boys are wasting your time here trying to explain anything to me.  

At last you got something right.

[John Butler]

Yo, LGT boys!  I'm going to give you more opportunity to foam at the mouth and waste your time.  I'm going to make a new post soon.  If I am really wasting your time then you shouldn't respond to it. 

Since, I'm attacking the basic foundations of your mythos I don't see how you will be able to not respond.  Your LGT position should be changed to a LGR philosophy. Your beliefs have more to do with religion than science or truth.  Is it ok to use utter nonsense in your religion?  Is it ok to say and do anything? 

Let me say it again.  You boys do a good job of keeping a lot of people from posting on this site through your actions. I see the same faces and the same techniques used by you people in recent times.  I've started reading the oldest posts on this forum.  Many people who posted long ago don't do that now.  All I'm seeing now is about a dozen of you guys attacking savagely and viciously the people you don't agree with.  You have created a cloud over this forum.  I think the monitors of this forum should look at your bullying behavior closely. 

I really don't want to waste any more time measuring body parts.  Expect the "Unger response" in the future.

 

 

[Bill Miller]

16 hours ago, John Butler said:

Yep!  You boys are wasting your time here trying to explain anything to me.   BS, falsehoods, and  nonsense is recognized for what it is.

If you can't convince some one with your arguments then move to ridicule and harassment.  I looked at posts here over time and your behavior hasn't changed.  Your like old dogs who can't learn a new trick.  There's about a half dozen of you gateway thugs I'm sure people could do without. 

You boys do a good job of keeping a lot of people from posting on this site through your actions. 

lolff

 

You compared Ike Altgens location at 4.5 seconds after he took his #6 photo as something sinister as if Ike couldn't move from the street back over the curb in that amount of time.

Altgens 6 supports Ike being in the street as his camera appears to be on a near level plane with the limo's trunk, so is it that you are disputing this?

 

Altgens 7 shows the camera to be elevated above the level plane of the limo's trunk which is what should happen if Ike stepped out of the street and atop of the curb. So is this what you are disputing?

[Chris Bristow]

Bill, the limo also drops about 9 feet in altitude from Altgens 6 to 7, from No later than Z255 to z390(approx.). That is the main reason we see the trunk being lower in A. 7. The curb must add about 6 inches to the perspective also. 
 The time between A, 6 and 7 should be about 8 seconds if From Z255 to Z390. Frame 390 is my best estimate based on a LOS from the middle of the spare tire cover to the lamppost behind it.

[Bill Miller]

1 hour ago, Chris Bristow said:

Bill, the limo also drops about 9 feet in altitude from Altgens 6 to 7, from No later than Z255 to z390(approx.). That is the main reason we see the trunk being lower in A. 7. The curb must add about 6 inches to the perspective also. 
 The time between A, 6 and 7 should be about 8 seconds if From Z255 to Z390. Frame 390 is my best estimate based on a LOS from the middle of the spare tire cover to the lamppost behind it.

I understand that ... Elm street has a 3% grade as best as I recall. Ike still stepped up 12 to 14 inches when he backed out of the street.

[Chris Bristow]

Bill ya 3 or 4, they say 4 degrees but I have not checked it myself. I assumed the curb was about 6 inches high and I would add one or two more for the carpet of grass. I have heard the street level has risen several inches due to resurfacing over the years and the crown of the street would raise him several inches if he really was 6 feet into the street. Lots of little unknowns but he definitely was 2 to 6 feet into the street in A. 6. Too bad Google Earth can't takes us off the street and onto the grass and other spots. A 3d Dealey plaza we could walk through would be great.

[Bill Miller]

21 hours ago, Chris Bristow said:

Bill ya 3 or 4, they say 4 degrees but I have not checked it myself. I assumed the curb was about 6 inches high and I would add one or two more for the carpet of grass. I have heard the street level has risen several inches due to resurfacing over the years and the crown of the street would raise him several inches if he really was 6 feet into the street. Lots of little unknowns but he definitely was 2 to 6 feet into the street in A. 6. Too bad Google Earth can't takes us off the street and onto the grass and other spots. A 3d Dealey plaza we could walk through would be great.

It was Gary Mack that confirmed the 3% grade.

I heard a long time ago about the rumor of asphalt build-up, but then someone posted photos of the work when the re-surfacing was done and the old asphalt has been removed before the new surface was put down.

What one cannot appreciate is the south pasture slopes down to the top of the curb. So even if standing back 3 - 4 inches from the top of the curb places one on a slope. t seems to me that when we tested the Moorman in the street issue many years ago - there was about a 12" difference between standing on the street to where Moorman was in elevation standing where her feet were seen in the Zapruder film.

Edited February 28, 2017 by Bill Miller

[Chris Bristow]

Bill, that pasture slope is something I have wondered about. You can see it but measuring it is not easy. Luckily nothing I have studied so far required it. I have noticed in street repaving they added a few layers over the old ones, then after several of those they took out all the layers and started at the bottom again. So maybe the difference depends on when it is measured.

[Bill Miller]

Gary Mack had all those figures because this stuff came up years ago. So I am sure the Museum has that information as well.

[John Butler]

This is Z frame 170.  Doesn’t this look amazingly like Altgens 6 shot from a different direction,  Zapruder’s direction.  The positions of the four motorcade vehicles are a tiny fraction of a second from being in the same position as the motorcade vehicles in Altgens 6.

Let’s see if we can put this frame in relation to Altgens 6.   We see that the President is not shot here.  At least he shows no signs of duress.  He’s shot somewhere around Z frame 210 in the throat.  In appearance he doesn’t match the Altgens photo until Z frame 255.  This is when we see Jackie Kennedy touching her husband.

My problem here is that we see this scene, similar to Altgens 6, in Z frame 255 which is 85 frames / 85 feet or close to 5 seconds or so further down the road from Z frame 170.

Adding to my problem is the question of how far down Elm has the Johnson security vehicle, which we see almost in the Altgens 6 position in Z frame 170) has traveled down Elm St.

Well, would it be 85 frames / 85 feet.  That would put the Johnson security vehicle almost past the TSBD at the SW corner of the TSBD if they were keeping up with the motorcade.  I see no reason for them not to.