Is there hard evidence that Richard Case Nagell's ID with Oswald's signature was in his possession when arrested?

[David Andrews]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Well, if true, that might explain how Nagell got rid of the "postmark" stamp on his copy. The stamp marks would be white, and they could easily have been erased (made dark) using a fine-tipped pencil.

But I have a feeling you're thinking of mimeograph stencils. Mimeography could only make copies of something being typed, written, or drawn with the special mimeograph paper in place.

A Photostat machine would first make a negative, from which the final copy was made. But I don't know why you would have asked adults to get the negatives for you. Still, Nagell could have used such a negative to erase the "postmark" stamp.

 

When you were seven years old in 1965, adults ran the library equipment for you, if that matters.  The pages I'm referring to were not purple mimeo, but solid black or brown (depending on the machine) inked pages, with type and other dark images reversed as white.

[Michael Walton]

David you might want to read the link I posted up above.  There, you'll find that Nagell couldn't possibly have done what he's claiming. There's too much contradictory statements he's made through the years (he was there; he wasn't; he held up the bank because he wanted to expose the plot; he didn't and robbed the bank because he needed psychiatric care; and on and on).

[Sandy Larsen]

12 minutes ago, David Andrews said:

When you were seven years old in 1965, adults ran the library equipment for you, if that matters.  The pages I'm referring to were not purple mimeo, but solid black or brown (depending on the machine) inked pages, with type and other dark images reversed as white.

David,

Can you remember what you (or anybody) did with these inked, reversed pages? I can't think of any way they would be useful.

 

 

 

[Sandy Larsen]

1 minute ago, Michael Walton said:

David you might want to read the link I posted up above.  There, you'll find that Nagell couldn't possibly have done what he's claiming. There's too much contradictory statements he's made through the years (he was there; he wasn't; he held up the bank because he wanted to expose the plot; he didn't and robbed the bank because he needed psychiatric care; and on and on).

LOL, do you think double agents will behave "normally," Michael? And always tell the truth? With great consistency?

BTW, I'll bet that nearly all the sources for that article are Dick Russell's The Man Who Knew Too Much.

 

[Michael Walton]

18 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

LOL, do you think double agents will behave "normally," Michael? And always tell the truth? With great consistency?

BTW, I'll bet that nearly all the sources for that article are Dick Russell's The Man Who Knew Too Much.

Sandy - if you read State Secret, there is a lot going on behind the scenes there.  The call in of someone impersonating LHO and Duran (when LHO was never even down there as written by your buddy David Josephs) is showing that the machinations are taking place, the greasing of the screw if you will.

If we are to believe that LHO was going to be the guy to take the fall for 11/22, then the laying the groundwork is happening as shown in SS.  Keep in mind too that everyone involved in this had a deep hatred for Kennedy, most probably because they felt betrayed because he didn't send in the troops during the BOP event. So there's means and motive.

I find it very hard to believe that these people, who were deeply motivated to lay all of this groundwork and were hell-bent on seeing it all come to fruition on 11/22, would even bother getting someone like Nagell involved.  Also, keep in mind that his original contact (probably in his own warped story-making) was someone who wanted him to do the *opposite* with LHO - to get rid of him to stop the murder. Also, would they really have even involved a loose cannon like this guy?  I highly doubt it.

So his story just doesn't seem plausible. That's the key - the *plausibility* of the story.  There's simply no room to fit him into the narrative of SS.  When you look at it that way, you then have to ask yourself - ...and what about all of the other crazy stuff he claimed and his constantly shifting stories and his never revealing the photo he had with LHO as well as the audio tape he claimed he had?

Where is this additional proof?  There is none.  It's like what they did in the OJ trial - a typical bait and switch.  His lawyers were bragging they were going to reveal who actually murdered Nicole but they never did but when the trial ended they never did and simply played the race card with a very suspectible jury.

As for Dick Russell, what can I say?  It won't be the last time in recorded history where a writer has been able to listen to someone's yarn and spin it into a story to sell to the public.

[Sandy Larsen]

39 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

I find it very hard to believe that these people, who were deeply motivated to lay all of this groundwork and were hell-bent on seeing it all come to fruition on 11/22, would even bother getting someone like Nagell involved.

It wasn't the CIA that got Nagell involved in the assassination plot. It was the KGB. They wanted it stopped.

That's my understanding of it.

But look, I don't use Nagell as a source anyway because even if he's the real deal (and it does appear he is) you never know when he's telling it straight and when he isn't.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Doesn't Nagell's story imply that Oswald was the assassin that KGB wanted stopped?

[Sandy Larsen]

53 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Doesn't Nagell's story imply that Oswald was the assassin that KGB wanted stopped?

That's a good question, Paul.

The KGB wanted Nagell to kill Oswald so that Russia couldn't be blamed for the assassination. So it sure sounds like the KGB thought Oswald was to be the assassin.

On the other hand, I think that Nagell tried to get Oswald to see that those handling him were trying to set him up. Something like that.

Maybe it went down like this: KGB thought Oswald was to be the assassin. So they sent Nagell there to kill him. But Nagell discovered that Oswald in fact wasn't going to be the assassin, but rather a pasty. And so Nagell tried to convince Oswald to get out of the situation.

 

[Larry Hancock]

Its a good idea to read Russell on this.....the actual point that I recall was that the Soviets thought Oswald to be a loose cannon, while affiliating himself with Russia he could do any of a number of things that would embarrass them, including violence.  I don't think there was any mention of his specifically being a potential JFK assassin.  At the same time the Russians advised Nagell that there were Cuban exiles that definitely did want to attack JFK and that they bore watching...  This is just from memory but TMWKTM is a big book and it would be good for anyone in this discussion to go back to it for the exact details.

[Michael Walton]

Paul - you may want to start here if you want to learn just about everything there is to know about the Nagell story:

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/nagell1.htm

Disclaimer - I am definitely not a fan of John McAdams but am merely posting this for educational purposes.

[Larry Hancock]

And once again, rather than leaving it strictly to McAdams I would offer my extensive Nagell research and analysis with a large quantity of related documents (many of which you will not find elsewhere) available on CD from JFK Lancer:

http://jfklancer.com/catalog/CDrom.html

I'd love to see somebody actually study it and engage in a dialog - I can assure you it will  give you a more comprehensive exploration than what you see from McAdam's.