Who was the nurse collecting the TRUE bullet falling from Connally's thigh?

[Robert Harris]

3 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

But we know now that Nolan definitely DID sign a receipt. Gary Murr found it. You want to believe it's yet another piece of "bogus" evidence connected with this case. You are free to go down that path if you desire, but no reasonable person is likely to think that the FBI or DPD faked a document with the handwriting of three different people on it. (And Bobby Nolan's distinct "B" is telling me a lot, even if it tells you nothing.)

Face it, Robert Harris, your theory is wrong. Audrey Bell DID give an envelope to Bobby Nolan, and that envelope contained only FRAGMENTS of a bullet, not a whole bullet. And there's now TWO documents that corroborate that event---the hospital memorandum and CE2003.

David, how do I carry on a discussion with you without swearing and saying things that I'm sure are not permitted here?

You just keep blurting out things you couldn't prove to save your life. It gets really boring.

Your side of this argument bears the burden of validating the evidence you present. So far, no one has even tried to verify this alleged receipt. What HAS been proven however, is that it contradicts a small army of highly reliable witnesses, including the two who supposedly signed it. And the officer it was allegedly sent to, never put it into evidence - probably because it was fabricated long after 11/22/63.

Over in McAdams newsgroup I coined a phrase for the nutters, which even some of them have started using. "Blurtation" - something someone just blurts out with no attempt to prove or support it with evidence.  Blurtations are all you do, David. You seem to think that if you blurt it out enough times it will eventually come true.

I'll be happy to accept this thing, if somebody can just prove it is valid.

Edited August 17, 2017 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

5 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Bob:

 

You never answered Alberto's entering question:  Who do you think the nurse was?

He maps out three suspects and asks if you talked to any of them.

 

I have a suspect, but she has not been very talkative and I cannot prove she was the one, so at least for now, I'd rather not elaborate. There are several other nurses who are candidates as well, but most nurses from '63 are either dead or have changed their names, making them impossible to find.

I saw Alberto's post, but I really don't like to guess or speculate. I just wish I had started doing this in the sixties.

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, Robert Harris said:

You just keep blurting out things you couldn't prove to save your life.

 

 

Quote

And the officer it was allegedly sent to never put it into evidence...

Why do you keep saying this? It was found in the NATIONAL ARCHIVES by Gary Murr, among lots of other "JFK evidence". Doesn't that count as being "put into evidence"??

 

Edited August 17, 2017 by David Von Pein

[James DiEugenio]

Davey,

There is something called a chain of evidence in record keeping.

What Bob is saying is that this record  did not follow that chain.

Now, there are other such pieces of paper in this case that have similar problems and most logical people now believe they entered the record after the fact and therefore we do not  consider them valid. 

[David Von Pein]

1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said:

What Bob is saying is that this record did not follow that chain.

Bob doesn't have the slightest idea what kind of "chain" that document followed. He just has a desire to call it a fake document---and that's because he's got a pet theory to push. And if that document is NOT a fake, then Bob's decades-long "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Bobby Nolan" theory is toast. And I know Bob Harris doesn't like that idea at all.

Edited August 17, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Robert Harris]

10 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Bob doesn't have the slightest idea what kind of "chain" that document followed. He just has a desire to call it a fake document---and that's because he's got a pet theory to push. And if that document is NOT a fake, then Bob's decades-long "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Bobby Nolan" theory is toast. And I know Bob Harris doesn't like that idea at all.

It doesn't help you to lie about what I say and why I say it, David.

If this was a valid receipt it would have been entered into evidence. That would be its only conceivable purpose.

If it was valid, Audrey Bell would have described multiple fragments on that receipt, not one.

And she would have told the HSCA and ARRB that she gave them to a Texas Ranger, as is written on this "receipt".

If it was valid, officer Nolan would have told us the nurse he encountered said she had "fragments" taken during surgery, not a whole bullet from a stretcher.

If it was valid DA Wade would have said the same thing. And he would never have seen her holding a bullet in her hand. 

If it was valid, Stinson would have told Ramparts magazine that fragments were taken from Connally during surgery, not a whole bullet.

If it was valid, Connally would never have said a nurse recovered the bullet that wounded him.

And "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Bobby Nolan" is not Robert Harris's theory. It is Audrey Bell's sworn testimony. 

If that's not enough David, there are plenty of other very serious discrepancies we can talk about. But it does nothing for your credibility to pretend that this is all about my being closed minded. Prove that this is legitimate and I will agree with you, heart and soul. But so far, the evidence is overwhelmingly against you.

