TWO MARGUERITE OSWALDS -- NEW DETAILS

[W. Tracy Parnell]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

James and Elsie Wilcott didn't become associated with Covert Action magazine until 1978, 15 years after Agent Oswald allegedly killed JFK.  And don't you even read your own sources?

In fact, of course, the law had its desired chilling effect on the major media as well. Very few people knew of, much less accepted, Floyd Abrams’s assurances that the law would only be used against Covert Action, and in the ensuing twenty-five years or so, virtually no undercover CIA officers have been named in the media. Except, of course, for Valerie Plame, and no matter what the law says, the government was not about to prosecute the vice-president.

Do you think that learning you, working as a CIA accountant, had personally paid the CIA operative who allegedly killed the President of the United States might make you a little angry at your former employer?  How does this make him, in your words, a lunatic? 

Wilcott underwent a progression from disgruntled employee to activist to extremist starting in the early sixties. 1978 was the year he hit the big time co-founding Covert Action and making his trip to Cuba. But he was mad at the CIA even before JFK was killed. I would probably be mad at the CIA too if I had paid off LHO and he was a covert operative. But there is no evidence of that and Wilcott himself had none. His misinterpreted what he saw and heard because of his belief system.  A lunatic to me is an irrational person and I believe his later actions fit that description.

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Yesterday with a 12:51 PM (EF time) edit to his 9:47 AM post, W. Tracy Parnell wrote (emphasis added) :  “I have uncovered even more information on Wilcott (the guy was a lunatic) so I will be doing another update.”

.... U.S. Army veteran James Wilcott repeatedly “complained of a backache,” once got drunk and arrested for getting info a fight with a “guy with a long criminal record,” was “very naive,” and sometimes did “inappropriate laughing,” and, even worse, would sometimes “grin at odd times and chuckle at others.”

It is this kind of writing that tells me that Tracy has no interest in learning the truth. His aim is to discredit anybody whose testimony contradicts what he believes to be the truth. (I have no idea how Tracy derives "his" truth. Maybe he is one who believes everything the government reports.)

And his weapon of choice is character assassination.

This is how I knew he was an LNer.

[Sandy Larsen]

16 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

You know perfectly well there is no real evidence that the HSCA interviewed any of the CIA Tokyo station personnel mentioned by Wilcott.

Jim, just to be clear...

Did the HSCA report that they interviewed the 18 (or 20) CIA personnel about Wilcott's allegations?

(I'm not sure if you're saying that the HSCA didn't interview them, or that the HSCA did report that they interviewed them but that there is no evidence that they really did.)

[W. Tracy Parnell]

7 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It is this kind of writing that tells me that Tracy has no interest in learning the truth. His aim is to discredit anybody whose testimony contradicts what he believes to be the truth. (I have no idea how Tracy derives "his" truth. Maybe he is one who believes everything the government reports.)

And his weapon of choice is character assassination.

This is how I knew he was an LNer.

I don’t consider my approach “character assassination.” Who Wilcott was has a bearing on what he says.

My view is this. He goes in the Army and has some trouble there. He enters the CIA and soon has more trouble-he starts hanging around with left-wing types and gets arrested. Before JFK is even killed he is already disgruntled with the CIA by his own admission. When JFK is killed, he hears gossip at the station, but he never reports it or does anything about it nor does he go to the Warren Commission. Chris Dodd called him out on this at his testimony asking him as a JFK supporter if he really felt he had witnessed something sinister why not report it? Of course, the reason is he knew what he heard was just rumors.

By 1968, his political views have progressed to the point where he starts talking about the JFK case to small publications. 10 years later in 1978, he has progressed to an extremist and co-founds Covert Action. By now his “memory” of the assassination has evolved (studies prove this happens with people) and he testifies before the HSCA although, of course, he has no proof. But he knows there is an audience for his allegations.

So, it is not “character assassination” at all, but rather a reasonable explanation for Wilcott’s possible motives.

[Jim Hargrove]

Sandy,

Below is a reproduction of pp. 199-200 of the HSCA report, as reproduced in Oswald and the CIA by John Newman.  As you read what the HSCA reported, keep in mind what we have already learned from the HSCA’s own notes of interviews with Mr. Wilcott and his long-suppressed testimony, and note how the report writers misrepresented and flat-out lied about the information Wilcott gave them.

For example, the report indicated that Wilcott viewed the information as mere “shop talk” when, in fact, he testified just the opposite.  The report told us that he was unable to “recall the agency cryptonym for the particular project in which Oswald had been involved,” when, according to the HSCA’s own notes, he said the cryptonym was RX-ZIM.  There is much more disinformation packed into these two pages.

