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Thomas Graves

Is that ... (Gasp) ... Billy Lovelady Talking With Gloria Calvery on the Steps?

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35 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

In Altgens 6, there is a figure of an African-American male's head facing east directly in front of Shelley, behind the front of the building, in the alcove area, at his chest level.  Where is that person in the lower screen shot showing PM, and in the color picture Andrej posted?

Thanks

Rick

 

Rick,

That African American is much closer to the camera that the people on the steps.

--  TG

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5 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Rick,

That African American is much closer to the camera that the people on the steps.

--  TG

True of the female African Americans, but the male's head is behind the left hand column of the alcove of the building, right?  You only see like 2/3 of his head.

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18 minutes ago, Rick McTague said:

True of the female African Americans, but the male's head is behind the left hand column of the alcove of the building, right?  You only see like 2/3 of his head.

 

 

The Black man's name is ROY LEWIS.

Credit: Robin Unger

 

--  TG

 

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1 minute ago, Rick McTague said:

Actually, reading that post, Robin's conclusion is that it was Carl Jones.

MY BAD.

--  TG

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13 hours ago, Andrej Stancak said:

In fact, it seems that not only Billy Lovelady is on steps in Darnell but also, not surprising, Bill Shelley. Bill Shelley stands at the spot on the top landing which he also occupied in Altgens6 and Wiegman film. The lady wearing a dark headscarf appears to stand as if talking while the lady wearing a white headscarf is moving continuously up the steps over successive frames in Darnell. 

whole_scene_cut.jpg?w=768

Andrej,

In the interest of making a complete picture, I was curious if you wanted to update this fine graphic with Carl Jones, the African-American gentleman seen in Altgens6 directly below and in front of Billy Lovelady?

Robin had an earlier thread that revealed it was Carl Edward Jones whose side profile is shown.  

Hope this helps.

Rick 

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Yes, it was Carl Jones.

In the Couch film, when the two people who some have identified as Lovelady and Shelley start there walk towards the rail tracks.

i believe it is Carl Jones we see walk across to the concrete island and grab the traffic light pole just as Officer Baker starts his run towards the TSBD doorway.

Couchcrop.gif

Couchslow.gif

 

Willis 8 crop

 

 

Carl Jones.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger

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7 hours ago, David Von Pein said:
19 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

And the only thing a person needs to accept in order to have Oswald where he said he was during the shooting -- on the first floor -- is that the people whose testimonies created the 2nd floor encounter were l.y.i.n.g.

That would include Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, Will Fritz, and Jim Bookhout. (And if Fritz and Bookhout weren't lying, then Oswald himself lied about encountering the policeman on the SECOND floor.)

Now, I wonder which one of these options is more likely to be correct:

All of the above people were liars....or....Victoria Adams simply made an honest mistake about exactly how long it took her to get to the first floor?

Is that really a tough choice for you, Sandy?


David,

While you comfortably sit on your LNer tush assuming that Victoria Adams made that mistake, a number of us here are PROVING that those who testified against her statement l.i.e.d.

I have personally proven that Shelley and Lovelady lied. (As have others.) All you have to do is read Officer Baker's first-day affidavit and WC testimony to see that he lied.  Several people lied in the coverup.

 

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1 hour ago, Sandy Larsen said:

All you have to do is read Officer Baker's first-day affidavit and WC testimony to see that he lied.

Balderdash, Sandy!

There is nothing in Marrion Baker's 11/22 affidavit or in his WC testimony that PROVES HE LIED.

When comparing a statement given by a person who was obviously confused as to the floor number (such as Officer Baker's "3rd or 4th floor" statement that we find in his first-day affidavit) to the later testimony given by Baker at a time when his confusion had been cleared up, does not equal a LIE.

And in Baker's affidavit, it couldn't be more obvious that he was NOT SURE which floor he encountered Oswald on. Hence, he writes "third or fourth floor".

How can you possibly turn that "3rd or 4th floor" confusion into an outright LIE being told later to the WC by Officer Baker? You can't---if you're a reasonable person looking for the truth.

Edited by David Von Pein

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Uh Davey, before you shout balderdash in Bugliosian style, can you answer the following question:

In that affidavit, can you please point out where Baker mentions seeing Oswald through a window, in front of a soda machine, inside a lunch room?

Let me know when you find those references. 

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7 hours ago, Rick McTague said:

Andrej,

In the interest of making a complete picture, I was curious if you wanted to update this fine graphic with Carl Jones, the African-American gentleman seen in Altgens6 directly below and in front of Billy Lovelady?

Robin had an earlier thread that revealed it was Carl Edward Jones whose side profile is shown.  

Hope this helps.

