Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) Just now, Chris Newton said: I believe that Angleton was a key figure in the plot to to assassinate JFK and set up Oswald as the fall guy. See John Newman's Oswald and the CIA. I am therefore taking that one step further and speculating that "what if" Angleton, himself was the "mole" that Tennent Bagely was convinced was still operating undiscovered at the highest levels of the CIA. Yes? And? -- Tommy PS What does Newman make of the fact that Duran and Azcue collectively described the guy who did or did not visit the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63 in such a way as to point a finger at KGB officer Nikolai Leonov? Edited May 9, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: And? well... thinking and typing at the same time here... If Angleton was a double agent... ... and he was involved in planning the assassination and recruiting co-conspirators, one could make the argument that the KGB was involved in the plot. ... it might explain why he wasn't able to "catch" his high echelon mole despite the hunt. ... a motive could emerge that would be consistent with current KGB objectives.. sewing discord and mistrust about US institutions and government among the general populace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) On 5/9/2017 at 0:20 PM, Chris Newton said: well... thinking and typing at the same time here... If Angleton was a double agent... ... and he was involved in planning the assassination and recruiting co-conspirators, one could make the argument that the KGB was involved in the plot. ... it might explain why he wasn't able to "catch" his high echelon mole despite the hunt. ... a motive could emerge that would be consistent with current KGB objectives.. sewing discord and mistrust about US institutions and government among the general populace. Okay. Hmm. Did Angleton do any real damage to the KGB or GRU after 1953 or so? -- Tommy Edited May 10, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 per his wikipedia page: Quote In time, Angleton's zeal and paranoia came to be regarded as counter-productive, if not destructive, for the CIA. In the wake of his departure, counter-intelligence efforts were undertaken with far less enthusiasm. Some believe this overcompensation responsible for oversights which allowed Aldrich Ames, Robert Hanssen and many others to compromise the CIA, the FBI and other agencies long after Angleton's resignation. Although the American intelligence community quickly bounced back from the embarrassments of the Church Committee, it found itself uncharacteristically incapable of policing itself after Angleton's departure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Did Angleton, say after 1953 or so, do any real damage to the CIA (Freudian slip, there) KGB or GRU? No. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: per his wikipedia page: Did you read the 37-page summary by Bagley I sent you? http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/pdf/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 Does the name Leonard McCoy ring a bell? Edited May 9, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 4 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: No. How do you know? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 24 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: PS What does Newman make of the fact that Duran and Azcue collectively described the guy who did or did not visit the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63 in such a way as to point a finger at KGB officer Nikolai Leonov? “According to the transcript of the interrogation, Duran told the story about Oswald's visits on Friday, September 27, and stated flatly, "he never called again."" Her statement undermined the Saturday transcript wherein she and Oswald were supposed to have placed a call to the Soviet Consulate. Her statement was not repeated in the Warren Report, which stated that after the Friday altercation, "Oswald contacted the Russian and Cuban Embassies again during his stay in Mexico.' 14' The evidence given for this false statement in the Warren Report is "confidential information.” Excerpt From: John Newman. “Oswald and the CIA: The Documented Truth About the Unknown Relationship Between the U.S. Government and the Alleged Killer of JFK.” Newman has a whole chapter on this and believes that the CIA lied to the WC concerning Duran and Azcue's statements and interogation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 3 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: How do you know? I don't, just my opinion. Yes, I read Bagely's summary that you sent me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 11 minutes ago, Chris Newton said: I don't, just my opinion. Yes, I read Bagely's summary that you sent me. Just your opinion, huh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 1 hour ago, Chris Newton said: “According to the transcript of the interrogation, Duran told the story about Oswald's visits on Friday, September 27, and stated flatly, "he never called again."" Her statement undermined the Saturday transcript wherein she and Oswald were supposed to have placed a call to the Soviet Consulate. Her statement was not repeated in the Warren Report, which stated that after the Friday altercation, "Oswald contacted the Russian and Cuban Embassies again during his stay in Mexico.' 14' The evidence given for this false statement in the Warren Report is "confidential information.” Excerpt From: John Newman. “Oswald and the CIA: The Documented Truth About the Unknown Relationship Between the U.S. Government and the Alleged Killer of JFK.” Newman has a whole chapter on this and believes that the CIA lied to the WC concerning Duran and Azcue's statements and interogation Chris, What does this have to do with my question? -- "What does Newman make of the fact that Duran and Azcue collectively described the guy who did or did not visit the Cuban Consulate on 9/27/63 in such a way as to point a finger at KGB officer Nikolai Leonov?" -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 5 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: What does this have to do with my question? It doesn't. Sorry. I think Newman addresses it this way, (I'm paraphrasing), "why was her testimony about the description ignored by the WC?". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 9, 2017 Author Share Posted May 9, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, Chris Newton said: It doesn't. Sorry. I think Newman addresses it this way, (I'm paraphrasing), "why was her testimony about the description ignored by the WC?". Chris, It indicates that the CIA and the Warren Commission were in cahoots, huh? -- Tommy Edited May 10, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chris Newton Posted May 10, 2017 Share Posted May 10, 2017 10 hours ago, Thomas Graves said: It indicates that the CIA and the Warren Commission were in cahoots, huh? Dulles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted May 10, 2017 Author Share Posted May 10, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Chris Newton said: Dulles. Chris, So, Dulles / Angleton told the Mexican Police to extract a description-of-Oswald statement out of Duran which would point the finger at KGB officer Nikolai Leonov. Azcue, who wasn't tortured by the Mexican Police but, according to Trejo, was shaking in his boots, eventually (At what point -- in 1978 or was it much earlier? I'll have to ask Brancato, I guess.) fleshed-out the Leonov description. Then Dulles / Angleton(?) had Duran's "short, blond-haired, blue or green eyes" statement excluded from the Warren Commission Report. Have I got that right so far? -- Tommy Edited May 10, 2017 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Please sign in to comment
You will be able to leave a comment after signing in
Sign In Now