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George Sawtelle

Proof CIA did not plan or execute the JFK assassination

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Ron E

Roselli was in a very awkward and dangerous position. If he told the CIA what he knew his mafia associates would be arrested before the assassination attempt. To keep faith with the CIA Roselli tried to stop it the best way he knew how and that was to go directly to Nicoletti. If he didn't show in Dealey Plaza on the day of the assassination the mafia would have gunned him down asap.

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Ron E

More information that Files is telling the truth,

About half way through his interview with Marrs Files says how Roselli received the fake secret service badges from Ruby at a pancake house in Ft Worth. Recall that a man seen behind the picket fence was asked by a policeman to identify himself and he showed the policeman a secret service badge. The badges received by Roselli were probably for Nicoletti and his team.

Files says that Nicoletti gave him some items before he was killed. One of the items he gave him was a secret service badge. Files mentions the badges half way through the interview and at the end of the same interview he mentions the badge that Nicoletti gave him. It would be impossible for Files to think that fast and mention the two occurences in the same interview ... Files discusses many issues between the mention of the badges ... but for this to be Files's attempt to verify his account is quite a stretch.

The badge ties Nicoletti to Dealey Plaza and it also ties Files to Nicoletti the day of the assassination.   

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George,

You don't need to keep addressing me on James Files, since I have no interest in him at all. 

 

Edited by Ron Ecker

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Ron E

You asked a question, I just tried to answer it. Maybe you didn't really want an answer or you don't understand.

The answer must involve Roselli and Files, since it was Files who said it was Roselli who tried to get Nicoletti to call off the assassination. 

In my last 3-4 post on Files, I tried to show you that Files was speaking the truth about what he knows, hoping what he said about Roselli would ring true to you. Apparently your mind is closed but that's okay you are entitled to your opinion.

Edited by George Sawtelle

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George, I know something about myself. I know that I am credulous. I find Files to be believable. But knowing that I am credulous, I do not try to argue his case. I have to look to researchers and respected authors and see what they make of Files. If I don't do that I know that I will look like a fool and tax the patience of true researchers who suffer my presence here. 

If I felt very strongly about Files story, I would perhaps do my own research, after looking into what research has already been done, and then I would make my case. If I only came-out using Files words, and a bit of logical arguendo to make my case, I know that I would look like a fool.

Speculation has it's place but must be presented as such. Claiming speculation as truth without presenting any research and facts just makes one look foolish, IMO.

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I'm sure Files was involved in the underworld and knew people, but as far as being a shooter, I'm very skeptical. I would tend to think that if he were a shooter, and had involvement and knowledge, he wouldn't have lived very long.

That being said, regarding the secret service id's, if someone knows otherwise, I understood that at that time in '63, the secret service id's were manufactured by a division in the CIA. 

Edited by Roger DeLaria

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Michael

I know you are only trying to help, so thanks but I don't need it. I don't let anyone do my thinking for me. If someone says something and it appears to be logical I might go with it .Letting someone do the thinking for you will get you into situations that will be difficult from which to extricate.

A good example is the Eaglesham article on Files using a drawing from Remington, drawing No. 7. Take the time and go back and read that thread. I smashed Eaglesham's conclusion to bits. Why, because I don't let someone do the thinking for me.

With regard to Files, research on him involves listening to tapes. There really isn't much else. But if you or anyone has other info on Files please provide it. I'm open to something is out there on Files that may prove me all wet.

I didn't speculate about the abort team. Plumlee mentions it and Files backs him up.

I didn't speculate about Roselli, he was part of an assassination team and part of the abort team.

I didn't speculate about Roselli going to Nicoletti and asking him to abort the assassination because that came from Files and I believe him. 

I didn't speculate about Roselli not telling the CIA about Nicoletti's hit team because it's common sense that he would not want to get his friends arrested, not to mention himself killed.

I didn't speculate about the badges because that came from Files and I believe him. The badges are a very importqant clue to Files being in Dealey Plaza.

I can go on and on but I think you understand. Folks on this forum don't read my posts on Files. They see the word Files and it turns them off and they stop reading. They have this pre conceived idea that Files is not credible. Where does this idea come from I don't know. It may come from researchers who don't believe Files for various reasons and the rest let the researchers do the thinking for them.

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Roger

Chauncy Holt was a master forger who worked for the Lansky syndicate. He provided the badges.

BTW Holt was one of the tramps taken off a boxcar in the RR yard behind the TSBD the day of the assassination. So we know he was there.

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10 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

They have this pre conceived idea that Files is not credible. Where does this idea come from I don't know.

I can tell you where the idea comes from as far as I'm concerned. I simply don't believe, after all the planning that had to go into the assassination, including months of sheep-dipping Oswald, that the shooter of JFK was a last-minute decision made by some squabbling gangsters. 

 

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23 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

...........

A good example is the Eaglesham article on Files using a drawing from Remington, drawing No. 7. Take the time and go back and read that thread. I smashed Eaglesham's conclusion to bits. Why, because I don't let someone do the thinking for me.

..............

Eaglesham's article

http://www.manuscriptservice.com/Headstamp/

Edited by Michael Clark

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15 minutes ago, Ron Ecker said:

I can tell you where the idea comes from as far as I'm concerned. I simply don't believe, after all the planning that had to go into the assassination, including months of sheep-dipping Oswald, that the shooter of JFK was a last-minute decision made by some squabbling gangsters. 

 

That and the pronunciation of "Lay-oceans" as "Lay-o-tins."

He could have got that stuff about the badges out of books.

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Ron E

I provided my reasoning for Files being a last minute addition to the assassination. Apparently you saw the word Files and you stopped reading.

BTW Files is the only shooter who didn't get a secret service badge. This could be because he was a last minute replacement or by design of the plotters. I choose to believe it was by design of the plotters.

I believe Files was a secondary patsy. If Oswald had escaped Dallas, a possiblity the plotters took into account IMO, they had Files to serve as a patsy in case one was needed immediately. The plotters wanted to capture someone asap to avoid riots in the streets.

The plotters always had a alternative to the plan. They ran the assassination that way.

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3 hours ago, George Sawtelle said:

Apparently you saw the word Files and you stopped reading.

 

I didn't stop reading. I simply had nothing to say till you kept addressing your posts to me.

 

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Ron E

Well you seemed to want an answer about why the CIA didn't do what they could have done stopping the assassination because you mentioned it in at least two of your posts.  

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7 minutes ago, George Sawtelle said:

Ron E

Well you seemed to want an answer about why the CIA didn't do what they could have done stopping the assassination because you mentioned it in at least two of your posts.  

I still want an answer. Can't you understand that I don't agree with yours?

 

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