A Couple of Real Gems from the "Harvey and Lee" Website

[Jim Hargrove]

On 5/4/2017 at 9:30 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Parnell continues to tell us that the U.S. government can be trusted to investigate itself in the tragic matter of the Kennedy assassination.

There are many proven examples of government malfeasance in this case.  Here are several of my favorites, since they just take seconds to explain.

One is FBI agent James Cadigan's sworn testimony that was altered because he inadvertently explained that that possessions of "Lee Harvey Oswald" were secretly transferred to the FBI on the very night of JFK's assassination, then secretly returned to Dallas a few days later, and then publicly sent to the FBI a few days after that.

 

 

And Atty. Mark Lane, soon after the publication of the Warren Commission report and other volumes, interviewed three Dealey Plaza witnesses showing how the FBI altered their observations suggesting there were other shooters in the Plaza.  Watch this three minute video:
 

 

I have already shown earlier in this thread how dishonest the HSCA was in attempting to explain how "Lee Harvey Oswald" was simultaneously in Japan and Taiwan (and en route to Taiwan).  There are many other examples of both the Warren Commission's and the HSCA's treachery in this case, but Mr. Parnell wants us to believe their "evidence" anyway.

 

Will no Warren Commission defender on this forum answer this simple post?

[Jim Hargrove]

On 4/30/2017 at 11:32 AM, Jim Hargrove said:

I've presented the real evidence for Harvey's Russian fluency several times.  With no evidence of ever having had any formal training in Russian whatsoever, how did he attain such fluency in it so quickly?  How did he learn to write like this:

 

Bump!

[Jim Hargrove]

14 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Yo-ho-ho, Tommy….

I’ve been away from home and ignoring the Internets for a while, but now I’m back and ready to discuss stuff....

What “gem” from Harvey and Lee would you like to attack next?  Do you still want to talk about Russian-speaking Harvey Oswald’s incredible Russian-speaking abilities? Or, uh, do you need to speak to Gregory Parker first?

If not, let’s talk about this:

As I keep saying, I’ve been reluctant to use Marina Prusakova’s testimony in my arguments about Harvey Oswald’s Russian fluency because I think she was really put in a difficult position of having to hide her own English proficiency from the U.S.G., which forced her to be less than totally forthcoming.  But here’s another part of her HSCA testimony that I do tend to believe, partly because it was confirmed by DeMohrenschildt. 

Mr. McDONALD. Did he read a lot when he was in the Soviet
Union?
Mrs. PORTER. Yes.
Mr. McDONALD. What kind of books did he read there?
Mrs. PORTER. Novels mostly.
Mr. McDONALD. What kind of novels?
Mrs. PORTER. What you call maybe as classical novels, some
Russian classic writers.
Mr. McDONALD. The novels or the books that he read in the
Soviet Union, were they in Russian?
Mrs. PORTER. They were in Russian; yes.

And, of course, DeMohrenschildt added that “it amazed me that he read such difficult writers like Gorki, Dostoevski, Gogol, Tolstoi and Turgenieff -- in Russian.”

We’re told that Harvey Oswald arrived in Russia on October 15, 1959 and married Marina on April 30, 1961.  Are we to believe that Harvey taught himself enough Russian in a year and a half in Russia to read and discuss the “difficult writers” De M. talked about?  Really??  No doubt a linguist as smart as you could do that effortlessly.  No doubt Parker/Parnell will agree.

Love is a wonderful thing, eh?  Do you agree?
 

Could this be wrong?

[W. Tracy Parnell]

10 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Could this be wrong?

Of course, the fact that he had access to Russian books and read them, at least to some extent, does not prove the Armstrong theory of "Harvey" at all. If you had some proof that he had the ability to read every word in these books perfectly before that was possible, you might have something. But the evidence shows only a gradual progression in his ability and his study of the books was a part of that process. By the time he arrived in the US, he had a reasonable proficiency in reading and writing the language.

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

By the time he arrived in the US, he had a reasonable proficiency in reading and writing the language.

"reasonable proficiency"

ok Tracy...  you're aware of the Gregory boys and how Oswald secures a letter related to his "reasonable proficiency"

On June 19 Oswald met Peter Paul Gregory in his office at the Continental Life 398 Building in Fort Worth. Gregory spoke with Oswald in Russian and then wrote a "To whom it may concern" letter which stated that Oswald had "a good knowledge of the Russian language" and was "capable of being an interpreter and perhaps a translator." Gregory said that Oswald spoke Russian fairly well, but with somewhat of a Polish accent. 53

footnote 53: WC Exhibit 1792

This exhibit explains how the FBI first interviewed Marina at the Six Flags Inn on Nov 27th without an interpreter yet these men were able to explain Marina's feelings in pretty good detail with no one speaking Russian in the room.

