Marina, the Commission, and Mexico City

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Paul T

The only accomplishment of Simpich is that he gave plausible deniability to the CIA. This is not an impersonation, it´s a mole hunt. And a mole was never found.

He has done nothing to further our knowledge of the Kennedy assassination. Yet you act as if Simpich solved the Kennedy assassination.

DiEugenio, Salandria, Mark Lane among many have done much more than Simpich to help solve this mystery. They deserve respect and praise, not Simpich.

George,

I respectfully disagree.   Mark Lane, Salandria and DiEugenio have all failed to solve the JFK assassination mystery.

Their CIA-did-it bias has confused the issue hopelessly.

Bill Simpich did not solve the JFK mystery -- but he did demonstrate -- conclusively IMHO -- that the CIA had no clue about the JFK assassination.

Somebody in the CIA (probably David Morales) went off the reservation -- went rogue -- and impersonated Lee Harvey Oswald over the telephone in Mexico City, trying to link the name of Lee Harvey Oswald to KGB assassin Valeriy Kostikov.

Some people still believe that LHO did contact Kostikov.   Yet today Bill Simpich has placed JFK research on a scientific footing.   Nobody else has done that until SImpich.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 9, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[James DiEugenio]

PT  the CIA had no clue about the JFK assassination.

 

HA HA HA LOL  ROTF

James Angleton:  "A mansion has many rooms.  I was not privy to who struck John."  

Angleton's Howard Hunt memo. 

Allen Dulles lobbying to get on the WC and then becoming its most active member.

Phillips, Hunt, Dulles and Harvey all in Dallas in the weeks leading up to the JFK murder.

Anne Goodpasture changing the day that the Russian KGB agent was there in order to link his pic to the phony LHO phone call.  And lying about her role in the surveillance of both embassies.

Phillips running the CIA anti FPCC campaign which Oswald was a part of, likely being  in Banister's office, and then seen in Dallas with LHO in early September of 1963.

Repeat:  there is not one thing in the Lopez Report about a molehunt.  Period.  And Goodpsture lied her head off about the Mystery Man photo and the tapes also.

JIm DiEugenio:  Who was Anne Goodpasture?

Ed Lopez: She is a lying conniving bitch, and if there was any justice in this world she would be in jail.

JIm DiEugenio:  But who was she?

Ed Lopez:  She would help Phillips run his operations.  He was always flying around from Jm Wave to Langley to Mexico.  So when he was gone, she would help him run his ops. 

And she then lied her head off about this to Dan and Eddie.  To the point that they wanted to indict them both.  

 

 

 

 

Edited March 9, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Brancato]

Paul - you continue to overstate Simpich's opinions. Even he left open the door to Phillips knowing what was up and being involved. And even he left open the possibility that Oswald never made it to MC. Other fine researchers with longer track records than Simpich see things differently. You also keep lumping theories into 'CIA did it', when you're the only person that calls those of us that disagree with you 'CIA did it theorists'. Simpich simply said that after Oswald was impersonated the CIA appears not to know who did it, and falsified records (Goodpasture) to smoke out the perpetrator. He knows there are other possible explanations, and you should also, the most obvious being CYA. Newman, an incredible and still very active researcher, thinks it was Angleton that ordered the falsifications, and not because he was confused, but because he was running a sophisticated deniable operation, piggybacking on an already existing one, most likely the anti FPCC effort that Oswald was clearly part of. 

[Paul Trejo]

Simpich seems to underestimate his historical role.  

As for E. Howard Hunt, he confessed to a minor role in the JFK assassination; on the"sidelines" he said to his son.

David Morales also confessed to his good friend Ruben Carbajal.

Yet that is all that the CIA-did-it CTers have provided after fifty solid years -- a damn half-century.

Hunt admitted that Frank Sturgis invited him -- but Sturgis was a mere mercenary.

Frank Sturgis boasted about his role, but he was not a CIA agent.

Neither was Johnny Martino.

Neither was David Ferrie.  

Neither was Gerry Patrick Hemming.  And so on.

The JFK plot was a CIVILIAN plot by the Radical Right in the USA.

Joachim Joesten realized that in 1967.  Why can't the CIA-did-it CTers see that in 2017?

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos

[Paul Brancato]

And every person you just mentioned was CIA, whether contract, agent, whatever - all CIA connected. But CIA is not a monolith, nor disconnected from the military or the government. Plenty of far right folks on board in all areas of Government, elected and appointed. No impenetrable line between current and former in any branch. It's too pat Paul, too neat. 

[Michael Clark]

2 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

And every person you just mentioned was CIA, whether contract, agent, whatever - all CIA connected. But CIA is not a monolith, nor disconnected from the military or the government. Plenty of far right folks on board in all areas of Government, elected and appointed. No impenetrable line between current and former in any branch. It's too pat Paul, too neat. 

And typical. find a gay man, with no family, no ancestry, no progeny, an outsider even among his peers, and lay the blame on him.  Like then USS Iowa turret explosion, the Navy initially blamed the incident on a sailor whom they claimed to be a homosexual.

[Thomas Graves]

On 3/8/2017 at 6:32 AM, Paul Trejo said:

LHO was at the home of Sylvia Odio about September 23, 1963, along with two men.

Sylvia Odio says one looked Cuban and did most of the fast talking, and the other looked Mexican.

That describes Loran Hall, a Cuban-American, and Larry Howard, a Mexican-American.  Harry Dean, who  knew both men, will confirm that.

