Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: You believe the guy in this video (alleged Lovelady) is a woman? Sandy, Absolutely. I'm a photograph and film expert with many, many years of experience, and I clearly see a woman who's wearing a light-colored headscarf that just happens to make her look like she's got a bald forehead and very short hair (for a woman) on the sides, who's wearing a white t-shirt under her strangely cut-low-in-the-back "rain coat" (which just happens to have a white horizontal line on its sleeve), and whose light-colored headscarf has two black spots that just happen to look like eyes and another spot that looks like a mouth. LOL -- Tommy Edited February 19, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 20 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: 1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said: You believe the guy in this video (alleged Lovelady) is a woman? Sandy, Absolutely. I'm a photograph and film expert with many, many years of experience, and I clearly see a woman who's wearing a light-colored headscarf that just happens to make her look like she's got a bald forehead and very short hair (for a woman) on the sides, who's wearing a white t-shirt under her strangely cut-low-in-the-back "rain coat" (which just happens to have a white horizontal line in it), and whose light-colored headscarf has two black spots that just happen to look like eyes and another spot that looks like a mouth. LOL -- Tommy LOL, Oh yeah, I've known women like that. Back in the 70s there were a lot of headscarves with sideburns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 15 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: LOL, Oh yeah, I've known women like that. Back in the 70s there were a lot of headscarves with sideburns. Sandy, It's interesting to note that the woman in black directly below "her" is not moving up the steps, but is just standing there and might even have her bare left arm raised as though she's pointing to something. (IDK) Regardless, could the woman in black be talking to "her"? -- Tommy Edited February 20, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 46 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Sandy, It's interesting to note that the woman in black directly below "her" is not moving up the steps, but is just standing there and might even have her bare left arm raised as though she's pointing to something. (IDK) Regardless, could the woman in black be talking to "her"? -- Tommy :sun. Well, think about it... the woman in black is directly facing the guy ("her"). I think it's a pretty good assumption that they are talking to each other. I wonder if that is Gloria Calvery? It's funny you mention her bare left arm. The other day when I was looking at Robin's animated gif I thought, hey isn't that her arm? To me it looks like she is leaning against the wall with her extended arm. And it seems like I can see her hand, palm against the wall. That's something I can see a guy doing, but woman I've known wouldn't do that. I think because their hand gets needlessly dirty. But who knows? EDIT: Oh, I think you added the "talking to her" and I didn't notice! (I just read your PM.) So I said the same thing in my reply as though you hadn't mentioned it. LOL Edited February 19, 2017 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 Tommy, Look at the all-black woman's arm. It kind of moves up and down relative to her body, but generally seems to come out of her torso too low. Do you agree? If so, what else could it be?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 17 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Tommy, Look at the all-black woman's arm. It kind of moves up and down relative to her body, but generally seems to come out of her torso too low. Do you agree? If so, what else could it be?? Sandy, I think we can see the woman in black leaning towards "our" Lovelady, and, yes, that might be her bare left arm that we see. If she was wearing "heels" for our handsome President and his elegant wife to see, she might have wanted to stabilize herself while standing on that step by holding onto the building. I mean, I always try to hold onto something when I'm wearing my high heels. (lol) Question: Is the woman in white to her immediate right trying to pull her up the steps, or does she have a black sweater or something draped over her left forearm? -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: You believe the guy in this video (alleged Lovelady) is a woman? Please pay attention so not to attempt to morph or twist the things I have said .... I said that the person you are trying to turn into another Lovelady did not rise from a sitting on the steps, but that it may have appeared this person rose up because of the woman between he and the camera. Did you notice that she appears to have her hand on the wall. If someone could measure the distance between the top of her shoulders to someone standing on the sidewalk before and then after you think the alleged BL rose up - then it may be that the woman eased back down a half a step which only made this person you believe to be Billy Lovelady look to rise up. I am not saying this happened for my time is more important elsewhere .... I am just saying if it is important to you, then there are ways to check the things you think you are seeing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Sandy, I think we can see the woman in black leaning towards "our" Lovelady, and, yes, that might be her bare left arm that we see. If she was wearing "heels" for our handsome President and his elegant wife to see, she might have wanted to stabilize herself while standing on that step by holding onto the building. I mean, I always try to hold onto something when I'm wearing my high heels. (lol) Question: Is the woman in white to her immediate right trying to pull her up the steps, or does she have a black sweater or something draped over her left forearm? -- Tommy It looked to me like the woman in the light colored coat was merely trying to manipulate her was around the woman to her left. