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Michael Clark

Plan B, C and D For a Failed or Aborted Dealy Plaza ambush

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Posted (edited)

It seems to me that their could be no possible failure to kill JFK in Texas on 11-22-63. There had to be a back-up plan, or several. There would be no way to guarantee that things would go as smoothly as they did that day. It seems that back-up plans would have had to have gone from the simple sniper attack, to a more reckless follow-up, to as far as a widespread bloody coup, with contingencies for the spread of resistance nationwide.

I have not seen this topic covered elsewhere, and I wrote the following passage on another thread, but it inclined to off-topic on that thread. So I'll post it here and see what people know or think about this subject......

This was originally written in regards to the mystery of the blonde Oswald photographic evidence in Mexico City.

.....................

Hypothesizing. I hope it is welcome.

As it turned-out, JFK was killed by a nutter, LBJ was saved and controlled, and the MIC got it's war in Vietnam, TFX contracts, etc.

If the Dealy ambush failed or was aborted, there would have been a more reckless back-up attempt, by Cubans who would have died, on the way to the Trade-Mart or in their escape from Dealy Plaza. Those Cubans would have been identified as Communists (with Cubans in Dealy as well); and the MIC, the Mafia and anti-Castro Cubans would have had their war in Cuba, casinos, and natural resources, whether JFK survived or not; and they may or may not have got the Vietnam War. Other wars in the Caribbean, Central and South America would have now been on the plate. The LHO Mexico City impersonator consulate photos could have been part of the backup plan to frame LHO as pro-Castro, in a conspiracy, in order to justify a Cuban war. The Vietnam War was far lower risk because their would be no nukes, and the Mafia would get stiffed and that dirty angle would never be realized.

As it was, the Cuban/Communist connection was to be denied because it was not needed, so the garbage LHO MC ID and photos were sent up the chain.

Its all kind of an alternative to Operation Northwoods.

Cheers,

Michael

*** edit *** I just found this thread. Same basic question:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?/topic/10115-were-there-contingency-plans-if-the-dealey-plaza-ambush-failed/&page=2

 

Edited by Michael Clark

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I believe it was Hemming who said that a bomb was to go off under the overpass if the shooting failed to kill JFK.

If true, I'm sure that gave Greer plenty of incentive to see that the shooting succeeded.

 

 

 

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If the assassination was in essence a military coup d'etat, I think it's reasonable to assume that an overt coup, openly taking over, was the plan of last result. But I wonder, in that case, if an overt coup wouldn't have been preferable for the plotters as the plan of first resort. That is, simply relieving JFK of command and removing him from the White House. The PR would be bad, but can you imagine how bad the PR would be if they maimed him first in a failed assassination attempt? They must have been 100 percent certain that the assassination would succeed, which means they must have had every base covered from Dealey Plaza to the ER room in Parkland.

 

 

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Posted (edited)
On 3/7/2017 at 9:00 AM, Ron Ecker said:

If the assassination was in essence a military coup d'etat, I think it's reasonable to assume that an overt coup, openly taking over, was the plan of last result. But I wonder, in that case, if an overt coup wouldn't have been preferable for the plotters as the plan of first resort. That is, simply relieving JFK of command and removing him from the White House. The PR would be bad, but can you imagine how bad the PR would be if they maimed him first in a failed assassination attempt? They must have been 100 percent certain that the assassination would succeed, which means they must have had every base covered from Dealey Plaza to the ER room in Parkland.

 

 

Thanks for the input Ron, 

I don't see how the ambush, as it shook-out, could have been counted-on to be 100% successful. In  particular, being able to blame a single shooter could have easily been thwarted. Let's say that Jackie or Connally reacted quickly to the shots and pulled JFK down. More firepower would have had to be brought to bear on the limo, making a conspiracy undeniable.

A move by JFK to protect Jackie and himself could have demanded more shots that would have revealed a conspiracy. 

Civilians might have caught wind of the plot, or seen shooters and acted to thwart the plot. A couple plot-traitors could have acted to thwart it.

I just can't see the planners ignoring the possibility of having to face a fact of conspiracy, outright, nor being able do discount the possibility of having to throw in a significantly larger group to finish the job.

In the event of a mild wounding, or complete miss on JFK, I could see an abort made of further immediate attempts at assassinating him. Then, a lone nut, or a couple conspirators could be cornered and eliminated.

