Alistair Briggs Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 3 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: If you've ever tried to think of an alias for yourself, Alistair, perhaps your experience is like mine. I ruminate over names of people I already know, and make combinations of first and last names that I have never seen matched before. Not an alias for myself, well, not in a 'clandestine' way at least. lol But yeah, over the years I have, when writing stories had to come up with names for people and the way you have suggested there of taking a combination of first and last names never seen matched before is a good tactic. (Football (soccer) players is a very good source material, I find). Another way I have done it in the past is to think of 'rhymes' or 'anagrams' - I remember coming up with a set of brothers I named Malcolm Trent and Percy Trent (their personas were going to be 'malcontent' and 'persistent' lol), and I remember coming up with the name of Faith Skies when writing some 'spoof' articles (tis an anagram of This Is Fake). 4 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: I think that Oswald wanted an alias in order to enter clandestine politics underground -- at his own decision. I think Oswald tried to think of name for his alias, and he thought of the name "Alek" because of a Russian pal in Minsk named "Alek." Perhaps it's a bit more, how shall I put this... more 'intricate' than that, more 'detailed' than that... in essence I don't think you are wrong, it's just there is much more to it than how you have painted it there... I shall try to explain... As for the name Alek - that was a name that he used whilst in Russia. There are plenty of examples out there that make note of the friends he had in Russia calling him Alek (or Alik). Here are a few examples (link to source in blue); Quote Example 1: From a Radio Free Europe Radio Liberty interview with Inessa Yakhliel RFE/RL: Alek? Was that how you called Lee Harvey Oswald? Yakhliel: Yes. Alek. Everyone who knew him at the time called him Alek. Example 2: From an article written by Peter Vronsky ...several people when looking at the photo of Oswald and Marina, said, "Oh, that is Alek (as Oswald was known in Russia) with Marina's best friend, Lucy." Another person came right out and told me that there was a famous photo of Oswald with Lucy that was mistakenly described as Oswald with Marina. Example 3: From translation of Warren Commission exhibit no 933 Sasha was with his friends from the Institute. One of his friends introduced me to Lee, calling him Alik (all his friends, and the people with whom he worked, called him Alik, in that way rebaptising him with a Russian name, since the name Lee sounds too unusual in Russian). Where did the name of Alek/Alik first come from? According to Mailer's book Oswald's Tale it was first suggested to him by Rimma Shirakova - "Since his name didn't sound Russian at all, he now called himself Alik - her suggestion." What is also perhaps of note is that when Oswald went to the OVIR (Passport and Visa Office), accompanied by Rimma and Rosa (Agafonava?) from Intourist, not long after arriving in Russia he was interviewed by Alexander Simchenko... So within a week of arriving in Russia, Oswald has been interveiwed by someone called Alexander and had started to call himself Alek/Alik - regardless of whether it was Rimma that came up with it or Lee himself there does seem to be too much of a coincidence there and it may not be 'direct' but I reckon that 'settles' where the name Alek came from. *As a slight aside, here are some parts from Mailer's book about Alexander meeting Oswald that are of some interest in regards to what we have discussed. Quote The first time Alexander came across Lee Harvey Oswald's name was when he recieved a call that a young American was trying to recieve Soviet citizenship. When Alexander heard his first name was Lee, he thought, "Chinese, maybe he's Chinese by birth." But then he thought, "Oswald - that's not Chinese, not Oswald."... ... he did ask Oswald how he received his name Lee, and the young man replied, "Maybe it's my grandparents. Maybe it's Irish." But then, thinking there might be Spanish in the name Oswald, like Osvaldo, Alexander said, "Habla espanol?" and Oswald said, "No, no, no, no." He said he wanted to stay in the Soviet Union because he felt very sympathetic to Alexander's country... ... Alexander also thought Oswald was like an actor in some way, because he was a little different with each person, yes. Like a mama's child, used to his mother doing everything for him. Moving on to the Hidell part of the name; 5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Although Marina thought that Lee invented the name of Alek J. Hidell because it rhymed with "Fidel" (to her) I think that's incorrect. I too think that is incorrect... Marina may well have thought that was the case (after the fact) but likely it was just a guess on her part... Do the two even rhyme. lol I mean surely it is 'high-dell' and 'fid-l'... 5 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: Trying to think of a last name, I believe he knew a Marine at El Toro whose last name was "Hidell" or close to it. John Rene Heindell... in his affidavit he mentions being 'nicknamed' Hidell (to rhyme with 'Rydell' rather than 'Fidel'). Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 6 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said: Where did the name of Alek/Alik first come from? According to Mailer's book Oswald's Tale it was first suggested to him by Rimma Shirakova - "Since his name didn't sound Russian at all, he now called himself Alik - her suggestion.".... So within a week of arriving in Russia, Oswald has been interviewed by someone called Alexander and had started to call himself Alek/Alik - regardless of whether it was Rimma that came up with it or Lee himself there does seem to be too much of a coincidence there and it may not be 'direct' but I reckon that 'settles' where the name Alek came from. Moving on to the Hidell part of the name; I too think that is incorrect... Marina may well have thought that was the case (after the fact) but likely it was just a guess on her part... Do the two even rhyme. lol I mean surely it is 'high-dell' and 'fid-l'... John Rene Heindell... in his affidavit he mentions being 'nicknamed' Hidell (to rhyme with 'Rydell' rather than 'Fidel'). Regards Alistair, According to Sylvia Odio, the Cuban and Mexican at her doorstep during the final week of September 1963 introduced Lee Harvey Oswald to her as "Leon." The likely reason is that there is no such Spanish name as "Lee," It sounds Chinese to the Spaniard. However, the name, "Leon," is the closest correlate, and so, simply to communicate amicably in Spanish, Lee was introduced as Leon. It may be the same in Russian. There is no Russian name of "Lee," and it might also sound Chinese in Russia. So, the closest correlate might be "A-LEE-k". And so perhaps Rimma was the original source. Lee liked it. Then, Lee renamed his pal, "Alexander," to "Alek" so the name became a favorite with Lee. As for the Hidell part of the name...the reason I feel sure that Marina was wrong in claiming that Hidell was to rhyme with Fidel, was because in English we say "Hydell", while we never say, "Fydell Castro." In Russian and Spanish his name is likely "Feedel Castro." Perhaps Marina was thinking that Hidell was pronounced "Heedell". Only that would rhyme with "Fidel". But that shows unfamiliarity with English usage in 1963. I agree -- John Rene Heindell, who was nicknamed Hidell, is the more likely source. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said: As for the Hidell part of the name...the reason I feel sure that Marina was wrong in claiming that Hidell was to rhyme with Fidel, was because in English we say "Hydell", while we never say, "Fydell Castro." In Russian and Spanish his name is likely "Feedel Castro." Perhaps Marina was thinking that Hidell was pronounced "Heedell". Only that would rhyme with "Fidel". But that shows unfamiliarity with English usage in 1963. From a linguistic perspective pronounciation of words is quite interesting (to me anyway. lol)... ... as I mentioned earlier, some of the Russians would say he was called Alik, others Alek, that to me sounds like the I and E sound are the same... indeen with Marina's name the I has an E sound, so it doesn't surprise me one bit that Marina would see Hidell and pronounce it 'Heedel'. 1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said: It may be the same in Russian. There is no Russian name of "Lee," and it might also sound Chinese in Russia. So, the closest correlate might be "A-LEE-k". And so perhaps Rimma was the original source. Lee liked it. Then, Lee renamed his pal, "Alexander," to "Alek" so the name became a favorite with Lee. From thinking of as many Russian first names I can think of, I feel there would be a certain appeal for Oswald to adopt the name of Alek as it is common enough in Russia to be a Russian name but also common enough to not be a 'foreign' name too (if that makes sense. lol) I do like names and that. *Bit of a coincidence that the name Ekdahl can be found within Alek Hidell. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 (edited) 2 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said: *Bit of a coincidence that the name Ekdahl can be found within Alek Hidell. lol Alistair, I never thought of that. Yet, from a psychology of the unconscious, it makes a lot of sense, because Mr. Ekdahl was the closest that LHO ever came to having a father-figure in his life. Also, Ekdahl was well-to-do, and for 2-3 years of his childhood, LHO lived like a young prince at fine hotels and resorts. So, the consonance of Ekdahl with Alek Hidell may indeed have a psychological component. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 18, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 18, 2017 Author Share Posted March 18, 2017 42 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: I never thought of that. Yet, from a psychology of the unconscious, it makes a lot of sense, because Mr. Ekdahl was the closest that LHO ever came to having a father-figure in his life. Also, Ekdahl was well-to-do, and for 2-3 years of his childhood, LHO lived like a young prince at fine hotels and resorts. So, the consonance of Ekdahl with Alek Hidell may indeed have a psychological component. The psychology of the unconscious, I like that. Yeah I think there probably is something there on some subconcious level that would have appealed. Not of any real significance in the grand scheme of things though. lol Getting back to his time in Russia and from when he first adopted the name of Alek, I can imagine that would have helped him a lot - new name, new start - almost as if it would help him reveal the person he really wanted to be, perhaps it would have made him feel more 'outgoing'... to start with at least... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 18, 2017 Share Posted March 18, 2017 1 hour ago, Alistair Briggs said: Getting back to his time in Russia and from when he first adopted the name of Alek, I can imagine that would have helped him a lot - new name, new start - almost as if it would help him reveal the person he really wanted to be, perhaps it would have made him feel more 'outgoing'... to start with at least... Alistair, It is comforting, IMHO, to imagine that LHO could have had a successful life in the USSR. He didn't like to compete for work. He liked Marxism as a general, abstract principle. He was happy to be selected for special treatment -- i.e. income from the Red Cross, as well as residence in the newest apartments in Minsk. In retrospect, this was the most comfortable that LHO ever was in his life -- with the sole exception of his elite childhood years with his step-father, Edwin Ekdahl. LHO's previous life was loneliness and rank poverty. If LHO had stayed in the USSR, he would have vanished into obscurity. He was never going to be accepted into a Russian University -- he could hardly spell for goodness sake -- not only in English, but also in Russian. He read 007 novels rather than Dostoyevsky. He would have eventually, I believe, buckled down to give up his US passport, accept Soviet citizenship, join the CP, and get a middle position in the local Union. He would have had four children and never returned to the USA. He would be 87 years old today -- if he survived the Lies and Corruption of the USSR. But mainly, he would never had been dragged down to be the Patsy of the JFK assassination, and gone down in US History as the John Wilkes Booth of the 20th century. Perhaps things will change after October 2017, as the JFK Records Act comes to maturity. Perhaps we will find that there were others involved in the JFK assassination after all. Yet I'm afraid that Jim Garrison will be proved correct -- and LHO will be shown to have known his oppressors on a first name basis -- and he handed over his rifle to them on that basis. LHO was one of them. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 21 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: It is comforting, IMHO, to imagine that LHO could have had a successful life in the USSR. He didn't like to compete for work. He liked Marxism as a general, abstract principle. He was happy to be selected for special treatment -- i.e. income from the Red Cross, as well as residence in the newest apartments in Minsk. I kind of agree - he could have had a successful life in the USSR, but I think he could have had a successful life after his return to the US too. You go on to mention that you believe, had he stayed in Russia, that he would have 'buckled down' and got a 'middle position'; I reckon the same could be said in terms of after his return to the US. I reckon that was where his life was heading tbh, that he was coming to the realisation that he needed to 'buck up', a second child on the way, a wife to support, that he wanted to 'settle down' in to a 'normal' lifestyle in the US - almost as if he was on the point of 'maturity'. Sure, perhaps he had to take one step back to go two steps forward, but I genuinely think that he was heading in the right direction... 21 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: But mainly, he would never had been dragged down to be the Patsy of the JFK assassination, and gone down in US History as the John Wilkes Booth of the 20th century. This is where it gets complicated. lol I say that with consideration of other CT's, including your own. I can see then why a thought of Oswald having stayed in Russia would 'act' as a 'catch-all' in 'predicating' him being the 'Patsy'... The difference I suppose, in overly simplistic terms, is that, as per your CT theory, had he stayed in Russia then there wouldn't have been a JFK assassination - in other CT's, had he stayed in Russia there (likely) would still have been a JFK assassination but we would be talking about some other 'Patsy' instead of Oswald. Indeed, if Oswald was the 'lone assassin', had he stayed in Russia then he couldn't have been the 'lone assassin'... I suppose then that it is indeed 'comforting' to consider how different things could have been had Oswald stayed in Russia... and yet it is also 'moot' because he didn't stay in Russia. lol For some reason the Oasis song 'Masterplan' just popped in to my mind, and especially the following verse... Quote It's up to us to make The best of all the things that come our way 'Cause everything that's been has passed The answer's in the looking glass There's four and twenty million doors On life's endless corridor I digress! 22 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: He was never going to be accepted into a Russian University -- he could hardly spell for goodness sake -- not only in English, but also in Russian. He read 007 novels rather than Dostoyevsky. Hemmingway was not the best speller, it used to drive his editors nuts and when they complained about them, his retort was "Well, that's what you're hired to correct!" Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Alistair Briggs said: I kind of agree - he could have had a successful life in the USSR, but I think he could have had a successful life after his return to the US too. You go on to mention that you believe, had he stayed in Russia, that he would have 'buckled down' and got a 'middle position'; I reckon the same could be said in terms of after his return to the US. I reckon that was where his life was heading tbh, that he was coming to the realisation that he needed to 'buck up', a second child on the way, a wife to support, that he wanted to 'settle down' in to a 'normal' lifestyle in the US - almost as if he was on the point of 'maturity'. Sure, perhaps he had to take one step back to go two steps forward, but I genuinely think that he was heading in the right direction... This is where it gets complicated. lol I say that with consideration of other CT's, including your own. I can see then why a thought of Oswald having stayed in Russia would 'act' as a 'catch-all' in 'predicating' him being the 'Patsy'... The difference I suppose, in overly simplistic terms, is that, as per your CT theory, had he stayed in Russia then there wouldn't have been a JFK assassination - in other CT's, had he stayed in Russia there (likely) would still have been a JFK assassination but we would be talking about some other 'Patsy' instead of Oswald. Indeed, if Oswald was the 'lone assassin', had he stayed in Russia then he couldn't have been the 'lone assassin'... I suppose then that it is indeed 'comforting' to consider how different things could have been had Oswald stayed in Russia... and yet it is also 'moot' because he didn't stay in Russia. lol For some reason the Oasis song 'Masterplan' just popped in to my mind, and especially the following verse... I digress! Hemmingway was not the best speller, it used to drive his editors nuts and when they complained about them, his retort was "Well, that's what you're hired to correct!" Regards I think that Oswald had some flaw which, in his day and age, would have marked him and held him back in social and professional situations. I took a guess at Aspergers being a possible affliction at one point and I soon found that others had made the same observation; so I am inclined to go with that. Today, it would, perhaps, not be held against him so strictly. It was mild enough to allow him entry into certain circles, but it was present enough that further along he would be kept at arms length and ousted in some circles and eventually dispensed with by the CIA. Cheers, Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Michael Clark said: I think that Oswald had some flaw which, in his day and age, would have marked him and held him back in social and professional situations. I took a guess at Aspergers being a possible affliction at one point and I soon found that others had made the same observation; so I am inclined to go with that. Today, it would, perhaps, not be held against him so strictly. It was mild enough to allow him entry into certain circles, but it was present enough that further along he would be kept at arms length and ousted in some circles and eventually dispensed with by the CIA. Cheers, Michael Michael, Yes, Greg Parker has also guessed Aspergers Syndrome as LHO's malady -- and the observations match well. Yet IMHO the main issue LHO had in 1963 was not Aspergers, but something worse -- it was his bitter resentment at being unfairly held back in life. (And that would have also held him back in 2017 as well). LHO came from a family in which the kids went to orphan homes to make things easier on their single mom. Though there was a brief period around 1945-1948 when Marguerite Oswald married a well-to-do engineer, and the two older boys were shipped off to military school, and young Lee traveled around the USA in nice hotels and resorts, that fun time came crashing to an end with her divorce. Then LHO fell back into a crushing poverty. His brothers dropped out of high school to help support the family, and worked 12 hours a day, 6 days a week, selling shoes and bagging groceries. LHO was a latch key kid and spent his afternoons and evenings HOME ALONE. That's when he developed his great love of reading. (His cousin, Marilyn Murret said young Lee read encyclopedias the way other people read novels.) LHO was very bright, and also well-read by the time he was 17 and joined the Marines. Though a high-school dropout, he quickly qualified to be a Radar Operator in Japan. It was fun for awhile, but LHO wanted MORE. Back at El Toro base, LHO taught himself Spanish and Russian languages. He probably saw himself in a great career as an Intelligence operative, perhaps a spy, or a double-agent -- since he would be fluent in Russian during the Cold War. He took the Marine's Russian Exam -- he flunked. No job. Maybe the ONI sent LHO to Russia as a "dangle" as former CIA agent Victor Marchetti believed -- I don't know -- but LHO was already pissed off. He was smarter than his Marine officers, but they were bossing him around. (This came out in Kerry Thornley's WC testimony about LHO.) This was LHO's basic problem in life -- he was smarter than the people in his life who were barking orders at him. This would be true at El Toro, but also in Russia -- also back in the USA at Leslie Welding -- also at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall. Among the Russian Expatriates in Dallas, LHO thought he was smarter then all of them (except George DeM). Some tried to help LHO start his own business -- but LHO said he would never "exploit the workers" that way. LHO thought he was smarter than all of them. Out in New Orleans the story was the same, e.g. at Reily Coffee Company. Even the Radical Right mercenaries at 544 Camp Street didn't like LHO. The Cuban mercenaries never trusted him -- following the lead of Carlos Bringuier. LHO liked to pose as a double-agent and tease them -- and nobody liked that -- not even Richard Cast Nagell. LHO always felt he was smarter than his work superiors -- and he had this chip on his shoulder. It glowed. This, IMHO, is the key reason that LHO was selected as the Patsy -- this chip on his shoulder. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 19, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Alistair Briggs said: ...As per your CT theory, had he stayed in Russia then there wouldn't have been a JFK assassination - in other CT's, had he stayed in Russia there (likely) would still have been a JFK assassination but we would be talking about some other 'Patsy' instead of Oswald... Regards Alistair, Just to be clear -- in my CT, if LHO had stayed in Russia, there still would have been a JFK assassination. We would be talking about some other Patsy. I think Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall or Harry Dean would have been high on the list of potential Patsies. For one thing -- the main thing that created the Patsy was the DPD getting its hands on LHO's rifle. Well, FBI records show that on 11/22/1963, the FBI also got its hands on the rifle of Gerry Patrick Hemming -- in the possession of Loran Hall. The FBI energetically traced it to the former possessor, namely, Roy Hargraves. That's a well-known story. There were plenty of other Patsies on the line. As Joseph Milteer said, "They will pick somebody up within hours afterwards." I truly believe it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Edited March 19, 2017 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted March 19, 2017 Share Posted March 19, 2017 6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Michael, Yes, Greg Parker has also guessed Aspergers Syndrome as LHO's malady -- and the observations match well. Yet IMHO ....... He was smarter than his Marine officers, but they were bossing him around. ...................... LHO thought he was smarter than all of them. ......................... LHO always felt he was smarter than his work superiors -- and he had this chip on his shoulder. It glowed. I don't think he felt that he was smarter than anyone. His interests, self-education and affliction set him apart and he would recognize that as a problem and a flaw. These things (affliction aside) would be as much a comfort as a curse. Today, these things are less stigmatizing. Education and the ability to put a name on an affliction and thereby explain and express its nature make things a lot easier. IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 1 hour ago, Michael Clark said: I think that Oswald had some flaw which, in his day and age, would have marked him and held him back in social and professional situations. I took a guess at Aspergers being a possible affliction at one point and I soon found that others had made the same observation; so I am inclined to go with that. Today, it would, perhaps, not be held against him so strictly. It was mild enough to allow him entry into certain circles, but it was present enough that further along he would be kept at arms length and ousted in some circles and eventually dispensed with by the CIA. Aspergers is certainly a possibility - difficult to say to what extent of course.. I do genuinely think that if it was today Oswald would certainly be found to be on the 'spectrum' at some level, to what extent would be supposition on my part, but certainly many things point in that direction, imo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 19, 2017 Author Share Posted March 19, 2017 38 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Just to be clear -- in my CT, if LHO had stayed in Russia, there still would have been a JFK assassination. We would be talking about some other Patsy. Ah ok, noted. 43 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said: Among the Russian Expatriates in Dallas, LHO thought he was smarter then all of them (except George DeM). Some tried to help LHO start his own business -- but LHO said he would never "exploit the workers" that way. LHO thought he was smarter than all of them. Can't say I have come across that before - maybe I have and it just didn't register with me - Paul, can you point me in the direction of any available online sources about some of them trying to help him start his own business? Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted March 20, 2017 Share Posted March 20, 2017 14 hours ago, Alistair Briggs said: <Paul wrote:> :Among the Russian Expatriates in Dallas, LHO thought he was smarter then all of them (except George DeM). Some tried to help LHO start his own business -- but LHO said he would never "exploit the workers" that way. LHO thought he was smarter than all of them." Can't say I have come across that before - maybe I have and it just didn't register with me - Paul, can you point me in the direction of any available online sources about some of them trying to help him start his own business? Cheers Alistair, Lots of older men in the Russian Expatriate community in Dallas tried to advise LHO about his work prospects. They thought he was serious about it, since he had a wife and baby -- and they were disappointed in his responses. Some of them were WC witnesses, including Max Clark, Sam Ballen, Thomas Ray, John Hall, George DeMohrenschildt, George Bouhe and Ford Declan -- in different degrees. The main guy I have in mind is John Hall, whose WC testimony can be found here: http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hall_j.htm The snippet I have in mind is as follows: Mr. LIEBELER: When was it that you discussed with Oswald the reasons why he went to Russia? Mr. HALL: The next time was Easter, if I am getting all this straight. I hadn't been in business long for myself. I was real strong for the system of free enterprise, and I asked Oswald how he was getting along down at the printing place, and he said, "Well, he was doing as well as could be expected, except the fact was that he didn't have security in his job and didn't like the whole setup." ...And I told him, "Well, nobody has security actually. We have to work and keep up with what is going on and keep getting ahead, and that it seemed to me like he could stay down there for 2 or 3 or 4 years and learn what had to be learned and open his own shop, and that he would be bettering himself and making more money and having more niceties of life. And so the point is, with this system of free enterprise which I was real strong for, because I was trying to get ahead, and so Oswald, he told me that he was, he had already been discontent with the United States, that he didn't have security, and he really didn't know where his next job was coming from... Mr. LIEBELER: Did Oswald ever express any resentment against the U.S. Government for any reason that you can remember? Mr. HALL: Not specifically. Just feeling. Like on capitalism, and I dom't know if this is related to the time Max Clark and I were together with and I don't know, Oswald didn't say this, somebody told me like George Bouhe, that Oswald felt -- and we are just middle-income people -- but he felt he didn't like us, because he felt like we were true capitalists, and that was just because we had a TV set in the bedroom and one in the living room. This was bitter to him. He didn't like that fact and didn't like electric can openers and things like that. Mr. LIEBELER: He expressed that, a general resentment of the social system? Mr. HALL: Yes. I noticed here that John Hall was genuinely sympathetic to LHO, the family man, and encouraged him to apply himself at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall for just a few years, and learn the business, and "open his own shop." That's good advice, actually. But LHO could not get his mind off of the Marxist paradigm, where owning two TV sets was based on the evil exploitation of the working class, and he wanted no part of it. Regards, --Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alistair Briggs Posted March 20, 2017 Author Share Posted March 20, 2017 Quote Mr. LIEBELER - When was it that you discussed with Oswald the reasons why he went to Russia? Mr. HALL - The next time was Easter, if I am getting all this straight. I hadn't been in business long for myself. I was real strong for the system of free enterprise, and I asked Oswald how he was getting along down at the printing place, and he said, "Well, he was doing as well as could be expected, except the fact was that he didn't have security in his job and didn't like the whole setup." And I wondered why. And he said, "He didn't have security." And I told him, "Well, nobody has security actually. We have to work and keep up with what is going on and keep getting ahead, and that it seemed to me like he could stay down there for 2 or 3 or 4 years and learn what had to be learned and open his own shop, and that he would be bettering himself and making more money and having more niceties of life. *See the bits that are in 'quotation marks', they really shouldn't be as it is not a quote... lol Tsk tsk the 'transcriber' of the WC. lol 7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: I noticed here that John Hall was genuinely sympathetic to LHO, the family man, and encouraged him to apply himself at Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall for just a few years, and learn the business, and "open his own shop." Maybe I'm just reading it differently, but to me when John Hall says 'it seemed to me...' it doesn't necessarily mean that he vocalised that to Oswald - even if he did, quite a leap from throwing out such a thought and actually 'helping' him achieve that; it's just when you mentioned earlier that some people tried to help Oswald start his own business I thought you were meaning literally, at that point, helping him to start his own business... no biggy though. 7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: That's good advice, actually. But LHO could not get his mind off of the Marxist paradigm, where owning two TV sets was based on the evil exploitation of the working class, and he wanted no part of it. This is something we probably disagree on to some extent, but that might come down to our own perspective on a couple of matters. Before I delve more in to it then, for clarity, I will ask you Paul do you feel that Oswald's return to the US came about, not because he wanted to come back but moreso because Marina 'pressured' him in to it? Regards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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