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Thomas Graves

Was "Full-Figured" Gloria Calvery "Running Woman"?

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In my humble opinion, Calvery seems to have been too "full figured" to have been the narrow-waisted "Running Woman" in Couch-Darnell.  

Regardless, was "Running Woman" wearing those (now-ugly) glasses that Calvery liked to wear, even in her wedding photograph?

--  Tommy :sun

 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Well, the real problem I have with Running Woman being Gloria Calvery has to do with the statements and WC testimony of Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley. Although there is a world of difference between the statements and WC testimony, the locations Bill Shelley stated he met and spoke with Gloria Calvery is clearly stated. In his first day affidavit, he states he ran across the Elm St. extension to the corner of the Park where he met a crying Gloria Calvery, who proceeded to tell him the President had been shot.

If this affidavit is to be believed, Running Woman cannot be Gloria Calvery, for the simple fact she is on the opposite side of the Elm St. extension and well past the corner of the park before "Shelley & Lovelady" get anywhere close to it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/

In his WC testimony, Bill Shelley clearly states he and Lovelady did not leave the TSBD steps until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps and shared the news of the assassination with them. As "S & L" are already well away from the steps before Running Woman AND Baker arrive at the steps, this also disqualifies Running Woman from being Gloria Calvery.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm

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6 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Well, the real problem I have with Running Woman being Gloria Calvery has to do with the statements and WC testimony of Billy Lovelady and Bill Shelley. Although there is a world of difference between the statements and WC testimony, the locations Bill Shelley stated he met and spoke with Gloria Calvery is clearly stated. In his first day affidavit, he states he ran across the Elm St. extension to the corner of the Park where he met a crying Gloria Calvery, who proceeded to tell him the President had been shot.

If this affidavit is to be believed, Running Woman cannot be Gloria Calvery, for the simple fact she is on the opposite side of the Elm St. extension and well past the corner of the park before "Shelley & Lovelady" get anywhere close to it.

https://texashistory.unt.edu/ark:/67531/metapth337377/m1/1/

In his WC testimony, Bill Shelley clearly states he and Lovelady did not leave the TSBD steps until Gloria Calvery had returned to the steps and shared the news of the assassination with them. As "S & L" are already well away from the steps before Running Woman AND Baker arrive at the steps, this also disqualifies Running Woman from being Gloria Calvery.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/shelley1.htm

Robert,

Yes, it doesn't make much sense that someone (i.e., Calvery) who said they were standing on Elm Street during the motorcade would run past "Shelley and Lovelady" within 30 seconds of the final shot from that direction on (and on the far side of ?) Elm Street Extension.  So that's a problem, too.

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves

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We got a WORLD of problems here, Thomas. Between his DPD statement, his FBI statement and his WC testimony, Bill Shelley tells three completely different stories. 

I've been trying to find a group of unidentified women on the north side of Elm St. that might be Calvery, Hicks, Westbrook and Reed (and possbly Dishong) but they just aren't there. What do we do, Thomas?

Frankly, I smell a rat here, and the stink points directly at the FBI. God only knows what they pulled off here but the fact remains we have at least three and possibly five women who stated they were watching the motorcade and who simply are not there.

LOL And I have the feeling you are deriving great satisfaction from throwing the ol' monkey wrench into the WCR gear works again. :) Once again, good show!

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9 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

We got a WORLD of problems here, Thomas. Between his DPD statement, his FBI statement and his WC testimony, Bill Shelley tells three completely different stories. 

I've been trying to find a group of unidentified women on the north side of Elm St. that might be Calvery, Hicks, Westbrook and Reed (and possbly Dishong) but they just aren't there. What do we do, Thomas?

Frankly, I smell a rat here, and the stink points directly at the FBI. God only knows what they pulled off here but the fact remains we have at least three and possibly five women who stated they were watching the motorcade and who simply are not there.

LOL And I have the feeling you are deriving great satisfaction from throwing the ol' monkey wrench into the WCR gear works again. :) Once again, good show!

 

9 minutes ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

We got a WORLD of problems here, Thomas. Between his DPD statement, his FBI statement and his WC testimony, Bill Shelley tells three completely different stories. 

I've been trying to find a group of unidentified women on the north side of Elm St. that might be Calvery, Hicks, Westbrook and Reed (and possbly Dishong) but they just aren't there. What do we do, Thomas?

Frankly, I smell a rat here, and the stink points directly at the FBI. God only knows what they pulled off here but the fact remains we have at least three and possibly five women who stated they were watching the motorcade and who simply are not there.

LOL And I have the feeling you are deriving great satisfaction from throwing the ol' monkey wrench into the WCR gear works again. :) Once again, good show!

Robert,

Wouldn't it be something if it was Shelley who killed JFK, and if Calvery (at whose wedding Shelley was best man) wasn't where she said she was during the motorcade, but was helping Shelley somehow?  And did double-duty by "covering" for him after the assassination?

