Did Shelley & Lovelady leave the TSBD steps before Officer Baker's arrival and then return?

[Sandy Larsen]

I am currently researching and writing this presentation. Please return when it is finished. Thanks!

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Quote

Alistair Briggs:

Sanders did say that she stayed on the steps a 'moment' and then went to the island for a 'moment' before returning - could her leaving have happened within the 30 seconds after the shots before Darnell caught the steps? Possibly. But it could have been after also! Or she could be in the process of leaving. It is unknown.

Buell Wesley Frazier, WC testimony:

Mr. BALL - Were you able to see the President, could you still see the President's car when you heard the first sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I couldn't. From there, you know, people were standing out there on the curb, you see, and you know it drops, you know the ground drops, off there as you go down toward that underpass and I couldn't see any of it because people were standing up there in my way, but however, when he did turn that corner there, there wasn't anybody standing there in the street and you could see good there, but after you got on past down there you couldn't see anything.
Mr. BALL - You didn't see the President's car at the time you heard the sound?
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BALL - But you stood right there, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right. Stood right where I was.
Mr. BALL - And Mr. Shelley was still standing there?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And also Billy Lovelady?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BALL - The three of you didn't go any place?
Mr. FRAZIER - I believe Billy and them walked down toward that direction but I didn't. I just stood where I was. I hadn't moved at all.
Mr. BALL - Did you see anybody after that come into the Building while you were there?
Mr. FRAZIER - You mean somebody other that didn't work there?
Mr. BALL - A police officer.
Mr. FRAZIER - No, sir; I stood there a few minutes, you know, and some people who worked there; you know normally started to go back into the Building because a lot of us didn't eat our lunch, and so we stared back into the Building and it wasn't but just a few minutes that there were a lot of police officers and so forth all over the Building there.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.
Mr. BALL - And before you went back into the Building no police officer came up the steps and into the building?
Mr. FRAZIER - Not that I know. They could walk by the way and I was standing there talking to somebody else and didn't see it.
Mr. BALL - Did anybody say anything about what had happened, did you hear anybody say anything about the President had been shot?
Mr. FRAZIER - Yes, sir; right before I went back, some girl who had walked down a little bit further where I was standing on the steps, and somebody come back and said somebody had shot President Kennedy.
Mr. BALL - Do you know who it was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - Sir?
Mr. BALL - Do you know who the girl was who told you that?
Mr. FRAZIER - She didn't tell me right directly but she just came back and more or less in a low kind of hollering she just told several people.
Mr. BALL - Then you went back into the Building, did you?
Mr. FRAZIER - Right.

Buell Wesley Frazier in a videotaped 7/13/13 interview conducted at the Sixth Floor Museum (aired on C-SPAN3), when asked if he saw Oswald after the shooting:

“I did. Um, this was I don’t know exactly how many minutes later, but the lady I was standing next to, um, some of the people Bill Shelly and Billy Lovelady they went down to the triple underpass, before they went down there a lady come by, a woman came by and she was crying and said that somebody had shot The President. And so we looked bewildered and  I turned to Sarah and she said she said somebody had shot The President. And I said I thought that was what she said. She said she did say that. So we stood there for a few minutes and I walked down to the first  step to where Billy was standing on the bottom of the steps and I looked around and it was just total chaos there and then from there I started to go down and see if I could find, um, Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady and there was so much chaos down there that I said well I better go back to work, go back to the steps and I did, I walked back to the bottom of the steps and then I walked out to the corner of the building where Houston comes up to the side of the building and I was talking to someone, a lady,  and I looked to my left and come walking along the side of the Texas School Book building was Lee Oswald. So he’d come around of the docks and he walks up and I am taking to this lady. He didn’t say anything and, um, he crosses Houston, I watch him cross Houston as I was talking to the lady and gets over to the other side of Houston and then he crosses Elm. And somebody said something to me and I turned and he was halfway across the street and when I turned he was gone in the crowd. I don’t know what happened to him. But I didn’t worry too much about that because, um, there were several places around there where you can go and eat a sandwich. And I remember asking him that morning when he was riding with me. Where is your lunch?  And he said oh I will buy off the truck today.”

