This was the plan all along. Flynn was a plant

[Michael Clark]

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/michael-flynn-negotiating-with-intel-committees-seeks-protection-lawyer-says/

I do not like Trump, but the plan was to be done with him ASAP. Flynn was the tool, stooge, plant.

Trump was an outsider and elected by the people. He will be gone according to crappy tricks that have been the norm since the JFKA. The MSM and the Higher Powers will have put him there, so he could be deleted.

Trump was the only hope to break the establishment control over the popular system.

same ole' same ole'

Edited March 31, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Kirk Gallaway]

I do not like Trump ---Not from anything I've picked up.You voted for him because you were down on dynasties. Who isn't? and you don't like liberals talking down to you.But it's a free country. You've already outed yourself as 911 truther. And that's cool as long as you don't insist on poisoning the forum by opening up that can of worms.So what's the big deal with voting for Trump?

Flynn was the tool, stooge, plant. The MSM and the Higher Powers will have put him there, so he could be deleted. ---First off, who are the "higher powers"? be specific."The MSM and the "higher power" who planted him? How was that done? Was Flynn manipulated like LHO? Wow!, those guys are great casters on the order of "Harvey and Lee". Shows what I know. I guess I thought maybe he was the only guy in the world who was a bigger loose canon than Donald Trump.  .

Trump was an outsider and elected by the people.------Wrong on both counts. Trump is a shill for the International bankers.As unlikely as that seems to you.He is the candidate that international corporate financial elites and the Republicans have been salivating for generations.Now they're just crossing their fingers, that he won't self destruct long enough that they can pass their agenda of a lifetime.His anti globalist "outsider" image  is  pablum for the masses.He's an outsider only in that he's a child in a man's world . The only thing he shares with his counterparts now is corruption. So now we have the Washington swamp plus the Trump swamp. As for the second part, As a New Yorker blue state person, I guess you feel generous giving part of your vote away to someone in Wisconsin, but I don't feel that generous. 

Trump was the only hope to break the establishment control over the popular system. ---Well you say you don't like him, I guess that makes you establishment! heh heh So obviously just kidding. Ok, let's look at his accomplishments so far. And so that's why he sold you down the river with Health Care benefits.You've also disclosed your not a spring chicken. You could find yourself in a situation where you  go bankrupt from a car accident or maybe even die from lack of affordability of health care from something unexpected that could happen to you in your next 10 years, or are you independently wealthy or expecting an inheritance?

Michael, You readily opine about politics, but I've never heard anything from you that tells me you have any understanding of policies. You're swayed by the surface aspects, the rhetoric, and strong bombast and the "outsider" image of Trump. You shouldn't content yourself with a thoughtless view of prevailing forces, but try to connect them as a whole and see the true effects of ones actions or policies.Even with the bar being lowered as much as it has. If Trump acted somewhat normal and was somewhat morally upstanding. I'm not clear why any "higher power" would be threatened by him. It would be just us little guys.

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Kirk Gallaway

[Michael Clark]

5 hours ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I do not like Trump ---Not from anything I've picked up.You voted for him because you were down on dynasties. Who isn't? and you don't like liberals talking down to you.But it's a free country. You've already outed yourself as 911 truther. And that's cool as long as you don't insist on poisoning the forum by opening up that can of worms.So what's the big deal with voting for Trump?

I didn't vote for Trump. I never said that I did. You made that up when you read my posts and with a quick, faulty, litmus test, you sent me to the chambers. I didn't say that I hated liberals talking down to me, I told you that "the Stupid eneducated" folks on the right hate Liberals for that. You have misrepresented what I said. I trust that you saw my "It was my Fault" post, did you listen to the audio essay? That essay said exactly what I was trying to say.

I did not say I was  a truther. You misrepresented me on that.

 

Flynn was the tool, stooge, plant. The MSM and the Higher Powers will have put him there, so he could be deleted. ---First off, who are the "higher powers"? be specific."The MSM and the "higher power" who planted him? How was that done? Was Flynn manipulated like LHO? Wow!, those guys are great casters on the order of "Harvey and Lee". Shows what I know. I guess I thought maybe he was the only guy in the world who was a bigger loose canon than Donald Trump.  .

