A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Sandy Larsen]

43 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

Plus Greg Parker did an excellent job of showing how that photo was altered by Jack White ....

Sometimes it seems like Greg Parker has more conspiracy theories about JFK researchers he dislikes than he does  about the JFK assassination.  LOL

 

[Jim Hargrove]

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

Plus Greg Parker did an excellent job of showing how that photo was altered by Jack White in this thread.

And Mr. Parker was dead wrong, again.  Jack White had nothing to do with the image.  As I explained later in the thread, John Armstrong purchased the "re-transmitted" Associated Press/Wide World Photos image of LEE Oswald and pasted it over the washed out image in the Fort Worth newspaper to show people how the revised photo would look. 

This is the Fort Worth Star-Telegram image as it originally appeared in the newspaper.

 

And here is the "re-transmitted" AP/WWP version:

Here is the image that John prepared from the two images above.

Feel free to scour the internet and search for photos that don't look like their subjects, but it simply isn't normal to post a mug shot of someone as washed out and unrecognizable as that image posted in the 1959 Fort Worth newspaper.  It effectively obscured the identity of the man who went to Russia as a spy. By all means, tell us that ANY of these images look like "Lee Harvey Oswald."

[Michael Walton]

Jim didn't  you  admit in that thread  that you had it wrong about the composite photo?

I  don't  recall  you  retracting your error.

[Jim Hargrove]

I don't remember, and I'm not going to re-read that entire thread to find out.  What is clear, though, is that the minute I took the time to talk to John about the images, I understood what had happened.  Jack White had nothing to do with it, as I clearly stated later in the thread.  Instead of attacking a deceased researcher, why don't you guys explain why such a terrible picture would be posted in the home town newspaper of "Lee Harvey Oswald."  It isn't normal, no matter what you find scouring the net.

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

But to think that everything in this case has been altered or manipulated is quite a stretch.

Not everything... only the "evidence" that incriminates "Lee Harvey Oswald" or turns his biography into the fairy tale the MSM endlessly feeds us.  There is plenty of evidence at the National Archives pointing to "Lee Harvey Oswald's" guilt.  If you believe the Magic Bullet and the Magic Money Order are genuine, for example, you should join Mr. Parnell defending the Warren Commission findings. Do you really think we're hearing the truth about "Oswald" is Mexico City from the nightly news?

To understand what REALLY happened 11/22/63, we have to pay special attention to the evidence the FBI and the WC neglected to suppress or alter.  Hoover's FBI was preparing a written report indicating "Oswald" killed JFK without help from others within 24 hours of the assassination, before even considering whether other government officials were targets.

Major U.S. news institutions decided to go along with the FBI's bs., as this recently released document attests:

 

I have shown many times how the FBI altered statements by Dealey Plaza witnesses who saw evidence of gunmen outside the Book Depository.  I have shown how the WC altered the testimony of James Cadigan, who inadvertently admitted that the so-called possessions of "Lee Harvey Oswald" had been secretly sent to FBI headquarters the very night of the assassination, altered, and secretly returned to Dallas police before being publicly sent back to Washington.  During these secret transfers, an expensive Minox "spy" camera famously became a much less expensive Minox light meter, and many other documents were altered and invented.

For much more on this, see:

Manipulated, Fabricated, and Disappearing Evidence
 

[Michael Walton]

16 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

I have shown many times how the FBI altered statements by Dealey Plaza witnesses who saw evidence of gunmen outside the Book Depository.  

Yes Jim, anyone who really studies the case with an open mind will find the so-called "fitting of the narrative" to blame the murder on Oswald. And yes, media manipulation started that very weekend to push that lone nut narrative.

[Joe Bauer]

Oswald's items:

Compass, pedometer, binoculars, telescope...???

Was Oswald a hiker of the wilderness? A gazer of stars at midnight.

I don't recall Marina ever recalling she and Oswald with child ever going out to do such things outside of maybe a picnic in a city park? Or of Oswald himself doing these kinds of activities?

Held onto items like this through move after poverty move just seem so incongruous to Oswald's lifestyle.  Just more intriguing things about the whole affair that don't make sense unless you add in some other equation.  Like the torn dollar bill found on Oswald at the theater?

 

Edited November 18, 2017 by Joe Bauer

[Jim Hargrove]

2 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

Just more intriguing things about the whole affair that don't make sense unless you add in some other equation.  Like the torn dollar bill found on Oswald at the theater?