 

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

Photoanalysis shows that Bill Shelley, Sarah Stanton, and Pauline Sanders left the TSBD stairway after the shots and before Officer Baker arrived.
(The following is adapted from an analysis done by Alistair Briggs, presented here, followed by a related post, here.)
 

Quote

Summary

Here is the list of all the people that said they were on the steps at the time of the shots - Davis, McCully, Dean, Reese, Sanders, Stanton, Jones, Frazier, Lovelady, Molina, Shelley, Williams.

The Altgens6 and Wiegman frame are close enough to each other and close enough in time to the shots to say that the following have been identified as being visible on the steps at the time of the shots - Davis, McCully, Dean, Reese, Jones, Lovelady, Molina, Shelley, Williams.

At the time of the shots then Sanders, Stanton and Frazier are all unseen. Why are they all unseen? They must be standing in the 'darkened' corner...

*By the time of the Darnell frame (approx. 30 seconds later) Davis, McCully, Dean, Reese, Molina, Williams can all still be seen in relatively the same position. It is said that Lovelady and Shelley by this time have left (I know your objections on that point ) and Jones has left (seen running across the road to the 'traffic lights pole'). So that's all of the ones seen at the time of the shots accounted for. In the Darnell frame Frazier is now seen (presumably after having moved out of the 'shadows'.

That just leaves Sanders and Stanton then.

BTW, Stanton is "heavyset" according to BWF's WC testimony.

 

A = Molina
B = Williams
C = Dean
D = Reese
E = Shelley
F = Lovelady
G = Jones
(NB: Frazier is not seen in these images because he is too much in the 'shade')

As we move on let us say that;
H = Frazier
I = Davis
J = McCully

At this junction here is the Couch/Darnell sync from which the 'Darnell frame' comes from. It is approx 30 seconds after the time of the 'Altgens6/Weigman frame' picture.

Couple of things to look out for there. First the two people walking away are claimed to be Shelley and Lovelady (*although there is some doubt about that) and secondly the man that arrives at the 'traffic light pole' is Jones.

Here is a quick image I knocked up of the Darnell frame on which I have put the letters on to match the people from the 'Altgens 6/Weigman frame' picture.

A (Molina), B (Williams), C (Dean) and D (Reese) haven't really moved that much in the previous 30 seconds. As mentioned above* E (Shelley) and F (Lovelady) have moved away from the steps and G (Jones) has made his way across to the 'traffic lights pole'. H (Frazier) has now 'come out of the shadows'.

Based on the location that Davis said she stood (on the lower steps) with McCully, and McCully said she was with Davis, I have I as Davis and J as McCully (but it might be the other way round to be honest).

*In the Darnell frame you can see 3 people in the position that Jones had been 30 seconds previously. None of them were in that position at the time of the shots, and from looking at the following gif an argument can be made that both 'all black' and 'all white' people are returning to the building (ie had been outwith that vicinity at the time of the shots. As for 'white head' person (Who appears to be facing down and talking to 'all black person), I don't know who it is or where they came from to be honest - (some people have made the claim that it is Lovelady and he hadn't left the steps by that time, but that could be a moot point in terms of this discussion anyway.)

 

It has to be stated that the 'Prayer Man' figure is viewable in both the Wiegman frame and the Darnell clip.

From looking at the photographic evidence of Altgens 6, Wiegman Frame and Darnell Frame, and cross referencing it with the 'testimony' of those who said they were on the steps at the time  it's reasonable to say that 10 of them have been identified; Molina, Williams, Dean, Reese, Shelley, Lovelady, Jones, Frazier, Davis and McCully.

Who is left over? Stanton and Sanders

If we look at what each of them said as to where they stood;

Stanton: says she was with Sanders, Shelley, Lovelady and Williams.
Sanders: says she took up a position on the top steps and that Stanton was standing next to her.

*Point of contention: Sanders said she was on the top step at the 'East' entrance!

*A point of interest; Molina: says he stood at the railings on the 'east side' of the building but does not recall who stood beside him but does know that Sanders viewed the motorcade.

As we look at the photographic evidence of the steps, the 'east side' is the right hand side as we look at it, and the 'west side' is the left hand side as we look at it.