I sensed what was going on weeks ago. The right probably could not beat HRC with any other candidate. They went with Trump and planted the "impeachment virus, or viruses". It's just a theory. I have long believed that Trump would not last long. I had to ask "then why". The answer had to be "to get an establishment guy in there" simply because that that is what is going to happen.

Trump was an outsider and elected by the people.------Wrong on both counts. Trump is a shill for the International bankers.As unlikely as that seems to you.He is the candidate that international corporate financial elites and the Republicans have been salivating for generations.Now they're just crossing their fingers, that he won't self destruct long enough that they can pass their agenda of a lifetime.His anti globalist "outsider" image  is  pablum for the masses.He's an outsider only in that he's a child in a man's world . The only thing he shares with his counterparts now is corruption. So now we have the Washington swamp plus the Trump swamp. As for the second part, As a New Yorker blue state person, I guess you feel generous giving part of your vote away to someone in Wisconsin, but I don't feel that generous. 

This is outside my comfort zone, but Trump is not Washington Elite, nor part of the old guard. That is what I mean.

Trump was the only hope to break the establishment control over the popular system. ---Well you say you don't like him, I guess that makes you establishment! heh heh So obviously just kidding. Ok, let's look at his accomplishments so far. And so that's why he sold you down the river with Health Care benefits.You've also disclosed your not a spring chicken. You could find yourself in a situation where you  go bankrupt from a car accident or maybe even die from lack of affordability of health care from something unexpected that could happen to you in your next 10 years, or are you independently wealthy or expecting an inheritance?

This comment was inline with your "healthy skepticism" thread. I had hopes of Trump taking away the unconstitutional and unwarranted powers that the intelligence agencies have collected over the years. I found it Ironic that suddenly, everyone seemed to trust the agancies when juxtaposed with Trump.

Michael, You readily opine about politics, but I've never heard anything from you that tells me you have any understanding of policies. You're swayed by the surface aspects, the rhetoric, and strong bombast and the "outsider" image of Trump. You shouldn't content yourself with a thoughtless view of prevailing forces, but try to connect them as a whole and see the true effects of ones actions or policies.Even with the bar being lowered as much as it has. If Trump acted somewhat normal and was somewhat morally upstanding. I'm not clear why any "higher power" would be threatened by him. It would be just us little guys.

I don't readily opine about politics, I avaoided most of those threads but made an effort to tie them in to the JFK assassination in order to stay on topic. But, it is just a characterization, "readily", I'll not fuss with that. You think I am a Trumper, I am not, I have just been looking for any good possible outcome. A nefarious, scheming plot to put someone in power, who was not elected, is bad. It's like another Ford presidency.

 

 

Edited March 31, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Paul Brancato]

Alternate theory. But first, Michael's theory actually occurred to me. However I don't think it's true. What I do think is that Trump is trying to contain the damage, and hoping that Flynn is given immunity so he can take the fall and not face major jail time. Michael - if Flynn was a plant then Trump and Bannon are fools. Why? Because his post military record was bad. If Trump wasn't so anxious to compare the CIA and FBI to the Nazis he might have vetted Flynn more carefully. He was an incredibly poor choice of plant given his record. And your theory ignores Manafort, and others like the Commerce Secretary, who have clear connections to Russian crime syndicates. The better conspiracy theory is that Russian crooks saved Trump's empire, and he owes them big time. Everything makes sense from that point of view.

i suggest you watch Day one of the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings. It should be clear to everyone that there is no doubt about Russian cyber operations. 8 murders of prominent Russians, and one in the hospital (maybe two) is proof of a coverup, as is the Trump administration scrambling instead of being forthright. FBI can prove, believe me, that hundreds of trolls and bots controlled by Russia flooded our social media with fake and divisive news. Watch the hearings. 