What I do think is that it was an all-in situation. If it could be done with a lone-nut, or small group of criminal plotters, that would be preferable. A more reckless, aggressive follow-up had to be in place, again implicaring a smallish group. But even that could fail, and we enter the realm of a military operation of anywhere from a smaller to larger group, and a spread to a regional or nationwide action had to be anticipated.

It certainly sounds liked fiction, but if I am right and there were commanders-in-the-know, in charge of military units that were ostensibly on or en-route to training or other legitimate operations, that could be brought to bear quickly, then those preparations may have left their mark in the records, or on the memories of servicemen who, like everyone else, remembers where they were on that day. Those are pieces of evidence that, plausibly, could still be detected.

Cheers,

Michael

 

Edited by Michael Clark

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So Hemming claims they had a car bomb ready in case the shooting didn't work?

Hemming seemed to exaggerate at times, but if this were true and actually happened, can you imagine?

The confused outrage felt in this country was bad enough with just JFK being slaughtered.

If the jackal plotters and killers went so far as to tear Jackie's body apart ( and Nellie Connelly's too ) at the same time, I think the outrage level would have escalated to unimaginable degrees. 

As it was millions of people across the country instantly hated Dallas and those they perceived owned, controlled and policed that city starting on 11,22,1963.

Even at 12 years old, I was made aware right away through general newspaper stories that Dallas was home to very wealthy, powerful and super extreme right wingers who hated JFK. That JFK mug shot "WANTED FOR TREASON" flyer distribution stunt just highlighted for the rest of the country the extreme level of hate towards JFK  in that city and even state. 

JFK himself reportedly told Jackie that they were now in " nut country" after arriving in Texas. He knew that he was in General Edwin Walker and big oil's back yard.

 

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16 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said:

If the jackal plotters and killers went so far as to tear Jackie's body apart ( and Nellie Connelly's too ) at the same time, I think the outrage level would have escalated to unimaginable degrees. 

 

It was all going to be blamed on Castro. And yes, If a car bomb had been used, there would have been plenty of citizens volunteering for the invasion of Cuba.

 

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I think that if the Dealey Plaza plan messed up, and JFK survived and got back to Washington with less than totally disabling injuries, there may have been a general military take over.

Otherwise LBJ's corruption investigation may have not been stopped as it was on 11,22,1963 and he and all those connected to and dependent on him might have seen themselves destroyed.

The film "Seven Days In May" might have become our reality. 

Incredibly frightening stuff.  But not totally unimaginable.

Look at how close a coup became reality with Franklin Roosevelt and that was preemptively exposed by his loyal soldier guardian General Smedley Butler.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

I think that if the Dealey Plaza plan messed up, and JFK survived and got back to Washington with less than totally disabling injuries, there may have been a general military take over.

Otherwise LBJ's corruption investigation may have not been stopped as it was on 11,22,1963 and he and all those connected to and dependent on him might have seen themselves destroyed.

The film "Seven Days In May" might have become our reality. 

Incredibly frightening stuff.  But not totally unimaginable.

Look at how close a coup became reality with Franklin Roosevelt and that was preemptively exposed by his loyal soldier guardian General Smedley Butler.

I don't think he was going to get out of Dodge, no-way, no-how.

Presuming he did get safely to Washington, I can't see their being enough unanimity amongst military line and staff, to try to force a bloody military coup in Washington.

I have to think that a Texas cessation might have been part of a plan D, E, F, G........

LBJ could not have returned to Washington, and he may have been very close to meeting his demise that day.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited by Michael Clark

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If the motive of the plotters was only to blame Castro and mount a military action to remove him, it would only have been necessary to connect the would be assassin(s) to Castro. Killing JFK would not be necessary to further that cause. Therefore killing him was the plan. And Castro remained in place for 50 years. 

Midhael - I think the place to look for the Seven Days in May scenario is the 488th military reserve unit, full of ex-military that were members of the DPD. They controlled the Continuity of Government underground bunker, which offered secure communications between the military and the motorcade. COG was in place specifically for emergency operations in case of nuclear war and presumably also for civilian unrest. 

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10 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

If the motive of the plotters was only to blame Castro and mount a military action to remove him, it would only have been necessary to connect the would be assassin(s) to Castro. Killing JFK would not be necessary to further that cause. Therefore killing him was the plan. And Castro remained in place for 50 years. 