Molina was certainly correct about being on the 'east side' as that is backed up by the photographic evidence, Sanders can't be beside him because he mentions her after saying that he does not recall who stood beside him! From the photographic evidence the two people that stood 'beside' him look to be Williams (up left as we look at it) and either Davis or McCully (down right as we look a it). So when Sanders said she was at the 'east' entrance that is not backed up by the photographic evidence...

... what if then, when Sanders said 'east' she actually meant the opposite side from where Molina is. How could she make such an error? Look at a compass, which side is East as you look at it? To the right hand side! What if, then, Sanders, when she said she was on the 'east' side she meant the 'right hand side' (from her perspective - facing out) and thus she was in real terms standing on the 'west side' of the steps.

Edited February 16, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

Needs proofreading:

According to Bill Shelley's and Billy Lovelady's 1963 statements (which I will present below), the two of them left the TSBD steps and ran across the Elm Street extension immediately after the shooting. They ran into their friend Gloria Calvery on the concrete island there, and they returned to the building. Shelley then went inside and called his wife. All this is consistent with what we see in the Darnell film.

In the following frame of the Darnell film-- the right half of the image -- we see Gloria Calvery speaking with Lovelady on the steps.  The left half of the image shows where Gloria had been observing the motorcade just 25 seconds earlier. (Thomas Graves and I were able to make this identification due to the matching clothing. The woman is all white is one of Gloria's friends, either Karan Hicks or Carol Reed.)

 

 

 

In this frame we can see Gloria and Lovelady standing face-to-face, no doubt engaged in conversation. At this point in time, Shelley and Lovelady had already crossed the street, run into Gloria, and run back to the steps with Gloria. Shelley has either already gone inside to call his wife, or is hidden on the steps.

This is important because it can be used to show that the WC changed their story in order to discredit the timing of Victoria Adam's story. She testified that she descended the steps shortly after the shooting. According the the WC's official story, Victoria should have seen or at least heard Oswald coming down the steps when she did. Yet she testified that she didn't.

The conflict between Victoria's testimony and the official story could not stand. The WC decided to make it look as though Victoria got her timing wrong, and that she came down the steps much later than she's said. Which would explain why she didn't see or hear Oswald coming down the steps.

The WC did two things to accomplish their goal. First, they made a slight change to Victoria's testimony. She had testified that she saw nobody upon exiting the stairway on the ground floor. The WC changed that to say that she saw Shelley and Lovelady. We know this for a fact because she told Barry Earnest so, which he recorded in his book The Girl on the Stairs.

The second thing the WC did was to get Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady to embellish their stories. It was necessary for them to enter the TSBD's west door for Gloria to see, and to have them do so a few minutes after the shooting.

The following list of statement given by the two and their WC testimonies show how their stories started out from being truthful to being the lie the WC required.

 

Billy Lovelady

     DPD Affidavit, 11/22/63
          http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0470-001.gif

"After [the shooting] was over we went back into the building...."

     FBI Report, 11/22/63
          http://www.prayer-man.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/FBI-Report-BNL-Nov-23-1963.jpg

"....immediately after hearing the shots {Lovelady] and Shelley started running towards the presidential car, but it sped away.... [They] then returned to the [TSBD]...."

      FBI Statement, 3/19/64
          http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf
          (See page 62.)

"....following the shooting, I ran toward the spot where President Kennedy's car had stopped. William Shelley and myself stayed in that area for approximately five minutes when we then re-entered the Depository building by the side door located on the west side of the building."

     WC Deposition, 4/7/64
          http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lovelady.htm
          https://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol6/page336.php

Paraphrasing for brevity's sake: "About three minutes after the shots, Gloria Calvery arrived. After speaking with her, [we] walked quickly to the railroad tracks, and then entered the west door of the TSBD."

 

Billy Lovelady's 1963 statements are in accordance to what we see in the Darnell film. But both of his 1964 statements contradict what we see in the film. And those 1964 statements contradict each other. As for where their time was spent, Lovelady's 3/19/64 statement has him and Shelley spending five minutes down where Kennedy's limo had stopped. His 4/7/64 testimony has him and Shelley spending three minutes on the steps before leaving.