Edited April 1, 2017 by Paul Brancato

[Michael Clark]

48 minutes ago, Paul Brancato said:

Alternate theory. But first, Michael's theory actually occurred to me. However I don't think it's true. What I do think is that Trump is trying to contain the damage, and hoping that Flynn is given immunity so he can take the fall and not face major jail time. Michael - if Flynn was a plant then Trump and Bannon are fools. Why? Because his post military record was bad. If Trump wasn't so anxious to compare the CIA and FBI to the Nazis he might have vetted Flynn more carefully. He was an incredibly poor choice of plant given his record. And your theory ignores Manafort, and others like the Commerce Secretary, who have clear connections to Russian crime syndicates. The better conspiracy theory is that Russian crooks saved Trump's empire, and he owes them big time. Everything makes sense from that point of view.

i suggest you watch Day one of the Senate Intelligence Committee hearings. It should be clear to everyone that there is no doubt about Russian cyber operations. 8 murders of prominent Russians, and one in the hospital (maybe two) is proof of a coverup, as is the Trump administration scrambling instead of being forthright. FBI can prove, believe me, that hundreds of trolls and bots controlled by Russia flooded our social media with fake and divisive news. Watch the hearings. 

Thanks Paul. It seemed to me that, having been fired by Obama, Flynn was a perfect pick in terms of meeting the goal of reputiating the Obama administration. This would go a long way to placating his constituency. All it would take would be a stooge/advisor to recommend Flynn to Trump. Trump has no capacity to really make good decisions in this area, so that was easy.

Watching the hearings will indeed be interesting.

[Kirk Gallaway]

The better conspiracy theory is that Russian crooks saved Trump's empire, and he owes them big time. Everything makes sense from that point of view.

i agree Paul , that would seem to be most sensible explanation.We have a president whose declared bankruptcy 6 times. This is the latest figure I've heard. At some point he   became financially vulnerable with his credit sources drying up and was compromised by  Russian Oligarchies and Russian Mafia.  That in itself if revealed a year ago would have been enough to cook his aspirations, but the press was just focusing on on his ratings. I read Russ Baker's 2 articles. But it is interesting to note that the very same Russian figures are in play in a number of other sources as well without the reference to the FBI "being unable to tell on Trump."

It could be seen as quite a coincidence that people who were either running his campaign or his eventual cabinet members and advisors all had links to Russia. But of course International business people are always aware of other players in foreign locales and competing or networking and in this case the right banks to use. . I see it as Trump has ties, probably debts to pay, and has a unique advantage to team up with the Russian Oligarchs, Wilbur Ross, Rex Tillerson and then his own emissaries, Kushner, Page, Cohen to repatriate and draw American Investment. It is a sleeping giant.

 

[Paul Brancato]

Agree Kirk - not coincidence. 

Michael - did you just say that Trump hired Flynn because Obama fired him? Funny, you think we are surprisingly gullible to suddenly believe our Intelligence agencies when we are so aware of their nefarious history. I don't see any J Edgar Hoovers or Dulles brothers around. The last big flub by CIA was in the buildup to the Iraq war. But I didn't read it that way then or now. Cheney and Rumsfeld ran that show, and cherry picked the Intel. No way the CIA was unified behind that terrible decision. 

The other thing I'll point out again is that Flynn is not the only liability around Trump. He's just the likely sacrificial lamb. There's quite a list of folks that are in league with and making moolah from Russian Oligarchs. i don't have to name them. Kirk did already, and I'm sure you know. 

So the stooge that put Flynn's name in Trump's ear was who? Bannon? I assume whoever did that would be your suspect if Flynn was a plant. I quite agree with you that Trump is gullible. The thing that worries me most is that he will somehow remain president. He really shouldn't be there. He's an embarrassment. When you watch the FBI Russia expert in the Senate Intel hearing day one, you'll see just how much Russia influenced voters. The election result is not legitimate. This isn't sour grapes.  My opinion. 

[Michael Clark]

Kirk wrote:

But it's a free country.

.........and then......