 

 

[Robert Harris]

14 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

 

 

Why do you keep saying this? It was found in the NATIONAL ARCHIVES by Gary Murr, among lots of other "JFK evidence". Doesn't that count as being "put into evidence"??

 

Being in a box, buried out of sight for decades does not count as being put into evidence.

If it had been put into evidence it would have been listed in the DPD's evidence archives after it was submitted by Lt. Alexander. But nothing even remotely similar to that, is in the files. Do what I did and check it out yourself, David. You can start with box #1

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm

[David Von Pein]

11 hours ago, Robert Harris said:

Being in a box buried out of sight for decades does not count as being put into evidence.

~heavy sigh~

It was found in the National Archives files. And it's got the signatures of Bell and Nolan on it. That's not good at all for your theory....especially since we've got the DPD inventory list in CE2003 to corroborate the hospital memo that you think is "bogus".

When putting those two CORROBORATING documents together, we can safely label Bob Harris' "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Officer Bobby Nolan" theory with this word ---- DEBUNKED!

Edited August 18, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Robert Harris]

6 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

~heavy sigh~

It was found in the National Archives files. And it's got the signatures of Bell and Nolan on it. That's not good at all for your theory....especially since we've got the DPD inventory list in CE2003 to corroborate the hospital memo that you think is "bogus".

When putting those two CORROBORATING documents together, we can safely label Bob Harris' "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Officer Bobby Nolan" theory with this word ---- DEBUNKED!

How many times do I have to ask if you have verified those signatures, before you admit that you haven't even tried?

And why do you evade the overwhelming evidence which contradicts your "evidence" which was never even entered into evidence?

And here's a few more questions for you to evade.

Why is it that Bell never mentioned her encounter with DA Wade?

Why didn't Nolan ever mention signing a receipt?

How do you explain the doodling and partial erasures on the original CE-842?

Why was the information section empty on the envelope that Nolan received?

Why didn't "Bell" make him initial it before he took it to the DPD?

Why didn't Bell initial it as she was required to do and testified under oath that she did?

 

 

Edited August 18, 2017 by Robert Harris

[Robert Harris]

And BTW, David. Why have you evaded all of this?

If this was a valid receipt it would have been entered into evidence. That would be its only conceivable purpose.

If it was valid, Audrey Bell would have described multiple fragments on that receipt, not one.

And she would have told the HSCA and ARRB that she gave them to a Texas Ranger, as is written on this "receipt".

If it was valid, officer Nolan would have told us the nurse he encountered said she had "fragments" taken during surgery, not a whole bullet from a stretcher.

If it was valid DA Wade would have said the same thing. And he would never have seen her holding a bullet in her hand. 

If it was valid, Stinson would have told Ramparts magazine that fragments were taken from Connally during surgery, not a whole bullet.

If it was valid, Connally would never have said a nurse recovered the bullet that wounded him.

And "Audrey Bell Never Gave Anything To Bobby Nolan" is not Robert Harris's theory. It is Audrey Bell's sworn testimony. 

[Robert Harris]

David, it is a FACT that Lt. Alexander never put this thing into evidence. If he had it would have been listed in the DPD archives. Have you searched yet? I gave you a link.

http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box1.htm

To look at the other boxes, just change "box1" to box2, box3, etc.

I know that's more work than just blurting out lies, but it will be easier if you search using CTRL-f then "receipt" or Bell or Alexander. You can do a pretty thorough search that way in an hour or so.

 

[David Von Pein]

2 hours ago, Robert Harris said:

David, it is a FACT that Lt. Alexander never put this thing into evidence. If he had it would have been listed in the DPD archives. Have you searched yet? I gave you a link.

Yes, I went directly to the Dallas Municipal Archives website several days ago (before you ever provided a link) and searched all the boxes. I searched the Mary Ferrell site as well. I couldn't find a thing. But the FACT remains that Gary Murr (bless him) dug up that hospital memo (dated "Nov. 22, 1963" in what appears to be Audrey Bell's own writing) in the NATIONAL ARCHIVES. It was at NARA among a lot of other JFK "evidence" and documents. And despite your pretending to know who handled that document (and when), you really have no idea who saw that memo or why it was located where Gary Murr found it at NARA in the 1990s. And, of course, I don't have any answers to those Who?, When?, or Why? questions either. So you and I are in the same boat as far as that matter goes.