 

 

Bill Shelley

     DPD Affidavit, 11/22/63
          http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/04/0492-001.gif

"I ran across the street to the corner of the park and ran into [Gloria Calvery].... I went back to the building and went inside and called my wife and told her what happened."

     FBI Statement, 3/18/64
          http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh22/pdf/WH22_CE_1381.pdf
          (See page 84.)

"Immediately following the shooting, Billy N. Lovelady and I accompanied some uniformed police officers to the railroad yard just west of the building and returned through the west side of the building about ten minutes later."

     WC Deposition, 4/7/64
          http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm
          https://www.jfk-assassination.com/warren/wch/vol6/page327.php

Paraphrasing for brevity's sake: "About three or four minutes after the shots, Gloria Calvery arrived. Billy Lovelady and I ran across the street to the concrete island and stopped for a minute. We then walked to the first railroad track and watched them searching for a while, after which we entered the west door of the TSBD."

 

Bill Shelley's 1963 statement is in accordance to what we see in the Darnell film. But both of his 1964 statements contradict what we see in the film. And those 1964 statements contradict each other. As for where their time was spent, Shelley's 3/18/64 statement has him and Lovelady spending ten minutes at the railroad yard. His 4/7/64 testimony has him and Lovelady spending three minutes on the steps before leaving.

So, in summary,

• Shelley and Lovelady's 1963 statements and the Darnell film are all consistent with each other. None of them mention the walk down to the railroad yard and entering the TSBD by way of the west entrance.
• Only in 1964 do their statements 1) mention the railroad yard, 2) mention waiting somewhere for several minutes, and 3) mention entering the west entrance of the TSBD. Those three elements were concocted to discredit Victoria Adams' timing.
• And so it's no big surprise that it's only the 1964 statements where all the irreconcilable inconsistencies are introduced.

 

Edited November 3, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Thomas Graves]

Sandy, Sandy, Sandy.

You don't think that's Lovelady on the steps directly below Prayer Person's right elbow in Couch / Darnell?

Conversely, where is Shelley?  Your "E" looks like he's broad-shouldered and wearing a hat in Weigman, and has a tie clip on his tie in Altgens 6.

--  Tommy

Edited February 16, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Sandy Larsen]

12 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

 

Dear Sandy,

You don't think that's Lovelady on the steps directly below Prayer Person's right elbow?

--  Tommy

Conversely, where is Shelley?  Your "E" looks like he's broad-shouldered and wearing a hat.

Tommy,

I do believe that that is Lovelady just below PM in the Darnell frame.

The hypothesis I will be presenting here will show that Shelley, Lovelady, Pauline Sanders, and probably also Sarah Stanton, all left the steps, and momentarily crossed over to the concrete island (where the traffic light is) in order to get a better view of what was going on. They didn't all go at the same time, but close to. Meanwhile Gloria Calvery was going the opposite direction, to the TSBD steps. She passed Shelley at the island, and I think Lovelady at the steps (because Lovelady hadn't left yet). Calvery may have beat Marrion Baker to the steps area. It could be that Lovelady hadn't even left the steps yet when we see him there in Darnell.

I'm collecting testimony and studying it so that I can work out the details.

But right now it is my belief that Shelley and Lovelady reentered the front door of the TSBD. They went only to the concrete island, not the RR yard, and then returned to the steps and entered the TSBD.

I now believe that Shelley and Lovelady DID lie for the WC. Their stories (including waiting 3 minute for Gloria Calvery to arrive) match each others' because they were rehearsed.

To answer you question specifically, Shelley isn't seen in Darnell because he has either gone back inside to call his wife (after returning from a quick visit to the island), or he is still out there trying to get a better view.

As for the identification E being Shelley, I've had my doubts about that too. I've wondered if Shelley isn't really B, in which case E would have to be Williams.

[Alistair Briggs]

Best of luck to you Sandy.

I look forward to what you come up with about Stanton...

*Wouldn't it have been great if when all these people gave their 'testimony they had their photos taken. lol Would make life a lot easier for us.

btw, see how in the wider weigman frame there is a row of people out front, I have been doing some digging about to find names to go with them, and then trying to 'match' them up with the Darnell clip... might be of some use in determining whether say, someone like Sanders had left in the interim.