The next day Mr. Peter Paul Gregory is called by the FBI reporting agent asking Peter to work with Marina telling her the reporting agent was NOT FBI, so she might cooperate more fully.  

=========

Mr. Gregory claims that after that June day with Oswald he did not hear of Lee Oswald again until Nov 22...  yet for some reason Mr. Gregory, whose main line of work is that of "Oil-Consultant" is the interpreter contacted.  The FBI in Dallas TX had as its only Russian interpretation resource an Oil Consultant who had coincidentally certified the "reasonably proficient" Oswald as an interpreter and possibly a translator.  One has to wonder of the value of this letter from a "consulting petroleum engineer"  beyond more of the dog and pony show trying to connect Harvey Oswald to "learning" Russian rather than already having that ability.

One more thread of "coincidence" is that Paul Roderick Gregory went to STRIPLING JR HIGH in 1953/54, Robert Oswald claims his brother went to Stripling that year.

Numerous witnesses describe the Oswald boy who lived across from the school.
Marguerite, in 1947, is driven to 2220 Thomas to pick up furniture by Lucille HUBBARD
Marguerite, in 1963, is living at 2220 Thomas 
2220 Thomas is owned by a friend of FRED KORTH, who Marguerite claims "handled Lee's discharge"

Just so many Coincidences - right ?  

[David Andrews]

somewhat of a Polish accent

Geographically, that may align with the Russian report of a defector Oswald who spoke with a "Baltic" accent.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

20 hours ago, David Josephs said:

One more thread of "coincidence" is that Paul Roderick Gregory went to STRIPLING JR HIGH in 1953/54, Robert Oswald claims his brother went to Stripling that year.

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/robert-oswald-and-stripling.html

[Jim Hargrove]

On 6/8/2017 at 7:51 AM, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Of course, the fact that he had access to Russian books and read them, at least to some extent, does not prove the Armstrong theory of "Harvey" at all. If you had some proof that he had the ability to read every word in these books perfectly before that was possible, you might have something. But the evidence shows only a gradual progression in his ability and his study of the books was a part of that process. By the time he arrived in the US, he had a reasonable proficiency in reading and writing the language.

The evidence shows the exact opposite of what Mr. Parnell suggests.  Little more than a year after arriving in the Soviet Union, “Lee Harvey Oswald” was, according to Marina, reading “classical novels, some Russian classic writers… in Russian.”  According to Mr. Parnell’s Theory of Reading Education, beginning readers in the U.S. should start out reading James Joyce and William Faulkner, not more simple things like “Dick and Jane” or other beginning books.

Even more laughable is Mr. Parnell’s attempt to dismiss the evidence that Oswald attended Stripling School, memorialized in his amusingly short and incomplete Web essay:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/robert-oswald-and-stripling.html

Mr. Parnell neglects to inform his readers that fellow Stripling classmates Doug Gann, Bobby Pitts, and Fran Schubert all remembered Lee HARVEY Oswald attended Stripling.  Fran Schubert even submitted to a YouTube interview with John Armstrong:

Gym teacher Mark Summers, who didn’t begin teaching at Stripling until 1950, remembered that Oswald was in his gym class.

Mr. Parnell apparently does not want to alert his readers to John’s YouTube interview with Stripling assistant principal Frank Kudlaty, who gave Lee HARVEY Oswald’s Stripling records to the FBI immediately after the assassination. 

The house at 2220 Thomas that DJ talked about above was directly across the street from Stripling, and was clearly some sort of CIA safe house, lived in by “Marguerite” at several different times from the 1940s to the 1960s.

[David Josephs]

2 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

http://wtracyparnell.blogspot.com/2017/04/robert-oswald-and-stripling.html

Read more carefully Tracy... it's JENNER who makes the mistake and by proxy, Robert...  it is the WC that is mistaken, and you who chooses to cherry-pick the sentence that helps you and fails to offer the very next words which render your argument moot...  

In OCTOBER 1952 he would already be in the 52-53 school year...
Even you can't argue your way around that.

Stripling for 2 years: 52-53 & 53-54...

You stake your entire rebuttal argument of Robert agreeing to JENNER's mistake?  When the very next sentence clears it up...

