Does Lifton's Best Evidence indicate that the coverup and the crime were committed by the same people?

[Paul Brancato]

Maybe QJ/WIN was Sidney Gottlieb

[Chris Newton]

Or with the Vietnam/Laos connection.... maybe Larry Thorne

[Thomas Graves]

Just now, Chris Newton said:

Or with the Vietnam/Laos connection.... maybe Larry Thorne

Or how about Comrade Kostin?

--  Tommy

[Chris Newton]

8 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Or how about Comrade Kostin?

--  Tommy

I guess we can tune into The History Channel and find out. But I suspect TUMBLEWEED had him on ice.

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Chris Newton said:

I guess we can tune into The History Channel and find out. But I suspect TUMBLEWEED had him on ice.

Ice is nice and will suffice.

TUMBLEWEED

Going from memory here I swear just to try, like a fool, to impress you -- Buerbell (spelling?) ?

Some Russian dude working at the U.N.?

Something to do with trying to get Azcue and / or ..... to defect? 

I don't have a clue, really.

Wasn't someone suspected of being a double agent?

--  Tommy

Edited April 28, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

5 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said:

Going from memory here I swear just to try, like a fool, to impress you -- Buerbell (spelling?) ?

Something to do with trying to get Azcue to defect?

So close: AEBURBLE

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AEBURBLE

I don't know about getting Azcue to defect... it could be under the same OP but I have no idea.

I'm still impressed.

[Thomas Graves]

11 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

So close: AEBURBLE

https://www.maryferrell.org/php/cryptdb.php?id=AEBURBLE

I don't know about getting Azcue to defect... it could be under the same OP but I have no idea.

I'm still impressed.

I may have conflated the TUMBLEWEED op with the Tilton - Anderson FPCC-discrediting op, or something that was piggybacked on it or being run against Azcue and / or Kostikov around the same time.

Or maybe not

--  Tommy

Edited April 28, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Chris Newton]

Just now, Thomas Graves said:

I may have conflated the TUMBLEWEED op with the Tilton - Anderson FPCC-discrediting op, or something that was piggybacked on it or being run against Azcue and / or Kostikov around the same time.

No, I think you are just slightly off target: DAP was allegedly trying to get Veciana to bite on a OP immediately after the assassination:

Quote

Later, Veciana told Fonzi that Bishop asked him, after the Kennedy assassination, to try to bribe a relative, Guillermo Ruiz, who worked as a diplomat at the Mexican Cuban Embassy, to testify that Oswald was a Cuban agent.

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_001-025/doc0017.html

Azcue was the outgoing Cuban Consulate general counsel. He was already on the outs before Oswald arrived despite what was alleged in the "Kostin" letter. I do think Azcues mention there and the writer's knowledge of his status was an attempt to establish the writers "bonafides" beyond the mention of "Kostin".

 

[Cliff Varnell]

2 hours ago, Thomas Graves said:

Dear Cliff,

Please tell me something I don't already know.

--  Tommy

How would I know what you already know?

[Thomas Graves]

14 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

No, I think you are just slightly off target: DAP was allegedly trying to get Veciana to bite on a OP immediately after the assassination:

http://cuban-exile.com/doc_001-025/doc0017.html

Azcue was the outgoing Cuban Consulate general counsel. He was already on the outs before Oswald arrived despite what was alleged in the "Kostin" letter. I do think Azcues mention there and the writer's knowledge of his status was an attempt to establish the writers "bonafides" beyond the mention of "Kostin".

 

There has been some speculation by serious, highly-regarded researchers (Simpich?) to the effect that one of the ostensible reasons Oswald was sent to Mexico City was to "feel out for defection" Azcue and / or Kostikov and / or Proenza, iirc.

But we digress.

How's the search of more typewritten-by-Ruthie letters coming along?

--  Tommy

Edited April 28, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

11 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said:

How would I know what you already know?

Well, haven't you got any original ideas or theories?

--  Tommy

Edited April 28, 2017 by Thomas Graves

[Cliff Varnell]

1 minute ago, Thomas Graves said:

Well, got any original ideas or theories?

--  Tommy

No.  There are three scenarios all rendered before the assassination of Oswald that nail it.