Rick 

Hello Rick:

the scene depicted in my post refers to one and only one frame of Darnell film. In that film, Carl Jones cannot be seen at his Altgens6/Wiegman spot. I agree with Robin that it is Carl Jones. I have already modelled Carl Jones in Altgens6 and although the full analysis will be presented later along with the search for the missing lady (Mrs. Stanton), I see no reasons for not showing Carl Jones in Altgens6. In my reconstruction, Carl Jones stood with his left foot on the third step and his right foot on the second step from the bottom. Only this location ensured seeing his face exactly as it is seen in Altgens. Should he stand with both feet on the second step (as in Wiegman), he would be too much out of the doorway and his face would be too large.

carljones_overall.jpg?w=1700 

 

Figure legend: Mr. Carl Jones in Willis8, Altgens6 and a 3D model of the doorway. A. A cropped view of Willis8 photograph [ftn] showing a tall Afro-American man, Carl Jones, standing in the doorway. B. A cropped view of doorway occupants from the composite Altgens6 picture shown in Figure 2. C. Overlay of Mr. Carl Jones's figure in Altgens6 composite and the 3D model. D. The figure of Mr. Carl Jones in the 3D model. E. Mr. Jones's figure from a southeast view. F. Mr. Carl Jones with the measuring stick (7') paralleling the vertical axis of his body. The checkerboard squares on the measuring stick correspond to inches. Mr. Jones measured 6'2'' - 6'3''.

Edited by Andrej Stancak

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On 3/27/2018 at 4:31 PM, David Von Pein said:

Here's what I said 7 years ago (and I still feel this way today)....

"With respect to Vickie Adams, the ONLY thing a person needs to accept in order to have Oswald on the back stairs within one to two minutes after the President's assassination is to accept the almost certain fact that Victoria Adams was simply inaccurate in her time estimate about when she and Sandra Styles were on the back staircase.

And if she's off by a mere ONE MINUTE, or even less, then her whole story unravels and it then becomes quite easy to accept the fact that Oswald used the back stairs just after shooting President Kennedy from the sixth floor.

The key to pretty much knowing without a doubt that Adams and Styles were on the stairs only AFTER Lee Oswald used the same stairs is not really Oswald himself--but Roy Truly and Marrion Baker.

Because if Adams was really on the stairs as early as she said she was, she would have had virtually no choice but to have seen (or heard) the two men who we know for a fact WERE on those stairs within about 60 to 75 seconds of the assassination -- Truly and Baker.

Since Adams saw nobody and heard nobody, the very likely solution is that she was mistaken about her timing (which couldn't be a more common error with human beings), and she was on the stairs AFTER all three men (Oswald, Baker, and Truly) had already utilized the same stairs." -- DVP; February 14, 2011

 

Thanks for your response DVP.

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On 3/28/2018 at 6:33 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

On 3/28/2018 at 10:31 AM, David Von Pein said:
  On 3/27/2018 at 11:11 PM, Sandy Larsen said:

And the only thing a person needs to accept in order to have Oswald where he said he was during the shooting -- on the first floor -- is that the people whose testimonies created the 2nd floor encounter were l.y.i.n.g.

That would include Roy Truly, Marrion Baker, Will Fritz, and Jim Bookhout. (And if Fritz and Bookhout weren't lying, then Oswald himself lied about encountering the policeman on the SECOND floor.)

Now, I wonder which one of these options is more likely to be correct:

All of the above people were liars....or....Victoria Adams simply made an honest mistake about exactly how long it took her to get to the first floor?

Is that really a tough choice for you, Sandy?

 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

David,

While you comfortably sit on your LNer tush assuming that Victoria Adams made that mistake, a number of us here are PROVING that those who testified against her statement l.i.e.d.

I have personally proven that Shelley and Lovelady lied. (As have others.) All you have to do is read Officer Baker's first-day affidavit and WC testimony to see that he lied.  Several people lied in the coverup.

 

 

Sandy,

Interesting rebuttal.

Our and Prudhomme's discovery that Lovelady is visible on the front steps in Couch-Darnell (and Andrej's assertion that Shelley is visible there, too) tends to undermine the later statements of Lovelady and Shelly, which later statements cast serious doubt on Vicki Adams' memory and/or veracity.

--  TG

 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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From the perspective of the Walker-did-it CT, the main member that I fully agree with on this thread is David Von Pein.   

All of the TSBD employees told the truth to the WC, as they remembered it.   Not one of them outright lied.   Some were mistaken about timing, but that is normal under the circumstances (i.e. they were asked to testify months later).

To solve the JFK Assassination aporias, we must be finally willing -- after 55 years -- to recognize that it was (1) the Dallas Police Department heads; (2) select DPD detectives; (3) Sheriff Decker; (4) Dallas Deputies; (5) the Dallas FBI; (6) the Dallas Secret Service; (7) the Dallas Postmaster; and (8) anyone connected with General Walker, who outright lied.

Unless we focus on them, the JFK Assassination will remain as unsolved tomorrow as it was 55 years ago.   Put all this energy on the correct suspects!

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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