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Chris Newton

Where's Ruth's couch?

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43 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

CD 497 -- FBI Booklet -- "Paine & Randle Homes"....

 

Thanks David.

 

The circled numbers on the floorplan (CE 430) correspond to the location, indoor and outdoor, where the photos were taken and the direction the photographer was facing.

 

In the photo below, if the backdoor is 36" x 80", then how long is the length of the back wall?

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=5&tab=page

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50 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

CD 497 -- FBI Booklet -- "Paine & Randle Homes"....

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=10

Thank you David for the Second picture in the link you provided.  I've never seen it before.  The one of the garage.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page

When were they taken?  On the lower right behind the tires, beneath the Alpha Bits box it looks like two two drawer metal file cabinets.  Not the ones mentioned by DPD officer (?- correct me on name?) Buddy Wathers in his report but never mentioned again anywhere? 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Ron Bulman said:

I stepped from the kitchen "doorway' in question once and shot "Oswald " in the living room.

That's a great story Ron!

It's a pretty small house isn't it?

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22 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

That's a great story Ron!

It's a pretty small house isn't it?

Yes it is, for two families even of just the women and kids with LHO on occasion.  If I recall right Tony had a couch on the east wall and love seat on the north wall with 3-4 kitchen/desk/folding chairs by the bay window.  It was not quite crowded but cozy, informal in the living room.

BTW, I did go in the garage once just out of curiosity to see where the rifle was supposedly hidden.  It was basically empty as opposed to the picture linked above somewhere by David.  I also asked Tony if he'd been up in the attic to see if any previous tenants might have left anything behind.  He says he'd stuck his head through the opening and seen nothing.  In hindsight I wish I'd asked to go up there and at least look under the insulation  near the opening, for what I don't know.  99.9% chance I'd have found nothing.  

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In addition to Chris's assertion of perjury by Ruth Paine 3x regarding the "couch secretary" and Oswald's letter the thread has brought up another question (actually two) for me.

Based on this picture link provided by David Von Pein via the marry Ferrell Foundation.

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=10897#relPageId=11&tab=page

1) Are those file cabinets on the lower right portion of the picture? Maybe like the ones mentioned by One DPD officer but no one else and never inventoried in the garage contents.  I can't tell you where at the moment but I've read the officer looked in the files and there were at least some on Cubans.  Two such file cabinets were not something Oswald would have been able to indiscriminately lug around from Fort Worth to Dallas to New Orleans to Dallas again.  These were the Paine's files.  Of what who can be sure.  Probably old travel brochures.

2)  The blanket the rifle was supposedly wrapped  in was on the ground, right?  Where might it have lain?  Not a lot of room there.  Was it stacked on or hidden in the other junk there and the blanket dropped on it's retrieval?  With the garage door shut Lee wouldn't have much room to wrap the curtain rods in the paper he brought home from work.

 

 http://alt.assassination.jfk.narkive.com/mczSMAgh/what-buddy-walthers-found

 Thanks to old John McAdams for Walthers WC testimony.  Where ya been budd?

 http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/walthers.htm   

Edited by Ron Bulman

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FYI / FWIW....

In 1964, David Wolper's film crew filmed inside Ruth Paine's house while making the film "Four Days In November", including a scene filmed in the garage (which I've extracted from the film in my 2014 blog post below). It's a rather chilling reconstruction too, in that the filmmakers created this realistic replica of the blanket that assassin Lee Harvey Oswald's rifle was wrapped in as it was being stored in Mrs. Paine's garage for a couple of months prior to the assassination.

The two pictures below depict Ruth Paine's garage. The photo on the left comes from the "Four Days" re-creation showing the simulated "Oswald rifle/blanket" on the floor; while the image on the right was taken by the FBI as part of a booklet entitled "Paine And Randle Homes", which can be found in Warren Commission Document No. 497.

Click the pictures for a larger view:

Screen-Capture-From-The-1964-David-Wolper-Movie-Four-Days-In-November-01.png Ruth-Paine-Garage.jpg

Re-created Movie Scenes:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2014/11/four-days-in-november-re-created-scenes.html

Also see:

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2013/04/dvp-vs-dieugenio-part-87.html#File-Cabinets

Edited by David Von Pein

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2 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

"couch secretary"

 

Hey Ron, did I write "couch secretary" somewhere? If so, I apologize because the furniture swapping/arrangement is confusing enough without me adding more elements. There were two "desk secretary's" in the home in Oct.-Nov.1963. A large one was in the kitchen/dining area along the south wall, just west of the garage door. This is visible in one of the WC photographs. The FBI noted in one of their 302's that this was where Ruth stored her tape and wrapping supplies. The other "desk secretary" is described as the "little desk secretary" in Ruth Paine's testimony and was located on the north wall of the living room until it was moved by Lee and Michael on Sunday, November 11th.