Those two torn-in-half dollar bills are fascinating.  From the Dallas Police Department online archive on “Oswald” …

On our website, John wrote this:  “After his arrest, the police found two halves of two different dollar bills in his wallet. This was a method of clandestine contact. Wherever and whenever Oswald met his contact, this person would provide confirmation of his identity with the other half of these dollar bills. Curiously, neither of these items were listed on the police inventory of 11/23/63, the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63 (Oswald's so-called possessions), nor were they photographed. At the National Archives, in Adelphi, MD, I inspected and handled each item of inventory listed on the joint FBI/DPD inventory of 11/26/63. These items were not among the inventory.”

Years ago, I did an Internet search of the two serial numbers. One of them came up, if memory serves, in what sounded like a major counterfeiting case from years ago.  It’s a weird story, without any supporting evidence whatsoever, but why would DPD make up this document? 

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎10‎/‎27‎/‎2017 at 6:35 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Check Armstrong's book. It is full of references to work done by the HSCA. You can't credibly pick and choose what information you believe and what you don't believe. 

Tracy,

It seems to me that every CTer picks and chooses what parts of the WC and the HSCA to believe, and which parts to disbelieve. 

For example, I believe everything spoken by Marina Oswald while she was under oath to the WC.  I also believe everything spoken by Ruth Paine in her WC testimony, and 99.99% of the testimony of the Dallas Russians (excluding small parts of George DeMohrenschildt's testimony).

Yet I disbelieve nearly everything spoken by General Walker, Robert Alan Surrey, Warren Reynolds, Revilo P. Oliver, Bernie Weissman, Sheriff Bill Decker, Chief Jesse Curry, Deputy Buddy Walthers, Postmaster Harry Holmes, Dallas FBI agent James Hosty, and many more.

What I find, on the contrary, is that most CTers (blaming the CIA) will take a REVERSE position to mine.

IMHO, Marina Oswald added nothing at all to her testimony when confronted by the HSCA under oath.  She had nothing further to add, because she already gave everything to the Warren Commission -- as her good faith effort to remain in the USA with her babies.

All CTers pick and choose.  That's my experience.  My objection to the Harvey and Lee CT is its lack of logical rigor, and its willingness to jump to the conclusions with which it began.   For example, Jim's "21 'Facts' Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA"    All rubbish.

Still -- all of us pick and choose, sir.  That's my opinion.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 21, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[W. Tracy Parnell]

7 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Still -- all of us pick and choose, sir.  That's my opinion.

You are correct that every one "picks and chooses" to some degree. Every piece of information can't be correct of course. My point was that the H&L gang believes that the FBI, WC, HSCA and about everyone fabricated evidence according to them. How do they know what to believe? Simple-they believe that which fits their theory and disbelieve that which doesn't. In your example, you said you disbelieve Walker (nearly all). But they pick and choose what to believe from every source regardless of who it is. A little too convenient for me anyway.

[Jim Hargrove]

8 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

  For example, Jim's "20 'Facts' Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA"    All rubbish.

Really?

21 Facts Indicating the Oswald Project Was Run by the CIA

1. CIA accountant James Wilcott said he made payments to an encrypted account for “Oswald or the Oswald Project.”

2. Antonio Veciana said he saw LHO meeting with CIA’s Maurice Bishop/David Atlee Phillips in Dallas in August 1963.

3. A 1978 CIA memo indicates that a CIA operations officer “had run an agent into the USSR, that man having met a Russian girl and eventually marrying her,” a case very similar to Oswald’s and clearly indicating that the Agency ran a “false defector” program in the 1950s.

4. Robert Webster and LHO "defected" a few months apart in 1959, both tried to "defect" on a Saturday, both possessed "sensitive" information of possible value to the Russians, both were befriended by Marina Prusakova, and both returned to the United States in the spring of 1962.

5. Richard Sprague, Richard Schweiker, and CIA agents Donald Norton and Joseph Newbrough all said LHO was associated with the CIA. 

6. CIA employee Donald Deneslya said he read reports of a CIA "contact" who had worked at a radio factory in Minsk and returned to the US with a Russian wife and child.

7. Kenneth Porter, employee of CIA-connected Collins Radio, left his family to marry (and probably monitor) Marina Oswald after LHO’s death.

