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Was A Mexico City KGB Operations Officer Eusebio Azcue's "Blond, Very Thin-Faced" Oswald"?


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17 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

You said " On the left:  The same man photographed on the same day in the same place" And I understood that day was Oct 2,1963.( the photo above) right?

"What we got here is a failure to communicate."  -- Cool Hand Luke

Huh?

This is going downhill fast.

What do you not understand?

--  Tommy :sun

The photograph on the left was taken on October 2, 1963, in Mexico City.  The photo on the right was taken in Moscow, also in 1963 (if I'm not mistaken).

Image result for "nikolai leonov" "blond oswald"

Edited by Thomas Graves
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I said 3 years, because I know that photo of Khrushev and Castro could only be 60-63, right? My first impression is that they could have been the same guy, 20 years later., but you're telling me that's not true. The poor resolution and fuzziness might make his hair style look different, and curiously that change of hairstyle period wise is exactly what you might expect to see from a 30'ish Russian man with a slicked back look in the early's 60's to a more relaxed poofy look of that same guy in the 80's say. But of course you tell me it's not.

Edited by Kirk Gallaway
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8 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

"What we got here is a failure to communicate."  -- Cool Hand Luke

Huh?

This is going downhill fast.

What do you not understand?

--  Tommy :sun

The photograph on the left was taken on October 2, 1963, in Mexico City.  The photo on the right was taken in Moscow, also in 1963 (if I'm not mistaken).

Image result for "nikolai leonov" "blond oswald"

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8 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I said 3 years, because I know that photo of Khrushev and Castro could only be 60-63, right? My first impression is that they could have been the same guy, 20 years later., but you're telling me that's not true. The poor resolution and fuzziness might make his hair style look different, and curiously that change of hairstyle period wise is exactly what you might expect to see from a 30'ish Russian man with a slicked back look in the early's 60's to a more relaxed poofy look of that same guy in the 80's say. But of course you tell me it's not.

Thanks for the input.

Ciao.

PS  If my maths is correct, Leonov would have been 35 years old when the fuzzy, poor-resolution photo on the left was taken.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikolai_Leonov

Edited by Thomas Graves
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  • 1 month later...
On 3/17/2017 at 1:23 PM, Thomas Graves said:

Here's an undated photo showing Nikolai Leonov meeting with Raul and 6'3" Fidel Castro.

Image result for "raul castro" leonov

--  Tommy :sun

 

Edit:  I recently read a 1975 Church Committee document that said James Angleton, while being privately interviewed by two Church Committee members, voluntarily started talking about this photo, or one like it, because it shows KGB officer Nikolai Leonov with Castro. In the document, Leonov's name is spelled phonetically as "Leninoff" on "document page" 81, and as "Leanovov" and "Leninov" on "document page" 82.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=81&tab=page

Interestingly, on said MFF page 81, the report says Angleton was talking about two photos, a "Leninoff" photo and another photo, perhaps another one of him, the description of which (i.e., the second one) was apparently redacted with white-out in the report.

In connection with the first photo, "Leninoff" is confusingly described by the person who wrote the report as a "Mexican KGB agent," and the photo was said to have been "found by the Mexican police."

One wonders if either (or both) of the photos Angleton was talking about were was one or both of the 10/02/63 Mexico City CIA photos of Azcue's (highly probable, imho) "thin, blond, very thin-faced" Oswald impostor, which photos were labeled "Russian Male LEON" by the CIA.

--  Tommy :sun 

PS  Please note that "the major defector" written about at the top of page 81 is, from context, Anatoliy Golitsyn, and that Yuri Nosenko's name is constantly misspelled "Nesanko," or some such thing.

Edited by Thomas Graves
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At the top of "document page" 83 is the most interesting sentence of all in the three-page Church Committee document I've been talking about.

 

"Angleton again mentioned the double agent to Mexico -- in complex with Leanovov (phonetic)."

(Which conjures up in my mind Leonov's 1993 statement to National Enquirer magazine that Oswald showed up at the Soviet Embassy unannounced, anxious, and with his revolver, on Sunday, September 29, and met inside the embassy with only him, i.e., KGB officer Nikolai Leonov, the guy who had turned young Raul Castro onto Communism in 1953 and 1955.

 

The very next sentence is interesting, too.

"Angleton then mentioned the threat by Castro against the President."

 

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=82&tab=page

 

--  Tommy :sun

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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4 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

The very next sentence is interesting, too.

"Angleton then mentioned the threat by Castro against the President."

Did you read the last sentence on page 4? Deflection and obfuscation, how does that look in hindsight to you?

Edited by Chris Newton
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On 4/28/2017 at 9:53 AM, Chris Newton said:

Did you read the last sentence on page 4? Deflection and obfuscation, how does that look in hindsight to you?

Chris,

Regardless of the fact that there is no "page 4" in the well-paginated three-page document I've been talking about (btw, it begins here: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=80&tab=page ), and despite the fact that neither "deflection" nor "obfuscation" is mentioned in said three-page document, I will go ahead and try to answer your question in a general kind-of-way by saying that it's pretty well known by now that when "major defector" KGB major Anatoliy Golitsyn defected to the U.S. on December 15, 1961, he immediately predicted that the KGB would send a fake KGB "defector" to the U.S. to, I suppose, "deflect and obfuscate" what Golitsyn was telling the CIA (in particular James Jesus Angleton, whom Golitsyn had insisted upon "spilling the beans" to).