Midhael - I think the place to look for the Seven Days in May scenario is the 488th military reserve unit, full of ex-military that were members of the DPD. They controlled the Continuity of Government underground bunker, which offered secure communications between the military and the motorcade. COG was in place specifically for emergency operations in case of nuclear war and presumably also for civilian unrest. 

Yes Paul, it is the recent threads about the "Colonels" that are informing some of my posts in this thread.

Cheers,

Michael

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1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

If the motive of the plotters was only to blame Castro and mount a military action to remove him,

It was not the only motive. The assassination was essentially Operation Northwoods re-directed to another target whom they had more than one reason to get rid of.

 

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Posted (edited)

My two cents:

From what I have read, seen & considered about the JFK ambush, I see 3 distinct possibilities:

- The attack came from outside the 'shields' of JFK while a car passenger during his parade.

- The attack came from inside the 'shields' of JFK while a car passenger during his parade (inside job).

- A combination of the two above

I suspect JFK might have been finished off inside the tunnel of the triple underpass by inside elements, outside elements (or both, if the Dealey Plaza ambush had failed). SS agents appearing to respond to the gunfire by positioning themselves as 'shields' could just as easily have finished JFK off. If JFK had made it alive to Parkland, I believe his non-coup security would have taken over the ball game. As a living Commander In Chief, that security would have included Federal & State militia that would have simply outnumbered the attackers.

Where the motorcade is said to have stopped just west of the triple overpass would have also made a great spot for the killers to finish the job IMHO.

The LHO 'happenstance' explanation of the crime simply is too 'fishy' for the majority of interested people to bite into. It's been that way since day 1 and after over 53 years since the crimes occurred, no effort to convince the public otherwise has been successful.

Sincerely,

Brad Milch

Edited by Brad Milch

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Hemming claimed in a long-ago thread that there was a car bomb rigged to explode near the triple underpass or between it and the Stemmons on-ramp.  Has anyone ever done the photo research to see if there was any vehicle parked on Elm that might qualify as the bomb car?

 

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On 11/5/2004 at 4:08 AM, Tim Carroll said:

I agree with James that Harrelson is the tall tramp; IMO brought to the Plaza under the guise of the gunrunning operation upon which the assassination team piggy-backed. Regarding Holt, he was the first to raise the Agatha Christie-type scenario of the Plaza being peppered with potential patsies and incriminatingly misleading witnesses. Holt's background as a counterfeiter on the West Coast, along with his legit business providing i.d. cards and badges for LE, dovetails very well with the presence of numerous men flashing SS credentials, which is the essential element of his story's stated purpose for his presence being to deliver these SS credentials. These facts, coupled with his strong resemblance to the older tramp makes him at least as likely as Harrelson as being one of the tramps. As one of Oswald's daughters has asserted in recent years, the DPD records of this gunrunning operation, and the assertion that the boxcar in which the tramps were hiding was filled with munitions, could provide an important lead as to the presence and purpose of these men. Dismissing Holt based on photo impressions is one thing, but there can be no reasonable dismissal of his assertion that his expertise in creating false credentials fits with the strong witness testimony of SS agents flashing credentials that could not have been legitimate. He was the logical man for that job.

Tim

Just dumping this quote that I found elsewhere here because I thought I might be useful. The plan is to get back to it....

sorry for the bump.

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Posted (edited)

My last post is not relevant. I just dropped a quote here for further use.

But this whole scenario is developing well for me.

Suppose that multiple shooters failed to kill JFK in Dealy Plaza (as it was, things went so well that they were able to claim a LN scenario). As I said above, more aggressive attacks had to be ready at the underpass and beyond. There HAD to be more Cubans to blame; a veritable pile of Patsies. 

What has led me back here is the Weitzman-Barker encounter on the knoll, and, of course, Dark Complectioned Man. They had to be there to follow-up, and fall if necessary.

Everything was in place, the Pro Castro, LN, LHO; and a pile of Anti Castro Cubans were back-up. Were the Anti-Castro Cubans set-up with Communist credentials? Surely they must have been, or a world of hurt would have come down on Cuban exiles and an excuse to invade Cuba would be a difficult case to make.

Those Credentials and covers for the B, C and D team are, or were, evidence, clues. Surely those clues are no longer in existence or even detecible now.

Cheers,

Michael

 

*** I just re-read everything and figured-out that I am repeating myself ;). There's nothing like confirming your own genius! xa-xa-xa !!!

Edited by Michael Clark

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