"And as soon as he was through with his sixth year, he started attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School. "

Yet of course you'd stop there...  Testimony continues:  Seems to most anyone reading that little Ozzie here would enter Stripling after 6th grade which he graduated from in JUNE 1952.  Yet a Lee H Oswald attends schools in NYC starting in Sept 1952....

Mr. JENNER. As soon as he finished the sixth year at Ridglea Elementary School, he entered W. C. Stripling High School, as a seventh grader? 
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir--junior high school. 
Mr. JENNER. Now, the condition that you described as to Lee shifting for himself during the daytime, when your mother was away working and you were away working, and your brother John was in the Coast Guard, continued, I take it, when he began attendance and while he was attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School? 
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. 

Robert also lies about his being in NY in 1952 by moving forward a year to 1953... and then stating the BRONX ZOO photo is August 1953...
Mr. JENNER - Then right below that is a picture of a young man standing in front of an iron fence, which appears to be probably at a zoo. Do you recognize that? 
Mr. PIC - Sir, from that picture, I could not recognize that that is Lee Harvey Oswald. 

That's because a 5'4" 115lb 7th grader in Sept 1953 does not become a 4'10" 90lb 8th grader in Aug 1953. 
You must remember that class pictures had the tallest in the class standing in the back with the shortest kids sitting in front.

Will you look at that... a year earlier Oswald is one of the largest kids in class...

 

 

Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir; we were corresponding infrequently, I would say--not very many letters between I and Lee direct when I was in the service, especially the first part of my tour in the service.
In 1952, after traveling from Camp Pendleton, Calif., to Jacksonville, Fla. I did have a 10-day leave. They were in New York City at that time. 
Mr. JENNER. This was then some time in 1953, I take it? 
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir--1952. 
Mr. JENNER. 1952? 
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. This was---- 
Mr. JENNER. You mean your mother and Lee that is the period of time they were in New York City? 
Mr. OSWALD. That's correct. 
Mr. JENNER. Living there. 
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. 
Mr. JENNER. Did you see them? 
Mr. OSWALD. No, sir; not at that time. I spent my leave in Fort Worth, because I did not feel I had enough time to travel to New York and down to Jacksonville, Fla. After completing metalsmith school at Millington, Tenn., I took a 10-day leave. 
Mr. JENNER. Fix the time. 
Mr. OSWALD. This was July or August of 1953.

Mr. PIC - I think this was, his leave was probably in October or November 1952, a matter of a month or two after they had moved out. We visited their apartment in the Bronx. 
Mr. JENNER - Excuse me, where did your brother stay? 
Mr. PIC - I think he stayed at the Soldier-Sailor-Airmen Club in New York. 
Mr. JENNER - In any event he did not stay with you. 
Mr. PIC - No, sir; he may have stayed with my mother also. I don't think so. Maybe for a night or two. We went out, my wife fixed him up with a date with one of her girl friends and we went out together a couple of times. So, we were invited up there for this Sunday dinner. So it was my mother, Lee, Robert, my wife, myself, and my son. 
Robert was already there when we arrived. 

yet you can still write: 

"Robert was simply off in his calculations by a few months. LHO never attended Stripling despite witnesses to the contrary such as Robert Oswald."

   oh my... excellent research Tracy...     in your world, do the WC lawyers EVER do anything underhanded and nefarious?  My goodness.

 

Seems to me JENNER here wants it so badly to be the year previous...  

Mr. JENNER. And, at that time, I take it your brother Lee was attending Arlington Heights High School? That would be 1952?
Mr. OSWALD. Just a minute, please.
In 1952 Lee was 13 years old. He would be attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School then.
Mr. JENNER. I see. For the school year 1951-52? 
Mr. OSWALD. Yes, sir. Junior high school there was from the seventh to the ninth grades. And as soon as he was through with his sixth year, he started attending W. C. Stripling Junior High School. 

 

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

David,

Not much else I can add here. It is a fact that the one and only LHO left with his mother for NY in August, 1952. Robert assumed LHO went to Stripling but he did not.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

8 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Mr. Parnell neglects to inform his readers that fellow Stripling classmates Doug Gann, Bobby Pitts, and Fran Schubert all remembered Lee HARVEY Oswald attended Stripling.  Fran Schubert even submitted to a YouTube interview with John Armstrong:

Most of the Stripling witnesses "remembered" seeing LHO there years later after prompting by Armstrong.

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

David,

Not much else I can add here. It is a fact that the one and only LHO left with his mother for NY in August, 1952. Robert assumed LHO went to Stripling but he did not.