You've already outed yourself as 911 truther. And that's cool as long as you don't insist on poisoning the forum by opening up that can of worms.

-----------------------------------------------------

Kirk, which is it? A free country? Or "don't bring that up here"?

There happens to be a 9-11 subforum here. I'll suggest that the poison IS events like the JFKA, Iran-Contra and Watergate. The symptoms are the fear of opening a can of worms, and the result of that fear is slavery and death, to democracy, freedom, ideas and, indeed, to people.

Cheers,

Michael

Edited April 1, 2017 by Michael Clark

[Kirk Gallaway]

I'll suggest that the poison IS events like the JFKA, Iran-Contra and Watergate. The symptoms are the fear of opening a can of worms, and the result of that fear is slavery and death, to democracy, freedom, ideas and, indeed, to people

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

Umm,......yeah cheers!

Edited April 1, 2017 by Kirk Gallaway

[Michael Clark]

48 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

I'll suggest that the poison IS events like the JFKA, Iran-Contra and Watergate. The symptoms are the fear of opening a can of worms, and the result of that fear is slavery and death, to democracy, freedom, ideas and, indeed, to people

Cheers,

Michael

 

 

Umm,......yeah cheers!

I am disappointed with how I feel that you have categorized me.

one question... am I correct that your comment about 9-11 being a "can of worms" means that you think that there is something nefarious there? I did interpret that way.

Cheers,

Michael

[Kirk Gallaway]

am I correct that your comment about 9-11 being a "can of worms" means that you think that there is something nefarious there? I did interpret that way.

 

911?----Nefarious???------no, no not at all

[Michael Clark]

21 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

am I correct that your comment about 9-11 being a "can of worms" means that you think that there is something nefarious there? I did interpret that way.

 

911?----Nefarious???------no, no not at all

Roger that. I could have been more specific. I'll leave you to your sorting-of-suspects function.

Cheers,

Michael

[Michael Clark]

24 minutes ago, Kirk Gallaway said:

am I correct that your comment about 9-11 being a "can of worms" means that you think that there is something nefarious there? I did interpret that way.

 

911?----Nefarious???------no, no not at all

To be sure, you've got my goat. I want you to answer whether you saw and listened to the audio essay, "It's My Fault", and what you think of it. 

Cheers,

Michael

[Larry Hancock]

Hate to jump into this but I think Paul has given a better characterization.  The thing everyone needs to realize is that for some 12 years at least, the FSB has been working on creating a new category of "agents of influence",  Actually that operation goes all the way back to 2,000 but it really accelerated when Russia oligarchs accumulated enough capital for overseas investments. I could recommend some good books on this, they cover the standard recruitment practices - but bottom line is that they cast a broad net, never knowing which person may end up in a position of influence.  Which is why you find not just Flynn but several Trump business associates who have been involved in various sorts of business with not just Russian firms but with Putin associates of all flavors, and not just Russians but Ukrainians and others. Think of it this way, when the US was the only big international money game in town the CIA leveraged American businessmen to the hilt. Now with so much legal and illegal Russian money and Putin associate money floating around, the FSB is able to play the same game.

[Michael Clark]

Thanks for the input Paul and Larry. I see that I ignored Paul's comment; that was inadvertent. I was distracted by Kirk, and needed time to think about a response for Paul.

I am not a deep political thinker when it comes to real-time politics. After I posted my initial blurb, I wished I had not, and I hoped it would just go in-noticed.

Not that I don't think it is true; It just requires a lot of background with regard to my perception of politics today. That perception is not worth much because it is only coherent to me; to others it is just more noise, static. 

What is simple to express is that I think we will end up with Pence as President, and I believe that was planned. I don't even have strong feelings about Pence one way or the other; I just have general distaste for Tea-Partiers. I also have a distaste for illegitimate means of achieving office.

I have reservations, to say the least, about the legitimacy of the election. That, however, is a problem with the process, which is handled by the states. A New Yorker crying foul is wasting his breath with regard to the election process in the other 49 states.

Edited May 8, 2017 by Michael Clark