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: It looked to me like the woman in the light colored coat was merely trying to manipulate her was around the woman to her left. Dear William, Regarding whether or not "Lovelady" rose up somewhat while standing (broad definition of "standing" here) on that step, I suggest that you look at Prayer Person's right arm and ask yourself whether or not he / she moves it in a downward direction. If he / she doesn't, then how else than "Lovelady's" rising a little bit or a lot (straightening up from a leaning-over position?) could explain the fact that his ("Lovelady's") head rises above said arm at the very, very end of the GIF? -- Tommy Edited February 19, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 55 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear William, Regarding whether or not "Lovelady" rose up somewhat while standing (broad definition of "standing" here) on that step, I suggest that you look at Prayer Person's right arm and ask yourself whether or not he / she moves it in a downward direction. If he / she doesn't, then how else than "Lovelady's" rising a little bit (straightening up from a leaning-over position?) could explain the fact that his ("Lovelady's") head rises above said arm at the very, very end of the GIF? -- Tommy I saw the head rise slightly ... which doesn't take much to reach PM's arm when the camera is looking slightly upward from the street. A shift in posture could account for this. However, it was suggested that this individual had stood up and I don't believe for a second that this person heard shots and decided to sit down on the steps ... which is not what Lovelady said he had done. Nor do I believe that all these people went up to the landing and crowded around so to wait as long as three minutes for Truly and Patrolman Baker to enter the front door of the TSBD. This is why I bring up two independent witnesses who were inside alone on a quite first floor - with one in the vestibule and the other in a nearby office. The man in the office (West) heard shots and immediately came out on the first floor and both men testified that their boss (Roy TRuly) and a Policeman entered the building together and were the first ones on the floor before anyone else from outside of the building. Shelley and Lovelady were quite clear they were on the Island (Lovelady saying 25 steps from the building) when he looked back and saw Truly at the top of the stairs and moving towards the door. West and Piper testified that Truly and the Policeman were the first one;s through the door. Sandy's version of the event has people piling onto the landing like atop of a sinking ship so to wait for presumably Truly and Baker to be the first one's to enter the building. I find his position to be as weak as a newborn baby's hand-shake. You may recall that I had at first did not buy Kamp's claim that the two men walking on the Elm Street extension and away from the stairs were Shelley and Lovelady. But carefully evaluating all the evidence ... I agree that Kamp appears to have been right. I believe West and Piper would not have been wrong about who the first individuals were who rushed onto the floor through the entrance of the TSBD doorway. Mr. Ball had jumped back and forth in his questioning of Shelley and Lovelady and I believe that is what lead to any confusion as to when Lovelady saw Truly about to enter the building. The most obvious reason is that one could not have toured over to the Island - then walked to the tracks in the RR yard - and then walked back to the back of the TSBD in a mere 25 steps to look up to see Truly enter the building. I think Sandy is hung up on a single misstatement in the report that defies all the other statements made prior and from witnesses like West and Piper. And for the record - I never said the person in question was a woman ... someone else had. I may have posted Man/woman when addressing someone's comments because what I was referencing did not have anything to do with this person's gender and I didn't care to argue over what sex the person was. I was and am convinced it wasn't Lovelady. I wish it was though just to see Kamp go ballistic - Edited February 19, 2017 by Bill Miller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: I saw the head rise slightly ... which doesn't take much to reach PM's arm when the camera is looking slightly upward from the street. [...] Dear William, So, you do admit that the head of the person I'm calling "Lovelady" does rise "a little bit," right? Fantastic. Are you capable of imagining that, regardless of who that person was, he or she might have leaned forward a little bit to talk with someone standing a couple steps below him or her? I mean, given the noise factor and everything? Great. Now we're really "cooking with gas"! -- Tommy Edited February 19, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) [deleted] Edited February 19, 2017 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, Bill Miller said: Nor do I believe that all these people went up to the landing and crowded around so to wait as long as three minutes for Truly and Patrolman Baker to enter the front door of the TSBD. This is why I bring up two independent witnesses who were inside alone