 

[Lawrence Schnapf]

why would they lie about going to the railyard?

[Sandy Larsen]

On 10/31/2017 at 6:48 PM, Lawrence Schnapf said:

why would [Shelley & Lovelady] lie about going to the railyard?

 

According to Victoria Adams' testimony, she descended the stairway shortly after the shooting. The very same stairway the WC said Oswald descended. Yet she neither saw nor heard Oswald coming down the stairs. How could that be?

That was a conflict the WC had to eliminate. They did so by showing that Victoria was wrong about the timing of her descent. In her testimony she said that she saw no one on the first floor upon exiting the stairway. The WC altered her testimony, having her say that she saw Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady. (Victoria Adams herself said this alteration was made.)

The WC needed two things from Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Adams' timing. They needed the two to arrive through the west door of the TSBD where Victoria would have a plain view of them; and they needed them to arrive several minutes after the shooting, as this would show the timing of Victoria's descent was later than she'd claimed. They did this by having the two walk to the railway yard, from where entering the TSBD's west door would be a natural thing to do. And they delayed their arrival by having them remain on the front steps for three minutes after the shooting took place. They said that this is when their friend Gloria Calvery arrived at the steps.

What happened in reality is revealed by the Darnell film and by Shelley and Lovelady's first-day statements. In the following frame of the Darnell film we see Gloria Calvery speaking with Lovelady on the steps approximately 25 seconds after the shooting:

 

 

We can see Gloria and Lovelady standing face-to-face, no doubt engaged in conversation.

In Bill Shelley's first-day statement, he said that after the shooting he immediately crossed the Elm Street extension and bumped into Gloria Calvery at the concrete island there. He said they returned to the TSBD and he went inside to call his wife. We can see above that by the time of this frame -- ~25 seconds after the shooting -- Shelley had already crossed the street, bumped into Gloria, crossed back over with her, and gone inside to call his wife.

IN CONTRAST, IN HIS WC TESTIMONY HE SAID HE WAITED AT THE STEPS FOR GLORIA TO ARRIVE!  FOR THREE MINUTES!

Neither Shelley nor Lovelady mention the trip to the west door of the TSBD in their first-day statements.

The reason both Shelley and Lovelady "estimate" the 25 seconds to be three minutes is because they were coached from the same script.

 

[Andrej Stancak]

Sandy:

I think you made an important point with Billy Lovelady being still on steps in Darnell when he encounter Gloria Calvery. Previously, I thought the two men seen in Couch film would be Shelley and Lovelady, however, your work made me to change my mind. I am sure that Barry Ernest would be very pleased with your finding.

Bill Shelley should not be far from the steps either. Did you find  in any of Darnell's stills a man resembling Shelley and walking towards the grassy knoll ?

 

Edited November 2, 2017 by Andrej Stancak

[Sandy Larsen]

21 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Sandy:

I think you made an important point with Billy Lovelady being still on steps in Darnell when he encounter Gloria Calvery. Previously, I thought the two men seen in Couch film would be Shelley and Lovelady, however, your work made me to change my mind. I am sure that Barry Ernest would be very pleased with your finding.

 

Thanks Andrej. Thomas Graves and I made those discoveries together.

 

21 minutes ago, Andrej Stancak said:

Bill Shelley should not be far from the steps either. Did you find  in any of Darnell's stills a man resembling Shelley and walking towards the grassy knoll ?

I did not see anybody who looked like Bill Shelley going toward the knoll. But that didn't surprise me at all because Shelley said in his first-day affidavit that he ran across the street right after the shooting, bumped into Gloria Calvery there at the concrete island, and then went back to the TSBD and called his wife. He didn't specifically say in that particular affidavit, but Gloria also went to the steps. (She was running toward the TSBD when she and Shelley met. And then we see her there in Darnell.) So in Darnell, I expected to see Shelley back on or near the steps. Either that or not at all, because he may have already gone inside to call his wife. Since we can't find him near the steps, he's either gone inside or is hidden behind somebody.