Perhaps it's just a coincidence that, whereas Golitsyn claimed that according to KGB and GRU policy every U.S. military man (or woman) who defected to the Soviet Union would automatically be interviewed by KGB's Department 13 in order to determine whether or not said defector had any knowledge of U.S. military weapons or policies which might be of interest to the Soviet Union, another KGB officer, Yuri Nosenko, who started "defecting" in place in 1962 and full-on "defected" in January, 1964, remarkably claimed, just one month after the JFK assassination, to have been privy to Oswald's KGB files while Oswald was in the Soviet Union, and told the CIA that the KGB had had absolutely no interest whatsoever in "unstable" Oswald, and that there was, therefore, nothing at all in Oswald's KGB files to indicate that Department 13 had ever interviewed him.

Or something like that.

--  Tommy :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
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Tommy,

LOL I can get you some new glasses.

...second third sentence

...under the   -  4  -

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=83&tab=page

Yea I've looked at the Golitsyn/Nosenko feud several times. I lean toward believing Golitsyn. Was LHO really trying to commit suicide? This was where the "unstable" notion comes from. If not, it was simply a last ditch attempt to remain in the USSR. He doesn't seem to have bled to much, he tells the Intourist lady (KGB handler) that he didn't even pass out. I know everyone is different but I can't even give 1 pint without passing out.

Were LHO's scars across the wrist or lenthgth-wise up his arm?

Edited by Chris Newton
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23 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Tommy,

LOL I can get you some new glasses.

...second third sentence

...under the   -  4  -

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=83&tab=page

Yea I've looked at the Golitsyn/Nosenko feud several times. I lean toward believing Golitsyn. Was LHO really trying to commit suicide? This was where the "unstable" notion comes from. If not, it was simply a last ditch attempt to remain in the USSR. He doesn't seem to have bled to much, he tells the Intourist lady (KGB handler) that he didn't even pass out. I know everyone is different but I can't even give 1 pint without passing out.

Were LHO's scars across the wrist or lenthgth-wise up his arm?

Tommy,

LOL I can get you some new glasses.

...second third sentence

...under the   -  4  -

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=83&tab=page

....................................................................................................

Sorry Dude,

Although I was wrong when I said there was no "page 4" in the document to which I was referring, even after I put my glasses on I could still not find the words "deflection" or "obfuscation" on it.

I guess it's time for me to visit my optometrist again, huh.

--  Tommy :sun

PS  You believe Nosenko, I believe Golitsyn.

 

Edited by Thomas Graves
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1 minute ago, Thomas Graves said:

Although I was wrong when I said there was no "page 4" in the document to which I was referring, even after I put my glasses on I could still not find the words "deflection" or "obfuscation" on it.

I guess it's time for me to visit my optometrist again, huh.

That was my comment about the notes taken about Angleton's comments about RFK's assassination. Sorry for the confusion.

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10 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

Tommy,

LOL I can get you some new glasses.

...second third sentence

...under the   -  4  -

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=83&tab=page

Yea I've looked at the Golitsyn/Nosenko feud several times. I lean toward believing Golitsyn. Was LHO really trying to commit suicide? This was where the "unstable" notion comes from. If not, it was simply a last ditch attempt to remain in the USSR. He doesn't seem to have bled to much, he tells the Intourist lady (KGB handler) that he didn't even pass out. I know everyone is different but I can't even give 1 pint without passing out.

Were LHO's scars across the wrist or lenthgth-wise up his arm?

Sorry Dude, although I was wrong when I said there was no "page 4" in the document to which i was referring, when I put my glasses on and looked at that page again, I still could not find the words "deflection" or "obfuscation" on it.

I guess I really should visit my optometrist, huh.

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8 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

That was my comment about the notes taken about Angleton's comments about RFK's assassination. Sorry for the confusion.

Huh?

--  Tommy :sun

I thought we were talking about JFK assassination.

Which MFF "document page" can I find what you're talking about on?  "Document page" 18. "document page" 37, ................. where?

Edited by Thomas Graves
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51 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Chris,

Regardless of the fact that there is no "page 4" in the well-paginated three-page document I've been talking about (btw, it begins here: http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=1462#relPageId=80&tab=page ), and despite the fact that neither "deflection" nor "obfuscation" is mentioned in said three-page document, I will go ahead and try to answer your question in a general kind-of-way by saying that it's pretty well known by now that when "major defector" KGB major Anatoliy Golitsyn defected to the U.S. on December 15, 1961, he immediately predicted that the KGB would send a fake KGB "defector" to the U.S. to, I suppose, "deflect and obfuscate" what Golitsyn was telling the CIA (in particular James Jesus Angleton, whom Golitsyn had insisted upon "spilling the beans" to).

Perhaps it's just a coincidence that, whereas Golitsyn claimed that, according to KGB and GRU policy, every U.S. military man (or woman) who defected to the Soviet Union would automatically be interviewed by KGB's Department 13 in order to determine whether or not said defector had any knowledge of U.S. military weapons which might be of interest to the Soviet Union, another KGB officer, Yuri Nosenko, who started "defecting" in place in 1962 and full-on "defected" in January, 1964, remarkably claimed, just one month after the JFK assassination, to have been privy to Oswald's KGB files while Oswald was in the Soviet Union, and told the CIA that the KGB had had absolutely no interest whatsoever in "unstable" Oswald, and that there was, therefore, nothing at all in Oswald's KGB files to indicate that Department 13 had ever interviewed him.

I believe the "major defector" Golitsyn.  I don't believe Nosenko.

--  Tommy :sun

edited and bumped

Edited by Thomas Graves
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