--  Tommy :sun

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At this point in time, almost anything seems possible.

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Thomas

Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting.

Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

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5 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Thomas

Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting.

Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

 

5 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Thomas

Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting.

Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

Robert,

I'm using windows 10 with google chrome (don't know if that matters, or not), and what works best for me is to "highlight" what I want to quote, then right "click" while it's highlighted, and then then left click on the black "quote this" thingy that pops up, and then ... away you go.

--  Tommy :sun

PS  This is a test.  (lol)
 

Edited by Thomas Graves

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22 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Thomas

Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting.

Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

 

22 hours ago, Robert Prudhomme said:

Thomas

Sorry for not answering on the Calvery/Jacob thread. I seem to be having problems again with the Quote/Reply function as I did before my wee sabbatical. Rather than risk running into the same situation that got me removed, I think I will just refrain from posting.

Oddly, it only seems to be happening on that one thread. I might start a thread just for the purpose of responding to your Calvery/Jacob thread, as it is a fascinating topic and I'm sure it will generate literally pages of responses.

Robert,

I'm using windows 10 with google chrome (don't know it that matters, or not) and what works best for me is to "highlight" what I want to quote, right "click" while it's highlighted and a "quote this" question will pop up, and then ... away you go.

--  Tommy :sun

PS  This is a test.  (lol)

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Much better! Thank you, sir!

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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6 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:


Nope.

Sandy, 

On another thread you asked, in so many words, about how to start looking for Calvery in the photos.

For starters, here's Hugh Betzner #3, which is almost identical to a photo taken by Phil Willis.  You should also take a good look at un-cropped Altgens 6, and the frame-by-frame Z-Film.

 

Edit:  In Betzner 3, below, could the tall woman (standing "next to" a guy and visible between the farthest-left SS guys) who's wearing a dark dress and dark headscarf in the photo below be Gloria Calvery?  (We know from the Z-Film that that particular woman (Ms. "L" in the color frame, below) was tall and "broad in the beam" just like Gloria Calvery appeared to have been in her high school and wedding photos.)

XNQpYGp.jpg

 

--  Tommy :sun

PS --  Page 4 of this thread might be helpful (scroll way down it to get to the good stuff):  http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/22655-re-post-from-rokc-re-baker-entering-tsbd/&page=4

Edited by Thomas Graves

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Hi Thomas

As I said earlier, we are not just looking for Gloria Calvery to be somewhere else on Elm St. She was standing in a group of five women, and she and three of these other women all gave statements to the FBI that there were four of them in a group. (not sure how June Dishong did not get included in this group but we'll save that for later)

In their FBI statements, each of these women, Calvery, Hicks, Reed and Westbrook, gave the names AND street addresses of the other three women she was standing with.

Therefore, unless we assume these four FBI statements to be fabrications, we are obligated to look for a group of four women standing together on the north side of Elm St. who have not been identified to date.

Interesting that each woman would know the street address of the other three women.

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It's the other thread I seem to be having trouble with the Quote/Reply function. I'll have to post my responses to the Calvery/Jacob thread here.

temoins071.jpg

Robin asked about the four women marked as 7,8,9 and 10 in the top photo. While no. 10 is not identified, 7,8 and 9 are ID'ed as Jane Berry, Betty Thornton and Peggy Burney. No. 10 looks a bit big to be Gloria Calvery but that's just my opinion. What is even more interesting is that June Dishong is second from the left in the group of five. How did she not get included in the statements of the other four women, who were able to supply to the FBI the names and street addresses of the other women in the group, but ALL completely forgot Dishong was with them?

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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"I, Betty Jean Thornton, make the following voluntary statement to Raymond J . Fox and J . Hale McMenamin, who have identified themselves to me as Special Agents, Federal Bureau of Investigation . "I am a white female, born at Graham, Texas on November 13, 1929 . I presently reside at 3807 Rolinda and am employed by the Scott-Foresman Publishing Crmpany, fourth floor, Texas School B6ok Depository, Building, 411 Elm Street, Dallas . "On November 22, 1963, a - approximately 12 :35 P .M ., I was standing with Jane Berry, another employee of Scott-Foresman, on Elm Street in front of the Texas School Book Depository Building to watch a motorcade bearing President John F, Kennedy pass by . As the car in which the -President was riding passed by, I heard what I thought were firecrackers being discharged, but I did not actually see the President hit with any shots . " 

Jane Berry makes an almost identical statement and vouches for Betty Jean Thornton. Neither of them mentions Peggy Burney, nor do they mention the woman known only as No. 10. Unlike the group to their right (Calvery, Hicks, Westbrook and Reed), they do not give each other's street addresses. I wonder why it was so important for the other group to memorize each other's street addresses?

Edited by Robert Prudhomme

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The annotation also left out the woman in blue in between Brown and Berry

and the woman in white next to Millican.

20160.jpg

temoins071.jpg

Edited by Robin Unger

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