8. George Joannides, case officer and paymaster for DRE (which LHO had attempted to infiltrate) was put in charge of lying to the HSCA and never told them of his relationship to DRE.

9. For his achievements, Joannides was given a medal by the CIA.

10. FBI took Oswald off the watch list at the same time a CIA cable gave him a clean bill of political health, weeks after Oswald’s New Orleans arrest and less than two months before the assassination.

11. Oswald’s lengthy “Lives of Russian Workers” essay reads like a pretty good intelligence report.

12. Oswald’s possessions were searched for microdots.

13. Oswald owned an expensive Minox spy camera, which the FBI tried to make disappear.

14. Even the official cover story of the radar operator near American U-2 planes defecting to Russia, saying he would give away all his secrets, and returning home without penalty smells like a spy story.

15. CIA Richard Case Nagell clearly knew about the plot to assassinate JFK and LHO’s relation to it, and he said that the CIA and the FBI ignored his warnings.

16. LHO always seemed poor as a church mouse, until it was time to go “on assignment.”  For his Russian adventure, we’re to believe he saved all the money he needed for first class European hotels and private tour guides in Moscow from the non-convertible USMC script he saved. In the summer of 1963, he once again seemed to have enough money to travel abroad to Communist nations.

17. To this day, the CIA claims it never interacted with Oswald, that it didn’t even bother debriefing him after the “defection.” What utter bs….

18. After he “defected” to the Soviet Union in 1959, bragging to U.S. embassy personnel in Moscow that he would tell the Russians everything he knew about U.S. military secrets, he returns to the U.S. without punishment and is then in 1963 given the OK to travel to Cuba and the Soviet Union again!

19. Allen Dulles, the CIA director fired by JFK, and the Warren Commission clearly wanted the truth hidden from the public to protect sources and methods of intelligence agencies such as the CIA. Earl Warren said, “Full disclosure was not possible for reasons of national security.”

20. CIA's Ann Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....”  When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct."  When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one."

21. President Kennedy and the CIA clearly were at war with each other in the weeks immediately before his assassination, as evidenced by Arthur Krock's infamous defense of the Agency in the Oct. 3, 1963 New York Times. “Oswald” was the CIA’s pawn.

[Paul Trejo]

Yes, Jim, really.   You take a dogmatic approach to your Harvey & Lee cult, and you expect to be taken at your word.

(You also except your cult leader, John Armstrong, to be taken at his word.  No way, Jose!)

Most Americans don't buy that sort of "logic."   You need harder evidence than innuendo.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 21, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

5 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

You are correct that every one "picks and chooses" to some degree. Every piece of information can't be correct of course.

My point was that the H&L gang believes that the FBI, WC, HSCA and about everyone fabricated evidence according to them.

How do they know what to believe? Simple-they believe that which fits their theory and disbelieve that which doesn't. In your example, you said you disbelieve Walker (nearly all).

But they pick and choose what to believe from every source regardless of who it is. A little too convenient for me anyway.

Tracy,

On these points we agree 100%.   The Harvey & Lee religion, with its dogmatic preachers, have a quasi-paranoid CT that involves decades of CIA planning to create a "Manchurian Candidate" out of Lee Harvey Oswald (and a so-called body double), and include even Oswald's high-school dropout mother in their CIA plot.

It's beyond ridiculous, it's science fiction.  They are looking for a Hollywood contract, I'm convinced.  The TRUTH has never been on their radar.  Dogma is their stock in trade, and so in one sense, your efforts here are heroic -- pointing out flaws in almost every single  post that Jim Hargrove and David Josephs post here.

I do salute you, sir.

HAPPY THANKSGIVING,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 21, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jim Hargrove]

Thanks for all the generalities, opinions, and platitudes, Mr. Trejo.  Now can we discuss the facts?  Here's one ....

CIA's Ann Egerter, who worked for J.J. Angleton's Counterintelligence Special Interest Group (CI/SIG), opened a "201" file on Oswald on December 9, 1960. Egerter testified to the HSCA: "We were charged with the investigation of Agency personnel....”  When asked if the purpose was to "investigate Agency employees," she answered, "That is correct."  When asked, "Would there be any other reason for opening up a file?" she answered, "No, I can't think of one."

What is your explanation for this?

[W. Tracy Parnell]

1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said:

They are looking for a Hollywood contract, I'm convinced. 

I never considered this possibility Paul, but you may be right!