As to to your question asking if the HSCA reported they interviewed 18 or so CIA personnel about Wilcott’s accusations, note the lawyerly weasel words in the paragraph beginning “In an attempt to investigate Wilcott’s allegations….”  Other than this, in a document with demonstrable falsehoods on these exact two pages, I see no reason to believe the HSCA actually interviewed anyone Wilcott named from the Tokyo station.

If any interviews actually were conducted, where are the transcripts or even the notes?  What were the dates and locations of these interviews?  Were there attorneys present?  What were their names?  There is nothing… nada… to make me believe the HSCA wanted to learn anything more about Wilcott than to make his accusations go away.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

4 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

For example, the report indicated that Wilcott viewed the information as mere “shop talk” when, in fact, he testified just the opposite.  The report told us that he was unable to “recall the agency cryptonym for the particular project in which Oswald had been involved,” when, according to the HSCA’s own notes, he said the cryptonym was RX-ZIM.

The HSCA used the language "shop talk" Wilcott did not. But he did refer to what he heard as "speculation" just not in reference to the reason why he did not report what he heard. The notes are from an unknown source and therefore worthless regarding the cryptonym. And Wilcott certainly did say he was unable to recall the cryptonym:

------------

Mr. Goldsmith. And what did he tell you the cryptonym
was?

Mr. Wilcott. I cannot remember.

Mr. Cornwell. Do you remember anything about it?

Mr. Wilcott. Not at this time. I can't remember what
it was.

Mr. Cornwell. All you can recall is that, when you

heard it, that was not the first occasion on which you had
seen it or heard it?

Mr. Wilcott. That is correct, sir.

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

But from the HSCA's own contemporaneous notes it is obvious Mr. Wilcott did remember the RX-ZIM cryptonym, for example, leaving two possibilities for his testimony: it was altered by the HSCA, and that is one of the reasons it was suppressed for more than two decades, or Wilcott and the HSCA attorneys made some sort of deal allowing him to testify leaving out some details.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

51 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

But from the HSCA's own contemporaneous notes it is obvious Mr. Wilcott did remember the RX-ZIM cryptonym, for example, leaving two possibilities for his testimony: it was altered by the HSCA, and that is one of the reasons it was suppressed for more than two decades, or Wilcott and the HSCA attorneys made some sort of deal allowing him to testify leaving out some details.

Well, you can certainly say that and altered evidence (without proof) is one of the common CT claims. But why not just continue to "suppress" the testimony or simply destroy it? We know from documents that Antonio Veciana apparently testified before the Church Committee but that is evidently missing. But there is no outcry about that because the odds are that the testimony would hurt rather than help his case since Fonzi made no (or little) mention of it in his HSCA writeup. The point is some things are missing but CTs do not assign sinister meaning to all of them-just some. To your other point, why no "deathbed confession" from Wilcott regarding any secret agreement? He was known for bucking the system and certainly would have done this at some point. And again, why do MFF and Newman not recognize the cryptonym?

Edited March 27, 2017 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Sandy Larsen]

4 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Sandy,

Below is a reproduction of pp. 199-200 of the HSCA report, as reproduced in Oswald and the CIA by John Newman.  As you read what the HSCA reported, keep in mind what we have already learned from the HSCA’s own notes of interviews with Mr. Wilcott and his long-suppressed testimony, and note how the report writers misrepresented and flat-out lied about the information Wilcott gave them.

For example, the report indicated that Wilcott viewed the information as mere “shop talk” when, in fact, he testified just the opposite.  The report told us that he was unable to “recall the agency cryptonym for the particular project in which Oswald had been involved,” when, according to the HSCA’s own notes, he said the cryptonym was RX-ZIM.  There is much more disinformation packed into these two pages.

As to to your question asking if the HSCA reported they interviewed 18 or so CIA personnel about Wilcott’s accusations, note the lawyerly weasel words in the paragraph beginning “In an attempt to investigate Wilcott’s allegations….”  Other than this, in a document with demonstrable falsehoods on these exact two pages, I see no reason to believe the HSCA actually interviewed anyone Wilcott named from the Tokyo station.

If any interviews actually were conducted, where are the transcripts or even the notes?  What were the dates and locations of these interviews?  Were there attorneys present?  What were their names?  There is nothing… nada… to make me believe the HSCA wanted to learn anything more about Wilcott than to make his accusations go away.

Jim,

I certainly don't trust the HSCA's report. The report states that the entrance wound to the back of Kennedy's head was near the cowlick. That in spite of the fact that the autopsy docs themselves all said it was three inches lower, near the external occipital protuberance! That tells me everything I need to know about the HSCA and their report.