 

Some truth, some not in that sentence Tracy.  Lee and his mother did go to NY, to Pic's home, summer 1952.

From my POV, Robert is not one of the sheep in this western.  

Prompting and coincidences, I know, I know..

Have a nice weekend.

[Michael Walton]

So based on this continuing thread, which I thought had ended due to its sheer hilariousness, let me just recap not only this funny thread but others for the kids.

We're expected to believe the following:

Lee Oswald had a clone, a boy who looked somewhat like him, was found in Hungary, brought over here, had a mother who also looked almost the same as Lee's but had a unibrow...and never smiled.

This all was started by some unnamed US government agency and supposedly happened back in the early 1950's.

Even though this happened 10 years before Dallas, we have no idea WHY the government would take little Lee and his clone, and their smiling and unsmiling Moms, under their wings.

Both boys and their un-unibrow and unibrow Moms were living in different places, but then were switched and lived in the place where their clone was previously.

On 11/22, Lee was arrested for JFK's murder and the clone and his unibrow Mom were never heard from again.

The author of the above and his followers wrote a book about the above and sell it for $60.

And many people out there actually believe the story and bought the book.

***
And some other hilarious nonsense while we're at it:

All of the films shot on 11/22 were scooped up by the government.

The government then proceeded with altering all of these films to take out any and all signs of conspiracy.

But in the Zapruder film, which shows that the shot sequence the government is trying to pass down as the official sequence, shows that it could not have happened that way.

But - OOPS - the government, after removing all instances of conspiracy, leaves that part in. Maybe the film editors were out that day. This we do not know for sure.

And for all of the government's film editing prowess, one film was not doctored but simply squirreled away, never to be seen again in over 50 years. That's the Babushka lady's film.

And many people out there actually believe the scooped-up-and-altered films story.

***
And then:

A woman named Judy Baker holds onto her income statements from 1963 - 30 years afterward - like most people in America do.  We never hear from her about anything in the way of a love affair with Lee Oswald until over 30 years after the alleged affair takes place.

But she writes a money-grubbing book stating that she knew Oswald, had an affair with him, and was doing cancer research and gave cancer cells in a jar for him to take with him while he went to Mexico City.

And many people out there bought the book and actually believe her story. And some people who used to believe but no longer do have said this Baker woman is persuasive and hypnotic, never mind that these same people didn't have it in them to see through charlatans. You know, the same kind of people who would fall for crystal ball and tarot card readings.

***
Then we have a pretty good theory here, the mystery of a guy named Prayer Man, who looks like Oswald and is actually seen in films during and immediately following the shooting, standing in the shadows of the entrance of the building where he works.

While this was happening, the real Oswald is supposedly up on the sixth floor firing his gun and killing Kennedy.

If Prayer Man is Oswald, then it's a deal breaker, the ultimate proof once and for all that conspiracy took place in the Kennedy murder.

And yet, the same people who fall for the ridiculousness of the Lee and his clone, the scooped up film alterations, Judy Baker, and many many other crazy stories, often times argue AGAINST the Prayer Man theory.

These same people say the figure in the films is a woman, or he's too short, too tall, too this, too that, he wears a dress, and on and on.

Some even question if the figure and/or others in the images are even there, or how could the photos depict the figures, without having any clue at all how photography techniques and angles work.

Some of these people are double and triple majors in college.  We know this because when all other arguments are ended on this forum, they revert to the number of pieces of paper hanging up on their walls, or because a report told them they're very intelligent.

***

So, kids, this is the current state of the JFK assassination research community. Is it any wonder why, when people on national TV are interviewed about the assassination and the conspiracy theory community is mentioned, these talking heads just smirk and shake their heads?

 

[Jim Hargrove]

On 6/8/2017 at 3:54 PM, David Andrews said:

somewhat of a Polish accent

Geographically, that may align with the Russian report of a defector Oswald who spoke with a "Baltic" accent.

Marina said that she thought Oswald spoke Russian "with a Baltic accent" when she first met him in early 1961, but I'd take that with a grain of salt.  She was probably trying to hide her command of English during her earliest years here and wouldn't want to say that she and her future husband spoke English in the USSR.  

[Michael Clark]

1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

So based on this continuing thread, which I thought had ended due to its sheer hilariousness, let me just recap not only this funny thread but others for the kids.

...............

The author of the above and his followers wrote a book about the above and sell it for $60.

 

I am betting that the book is worth every penny.