The three men entered Mexico by car the next day .  See Mexico Immigration records.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Didn't someone say one of the men had long hair and looked like a beatnik?

--  Tommy 

[Thomas Graves]

On 3/8/2017 at 3:59 PM, George Sawtelle said:

Jim

It had to be military intelligence. Use logic and deduction, more deduction.

It wasn´t the CIA. Philips controlled Oswald. He could have sent him to MC. Why impersonate him?

It wasn´t Hoover. He was pissed because he was kept in the dark.

But it was the military. This caper, the impersonation of Oswald, was classic Operation Northwoods (blame Castro for JFK´s death so we justify to all that Cuba is to be wiped out). Operation Northwoods was Lymnitzer´s baby.

"Why impersonate him?"

How else could the bad guys get Oswald's name associated with Kostikov's?

There's also the possibility that the reason they impersonated him so badly was because they wanted the CIA and Mexican listeners to realize that an impersonation had taken place.

So that a mole hunt manipulated by them and involving Oswald would be started.

--  Tommy 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Paul Brancato]

Tommy - interesting idea. 

[Paul Brancato]

Michael - Oswald was gay? I didn't say that. I am aware of the bits of evidence pointing in that direction, but I haven't signed on to the idea he was a homosexual. 

[Michael Clark]

37 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Michael - Oswald was gay? I didn't say that. I am aware of the bits of evidence pointing in that direction, but I haven't signed on to the idea he was a homosexual. 

I was referring to General Walker. 

I was following-on in your response to Paul Trejo.

Oswald had a wife, kids, mother, brother.

 

Edited March 10, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Brancato]

Why didn't I see that? Oops

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, Paul Brancato said:

And every person you just mentioned was CIA, whether contract, agent, whatever - all CIA connected. But CIA is not a monolith, nor disconnected from the military or the government. Plenty of far right folks on board in all areas of Government, elected and appointed. No impenetrable line between current and former in any branch. It's too pat Paul, too neat. 

Paul B.,

You are actually making my point for me.   All of these Radical Right mercenaries were also known to be hired assassins for the CIA in Cuba Raid groups like Interpen.  

But they were never CIA agents.   Some of them may have thought they.   Many of them actually boasted that they were.  (Johnny Roselli comes to mind.)

But they weren't.

The great Jim Garrison was misled by this.   The great Joan Mellen was misled by this.  

These characters were cartoon bad guys -- slobs and killers.  They were riff raff and they knew it.  Frank Sturgis was probably their idol.

It is futile to claim that Frank Stugis was a CIA agent, taking orders from the CIA high-command -- when he really was no such thing.   Frank Sturgis took orders from the person who was paying him at that particular time.   And it had to be on the Radical Right of politics.  Then he would take the money.   So, really, Frank Sturgis took orders from nobody but Frank Sturgis.

The same goes for all these other mercenaries whom Joan Mellen (following Jim Garrison) has eloquently argued were CIA agents -- when really they were, at most, part-time hired guns for some misguided CIA agent.

Loran Hall, former Interpen member, is a case in point.   Rumor has it that after the Cuba Raid scam dried up, Loran Hall kept moving "medical supplies," which turned out to be speed, and he made bookoo bucks.  Loran then became hooked on speed, and news stories suggest that his son did, too.  When busted, the son, like his father, claimed that the CIA had ordered him to move these drugs.

At this point, Paul B., our argument has become about small-points.  We both believe the same guys killed JFK, but you say they were CIA, and I say they were part of a Civilian Radical Right conspiracy.   The evidence is on my side.  You need to make stuff up to move them to your side.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

3 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Didn't someone say one of the men had long hair and looked like a beatnik?

--  Tommy 

Tommy,

In mid-September 1963, Loran Hall was stopped by the DPD for driving around Dallas with his trailer, for "looking like a beatnik," and arrested for having a few pep pills in his glove compartment. 

This is in actual Dallas police records.  It's a long story, repeated in the National Enquirer (1964).   Loran Hall's hair was a tiny bit long and shaggy, because he hadn't had a haircut in a few weeks, and he was letting his beard grow, because he was on the road.

The context is that Loran Hall had just come from Southern California, where Harry Dean had helped Loran and Larry Howard load their trailer full of weapons and "medical supplies" for the Cuba Raid Groups in New Orleans and Miami.  These were donations from well-heeled JBS members there.

Also, Loran often drove around with Larry Howard, who was a hairy Mexican-American type -- so possibly a "beatnik," too. 

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

2 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

"Why impersonate him?"

How otherwise could the the bad guys get Oswald's name associated with Kostikov's?

There's also the possibility that the reason they impersonated him so badly was because they wanted the CIA and Mexican listeners to realize that an impersonation had taken place.

So that a mole hunt manipulated by them and involving Oswald would be started.

--  Tommy 

Tommy,

I don't think David Morales wanted the Mole Hunt.  The JFK Killers only wanted a CIA record to link the names of Lee Harvey Oswald and KGB assassin Kostikov.  This was part of framing Oswald.

The framing began in New Orleans, and it ended in Mexico City.   That should be plain as day.

Then, after JFK was killed, the CIA could stand up and say, "Look what WE have!"   As Hardway-Lopez concluded -- if LHO really did speak with Kostikov in Mexico City, then it would be 100% certain that the USSR killed JFK.

But David Morales botched his mission.  The CIA high-command instead started a Mole Hunt, and altered Oswald's 201 File -- which only confused J. Edgar Hoover and the rest of America, down to this very day.   Fumble.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited March 10, 2017 by Paul Trejo