So I, like you, don't trust the statement in the report that those 18 or 20 CIA employees were interviewed and that they denied Wilcott's assertions. (Where the heck did those numbers -- 18 or 20 -- come from anyway?)

And you're right... the report misrepresents Wilcott's testimony. Wilcott DID believe there was an Oswald project. He believed that some of the talk was speculation, but not all of it.

[BTW, isn't it true that Wilcott did say in his testimony that he couldn't remember the project's cryptonym?] (Already answered.)

 

Edited March 27, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

But from the HSCA's own contemporaneous notes it is obvious Mr. Wilcott did remember the RX-ZIM cryptonym, for example, leaving two possibilities for his testimony: it was altered by the HSCA, and that is one of the reasons it was suppressed for more than two decades, or Wilcott and the HSCA attorneys made some sort of deal allowing him to testify leaving out some details.

I believe that that was said to be the case in the same document you posted that reveals the cryptonym.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

This should kill the idea that the HSCA conducted no interviews regarding the Wilcott matter. These are notes from the interview of Fred Randall who was Tokyo Deputy Chief of Station:

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=32694#relPageId=2&tab=page

Randall didn't remember much about Wilcott and had not heard of the LHO allegations. But he WAS interviewed. Unless you think CT hero Dan Hardway, who conducted the interview along with Harold Leap is lying.

[Jim Hargrove]

OK, Tracy, fair enough.  I didn't know those notes existed.  And so Mr. Hardway apparently spoke to one CIA man who, not surprisingly, denied Oswald worked for the CIA.  There should be more interviews or at least more interview notes.  Can you point to them?

[W. Tracy Parnell]

6 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

OK, Tracy, fair enough.  I didn't know those notes existed.  And so Mr. Hardway apparently spoke to one CIA man who, not surprisingly, denied Oswald worked for the CIA.  There should be more interviews or at least more interview notes.  Can you point to them?

No more notes, but there are other discussions about the interviews. 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

I found more details on how Wilcott found out about the "LHO project" and about his opinion of the agency:

In September, 1978, Wilcott excoriated the CIA during an interview he gave to liberal journalist Warren Hinckle. Wilcott told Hinckle that the agency was "a perverse place of sexual blackmail, betraying friends, unleashing psychopaths, and hobnobbing with mobsters, of pseudonyms and cryptonyms, drunkards and ripoff artists, dirty money and dirty tricks and run-amok assassins, a place where error and folly were held sacred in the almighty name of secrecy."

The true source of the "shop talk" that the HSCA had charitably described and which led to Wilcott learning of the LHO "project" also became clear in this interview. Wilcott claimed that the CIA made scotch available at 75 cents a bottle. "At those prices" Wilcott quipped, "you almost couldn't afford not to drink." Hinckle reported "It was during these after-hours drinking sessions that Wilcott became aware of the nature of many secret CIA operations normally hidden by cryptonyms." It is probably not surprising that Wilcott couldn't remember who told him about LHO.

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

I found more details on how Wilcott found out about the "LHO project" and about his opinion of the agency:

In September, 1978, Wilcott excoriated the CIA during an interview he gave to liberal journalist Warren Hinckle. Wilcott told Hinckle that the agency was "a perverse place of sexual blackmail, betraying friends, unleashing psychopaths, and hobnobbing with mobsters, of pseudonyms and cryptonyms, drunkards and ripoff artists, dirty money and dirty tricks and run-amok assassins, a place where error and folly were held sacred in the almighty name of secrecy."

The true source of the "shop talk" that the HSCA had charitably described and which led to Wilcott learning of the LHO "project" also became clear in this interview. Wilcott claimed that the CIA made scotch available at 75 cents a bottle. "At those prices" Wilcott quipped, "you almost couldn't afford not to drink." Hinckle reported "It was during these after-hours drinking sessions that Wilcott became aware of the nature of many secret CIA operations normally hidden by cryptonyms." It is probably not surprising that Wilcott couldn't remember who told him about LHO.

Tracy’s hard at work again with his usual character assassinations.  It is abundantly clear that Mr. Wilcott remembered just about everyone at the Tokyo CIA station long after he worked there between 1960-1964.  
 

 

No doubt Tracy will soon have Mr. Wilcot murdering widows and orphans and torturing ponies and unicorns, as I predicted earlier.

Whether Wilcott wouldn’t name names during his secret testimony to protect his fellow workers, or though some lawyerly agreement, or whether his words were altered before being suppressed for two decades, we’ll never know.  

And don’t tell me these government non-investigations don’t alter testimony and change witnesses words.

 

 

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