But just look at the B in Bob Nolan in the memo/receipt. And then compare it to Nolan's "BMN" initials in CE842....

 

----

 

But, Bob Harris, even after you admit that the Bs are identical in writing style (and the Ns are very close too), are you the type of conspiracy believer who agrees with many other CTers here at the Edu. Forum, who have said to me: Well, Dave, we all know it's very easy to forge somebody else's signature? If you do hold such an opinion, Bob (and I'm not saying you do; I'm just speculating that you MIGHT hold such a view), then what difference would it make at all if I were to "verify" Nolan's and Bell's signatures on the hospital memo? Many CTers totally disregard and toss in the toilet the testimony of the several "experts" who have stated that all the rifle and revolver documents were definitely written BY LEE OSWALD. And I imagine those same CTers would also not accept the same determination regarding the Bell & Nolan writing on the hospital receipt (had there been such an "expert" determination).

 

Edited August 19, 2017 by David Von Pein

[Robert Harris]

5 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

Yes, I went directly to the Dallas Municipal Archives website several days ago (before you ever provided a link) and searched all the boxes. I searched the Mary Ferrell site as well. I couldn't find a thing. But the FACT remains that Gary Murr (bless him) dug up that hospital memo (dated "Nov. 22, 1963" in what appears to be Audrey Bell's own writing) in the NATIONAL ARCHIVES. It was at NARA among a lot of other JFK "evidence" and documents. And despite your pretending to know who handled that document (and when), you really have no idea who saw that memo or why it was located where Gary Murr found it at NARA in the 1990s. And, of course, I don't have any answers to those Who?, When?, or Why? questions either. So you and I are in the same boat as far as that matter goes.

But just look at the B in Bob Nolan in the memo/receipt. And then compare it to Nolan's "BMN" initials in CE842....

 

----

 

But, Bob Harris, even after you admit that the Bs are identical in writing style (and the Ns are very close too), are you the type of conspiracy believer who agrees with many other CTers here at the Edu. Forum, who have said to me: Well, Dave, we all know it's very easy to forge somebody else's signature? If you do hold such an opinion, Bob (and I'm not saying you do; I'm just speculating that you MIGHT hold such a view), then what difference would it make at all if I were to "verify" Nolan's and Bell's signatures on the hospital memo? Many CTers totally disregard and toss in the toilet the testimony of the several "experts" who have stated that all the rifle and revolver documents were definitely written BY LEE OSWALD. And I imagine those same CTers would also not accept the same determination regarding the Bell & Nolan writing on the hospital receipt (had there been such an "expert" determination).

 

David, you need to do three things.

Think, think and then think.

If someone fabricated this thing, would they attempt to forge those signatures? Give me YOUR opinion.

We already know that the info section of CE-842 was forged because when Nolan got it, there was nothing there.

And there are other ways to verify this than via the signatures. A copy of this thing in the DPD archives would be very supportive, or a verification from Lt. Alexander, that he received it. Or anything that confirms that it went to Alexander. But Bell was very specific that she gave her receipt to her supervisor, Jack Price. From the ARRB report:

"She said she personally delivered the original of this receipt to Parkland Hospital Administrator Jack Price."

Here's the thing, David. If we were just looking at a couple of discrepancies, I might write it off to bad memory, but there are waay too many. Almost EVERYTHING from your side of the argument contradicts the verified evidence and witness statements.

Look at all the lies in the FBI reports, claiming that Nolan, Stinson and Bell all described one fragment. Nolan and Stinson described a whole bullet, which matches Wade and Connally and Bell reported "4 or 5" fragments. There are TOO MANY witnesses who were misquoted  and they were much too consistent with one another, to call it brain farts.

Bell would never have signed a receipt describing ONE fragment and Nolan would never have signed a receipt claiming it was not a whole bullet.

Interesting, isn't it that she went to all this trouble to write up a receipt but failed to initial CE-842, as she was required to do and swore that she did??

I don't reject this item because I don't want "my theory" to be disrupted. I reject it because the evidence contradicts almost everything related to it.

 

 

[Keyvan Shahrdar]

Does anybody know if

1. Connally had his clothes on or off at the time when he was rolled from the stretcher to the operating table.

2. Was Connally's clothes taken off or cut out from his body, similar to what they did to JFK and most people when they enter a trauma room for an emergency operation.

3. It seems strange that his clothing was sent to the dry cleaners.