[Thomas Graves]

Just now, Cliff Varnell said:

No.  There are three scenarios all rendered before the assassination of Oswald that nail it.

ok

[Cliff Varnell]

11 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said:

There are three scenarios all rendered before the assassination of Oswald that nail it.

Here's one such theory -- The Gary Underhill Scenario:

From Larry Hancock's Someone Would Have Talked, pg 496:

<quote on, emphasis added>

[Former CIA employee Gary] Underhill's concern was that he had become aware of a "clique" within the CIA--a clique
dealing with weapons and gun-running and making money. These individuals had Far Eastern connections, narcotics was
mentioned, supposedly the clique was manipulating political intrigues to serve their own ends. Underhill believed
that these individuals had been involved with JFK's murder; he felt that JFK had become aware of their dealings and
was about to move against them in some fashion. He also believed that members of the clique knew that Underhill was
aware of their dealings and that his own life could well be in jeopardy.

<quote off>

A Secret Order, Hank Albarelli, pg: 14

<quote on, emphasis added>

[D]uring WWII George Hunter White and a number of other [Federal Bureau of Narcotics] agents assigned to the Office of Strategic Services (OSS), precursor to the CIA, worked very closely in New York City with Port Security and the Office of Naval Intelligence on what is now commonly called Operation Underworld. This was the top-secret project that involved freeing infamous gangster Charles "Lucky" Luciano from prison in return for his, and the Mafia's, assistance with security at America's ports and the Allied invasion of Italy. All the FBN agents assigned to work on Operation Underworld went on to become covert operatives of the CIA, and would become involved with Projects MK/ULTRA and MK/NAOMI.

<quote off>

From Douglas Valentine's The Strength of the Wolf:

<quote on>

Harvey was so dependent on the FBN and its underworld contacts that he scribbled the words “the Magic Button” beside a reference to the Bureau in his notes.

<quote off>

Joseph Trento, The Secret History of the CIA, pgs 334-5

<quote on>

Who changed the coup into the murder of Diem, Nhu and a Catholic priest accompanying them? To this day, nothing has been found in government archives tying the killings to either John or Robert Kennedy. So how did the tools and talents developed by Bill Harvey for ZR/RIFLE and Operation MONGOOSE get exported to Vietnam? Kennedy immediately ordered (William R.) Corson to find out what had happened and who was responsible. The answer he came up with: “On instructions from Averell Harriman…. The orders that ended in the deaths of Diem and his brother originated with Harriman and were carried out by Henry Cabot Lodge’s own military assistant.”

Having served as ambassador to Moscow and governor of New York, W. Averell Harriman was in the middle of a long public career. In 1960, President-elect Kennedy appointed him ambassador-at-large, to operate “with the full confidence of the president and an intimate knowledge of all aspects of United States policy.” By 1963, according to Corson, Harriman was running “Vietnam without consulting the president or the attorney general.”

The president had begun to suspect that not everyone on his national security team was loyal. As Corson put it, “Kenny O’Donnell (JFK’s appointments secretary) was convinced that McGeorge Bundy, the national security advisor, was taking orders from Ambassador Averell Harriman and not the president. He was especially worried about Michael Forrestal, a young man on the White House staff who handled liaison on Vietnam with Harriman.”

At the heart of the murders was the sudden and strange recall of Sagon Station Chief Jocko Richardson and his replacement by a no-name team barely known to history. The key member was a Special Operations Army officer, John Michael Dunn, who took his orders, not from the normal CIA hierarchy but from Harriman and Forrestal.

According to Corson, “John Michael Dunn was known to be in touch with the coup plotters,” although Dunn’s role has never been made public. Corson believes that Richardson was removed so that Dunn, assigned to Ambassador Lodge for “special operations,” could act without hindrance.

<quote off>

Was Averell Harriman's finger on Harvey's Magic Button?

Edited April 28, 2017 by Cliff Varnell

[Paul Trejo]

21 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

 I should stop scrutinizing her statement under oath to the Warren Commission? 

Two pieces of furniture, one was a dining table and one was a desk secretary. 

Chris,

Keep scrutinizing Ruth Paine's statements under oath to the Warren Commission.

And please recognize that we can have two pieces of furniture -- a desk and a table -- and in passing call them both, "tables".

It's done quite a lot in English usage.  Two objects do not necessarily entail only two names.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited April 28, 2017 by Paul Trejo