 

[Andrej Stancak]

Sandy:

Kudos to both Thomas Graves and yourself then. From the two options, Shelley being already at the concrete island or still standing on the top landing, I would vote for the latter. The human figure next to Buell Frazier about at the centre of the top landing may be actually two people with the taller Shelley standing closer to the glass door. Of course, this is difficult if not impossible to prove.

 

[Thomas Graves]

On 11/2/2017 at 1:05 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

According to Victoria Adams' testimony, she descended the stairway shortly after the shooting. The very same stairway the WC said Oswald descended. Yet she neither saw nor heard Oswald coming down the stairs. How could that be?

That was a conflict the WC had to eliminate. They did so by showing that Victoria was wrong about the timing of her descent. In her testimony she said that she saw no one on the first floor upon exiting the stairway. The WC altered her testimony, having her say that she saw Bill Shelley and Billy Lovelady. (Victoria Adams herself said this alteration was made.)

The WC needed two things from Shelley and Lovelady to discredit Adams' timing. They needed the two to arrive through the west door of the TSBD where Victoria would have a plain view of them; and they needed them to arrive several minutes after the shooting, as this would show the timing of Victoria's descent was later than she'd claimed. They did this by having the two walk to the railway yard, from where entering the TSBD's west door would be a natural thing to do. And they delayed their arrival by having them remain on the front steps for three minutes after the shooting took place. They said that this is when their friend Gloria Calvery arrived at the steps.

What happened in reality is revealed by the Darnell film and by Shelley and Lovelady's first-day statements. In the following frame of the Darnell film we see Gloria Calvery speaking with Lovelady on the steps approximately 25 seconds after the shooting:

 

 

We can see Gloria and Lovelady standing face-to-face, no doubt engaged in conversation.

In Bill Shelley's first-day statement, he said that after the shooting he immediately crossed the Elm Street extension and bumped into Gloria Calvery at the concrete island there. He said they returned to the TSBD and he went inside to call his wife. We can see above that by the time of this frame -- ~25 seconds after the shooting -- Shelley had already crossed the street, bumped into Gloria, crossed back over with her, and gone inside to call his wife.

IN CONTRAST, IN HIS WC TESTIMONY HE SAID HE WAITED AT THE STEPS FOR GLORIA TO ARRIVE!  FOR THREE MINUTES!

Neither Shelley nor Lovelady mention the trip to the west door of the TSBD in their first-day statements.

The reason both Shelley and Lovelady "estimate" the 25 seconds to be three minutes is because they were coached from the same script.

 

It's been awhile, and Bart and I are kinda debating it on FB at the moment, so I'm bumping it.
-- Tommy 

Edited January 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Mervyn Hagger]

What is your current interpretation of the questions originally raised in 1964 by Jones Harris?

[Guest]

Ain't no debate Tommy.

How can Calvery and co be on the stairs 20 seconds after the final shot when she still has to meet Bill Shelley across (who is seen walking over there in the same film)

Nor has anyone been able to pinpoint her exact location/outfit for 54 years and counting.

[Thomas Graves]

On 1/20/2018 at 3:41 AM, Bart Kamp said:

Ain't no debate Tommy.

How can Calvery and co be on the stairs 20 seconds after the final shot when she still has to meet Bill Shelley across (who is seen walking over there in the same film)

Nor has anyone been able to pinpoint her exact location/outfit for 54 years and counting.

 

Bart,

Where do YOU think Calvary was standing during the motorcade?  Do you agree that researchers confused Calvery and Hicks and Reed with Jacob, Holt, and Simmons for many years due to their being mislabeled on Roberdeau's map and in certain "stills" and film clips?

What makes you think Sandy and I haven't found her in the Z-film?  She's too tall, not tall enough?  Her name isn't written on her sweater/coat in big bold white letters, for positive identification purposes?

Does she look large and tall in her wedding photo?

 

*If* Sandy and I are right that she was standing a few feet down the sidewalk from the "R L Thornton Freeway" sign, near two guys, Templin and Brandt (who are correctly marked on Roberdeau's map), how far would she have had to walk to get to the steps? Thirty yards?  Sixty? One hundred? Two hundred? A quarter of a mile?

--  Tommy 

Edited March 26, 2018 by Thomas Graves