on a quite first floor - with one in the vestibule and the other in a nearby office. Your first witness's testimony was a joke, and the second less than convincing. I'd point out why if I had them in front of me, though I think they're both self evident. (A leading of the witness on the second one, I recall.) There are a number of witnesses who were asked by the WC if they saw Baker enter, and all but one said no. Even though Baker supposedly broke through the crowd. And indeed the film shows a crowded stairway. You wouldn't stand a chance in a debate over this with the ROKC folks. Quote Sandy's version of the event has people piling onto the landing like atop of a sinking ship so to wait for presumably Truly and Baker to be the first one's to enter the building. I find his position to be as weak as a newborn baby's hand-shake. I never mention which direction the crowds were going. They could be going both ways for all I know, thus resulting in no accumulation or loss of people on the steps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Miller Posted February 19, 2017 Share Posted February 19, 2017 2 hours ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear William, So, you do admit that the head of the person I'm calling "Lovelady" does rise "a little bit," right? Fantastic. Are you capable of imagining that, regardless of who that person was, he or she might have leaned forward a little bit to talk with someone standing a couple steps below him or her? I mean, given the noise factor and everything? Great. Now we're really "cooking with gas"! -- Tommy Was there any confusion when I said the following in my previous post .... " I saw the head rise slightly ... which doesn't take much to reach PM's arm when the camera is looking slightly upward from the street. A shift in posture could account for this. However, it was suggested that this individual had stood up and I don't believe for a second that this person heard shots and decided to sit down on the steps ... which is not what Lovelady said he had done." So cook with gas if you like .... just stop inhaling its fumes before reading my postings so to better understand what I have said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2017 Author Share Posted February 19, 2017 (edited) 12 hours ago, Bill Miller said: I saw the head rise slightly ... which doesn't take much to reach PM's arm when the camera is looking slightly upward from the street. However, it was suggested that this individuals had stood up and I don't believe for a second that this person heard shots and decided to sit down on the steps ... which is not what Lovelady said he had done. [...] Dear William, Did you look at the very, very last instant of this GIF? This one right here? 12 hours ago, Thomas Graves said: Dear William, So, you do admit that the head of the person I'm calling "Lovelady" does rise "a little bit," right? Fantastic. Are you capable of imagining that, regardless of who that person was, he or she might have leaned forward a little bit to talk with someone standing a couple steps below him or her? I mean, given the noise factor and everything? Great. Now we're really "cooking with gas"! -- Tommy William Miller wrote: "Was there any confusion when I said the following in my previous post .... ' I saw the head rise slightly ... which doesn't take much to reach PM's arm when the camera is looking slightly upward from the street. A shift in posture could account for this. However, it was suggested that this individual had stood up and I don't believe for a second that this person heard shots and decided to sit down on the steps ... which is not what Lovelady said he had done. ' So cook with gas if you like .... just stop inhaling its fumes before reading my postings so to better understand what I have said. " ........................................................................................................................................................................................................................... Dear William, What year did you graduate from the Vince Lombardi School of Charm? If I have ever said I thought the "Lovelady" figure in Couch-Darnell "stood up" from a sitting-down position, or a squatting-on-"his"- haunches position, or a kneeling-down-on-the-steps position, then I deeply apologize for having chosen those particular words, because that's not what I believe now at all. What I do believe now is that at the beginning of this GIF, "Lovelady" is leaning-forward / bending-over so that "he" can talk to and / or listen to the woman dressed in black directly in front of "him". I do hope that you are capable of understanding that, for I cannot put it to you more simply than that. The GIF I'm referring to: Now, as regards your statement made approximately '3 hours ago' that "A shift in posture could account for this" [i.e. "Lovelady's" head rising in the GIF], I completely agree. In fact, that's exactly the point I've been trying to get across to you for some time now -- that "his" head-raising shift-in-posture consisted specifically of "his" straightening up from "his" leaning-forward / bending-over position which previous position we can reasonably intuit from the GIF, now can't we. But I've got to ask you: When, pray tell, have you previous to approximately 'three hours ago' said anything to the effect that "A shift in ['Lovelady's'] posture could account for this"? For I seem to have missed that, Dear William. "My bad," I'm sure. Or was that just some 'three-hour-ago' damage-control addition? All the best, -- Tommy Edited February 20, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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