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17 hours ago, Chris Newton said:

 

Hey Ron, did I write "couch secretary" somewhere? If so, I apologize because the furniture swapping/arrangement is confusing enough without me adding more elements. There were two "desk secretary's" in the home in Oct.-Nov.1963. A large one was in the kitchen/dining area along the south wall, just west of the garage door. This is visible in one of the WC photographs. The FBI noted in one of their 302's that this was where Ruth stored her tape and wrapping supplies. The other "desk secretary" is described as the "little desk secretary" in Ruth Paine's testimony and was located on the north wall of the living room until it was moved by Lee and Michael on Sunday, November 11th.

Couch secretary is a mistake on my part.  The thread is about Ruth's couch, I inadvertently combined it with the "desk" secretary.  I should have caught that myself, poor proofreading on my part.  Ruth's "finding" the rough draft of Oswald's letter and copying of it could support the possibility that they were monitoring Lee and Marina for somebody.  Her tap dancing, or perjury about the incident is incriminating.  The phone tap is further support.  Those file cabinets give reason for question also.

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22 hours ago, Ron Bulman said:

In addition to Chris's assertion of perjury by Ruth Paine 3x regarding the "couch secretary" and Oswald's letter the thread has brought up another question (actually two) for me.

It's actually more than "3x." total. The couch location comes into question again in another part of the testimony regarding when Dallas Police first arrived at the Paine home in the afternoon of Nov. 22. It seems the "new" alleged location of the couch raised questions about what could be seen out the large picture window by Marina and Ruth as they watched TV. Ironically, their FBI statements and testimony would have made more sense if the couch was where I suspect it was, on the east wall. The re-alignment of the doorways may have been an attempt to suggest that "someone" could  sneak out the back unobserved from the front. That person would then have to climb a fence and cross the drainage ditch to sneak over and copy a license plate number in front of the neighbor's residence (and return), and do this in true "ninja mode", unobserved by two FBI Agents standing at the open front door.

 

 

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Chris could  you  clarify  this  thread please? All you  did  was post a picture and then yes or no. Thanks.

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14 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Chris could  you  clarify  this  thread please?

Ruth Paine has asserted in her testimony before the Warren Commission that...

Oswald's rough draft of the alleged Soviet Embassy letter was noticed by her on the "little desk secretary" in the living room sometime on Saturday Nov. 10th.

The letter remained there untouched until Sunday morning when Ruth Paine read the letter and then copied it.

Eventually, Sunday evening she asked her husband, Michael, and Lee Oswald to move the "little desk secretary" to the east wall and the living room couch to the north wall, swapping their locations in the living room.

Moments prior to the furniture re-arranging, Ruth Paine removed Oswald's alleged rough draft from the top of the "little desk secretary" and placed it inside the "little desk secretary", hiding it from view.

She then kept the rough draft allegedly written by LHO until 11/22/63 when she gave it to FBI Agent Hosty.

She then, in a followup interview by FBI Agent Odum, supplied that Agent with her handwritten copy.

 

My assertion is that the "little desk secretary" event is an invention designed to coverup the real story about the provenance of Oswald's alleged rough draft.

The photograph taken on 11/23/63 shows the couch and "little desk secretary" in an arrangement that is impossible on that date if Ruth Paine's story is true.

 

Edited by Chris Newton
grammar nazis

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OK thank you very interesting, Chris.  I was just looking for the handwritten one by LHO and her copied version.  I can't seem to find it on MF - would you happen to know where they are online and posting a link to them here please?

BTW - why do they always mention she's a Quaker?  It seems like everywhere you look it's mentioned.  I came across a site about her papers on Swarthmore and the very first sentence is, "Ruth is a Quaker..." Can you imagine if she was Jewish and everywhere you'd go, it'd say, "Ruth, a Jew....?"

Personally, I've always felt it was too good to be true for her to be there and to control the situation with Oswald and his wife, along with George DeM and others.

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20 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

"Ruth is a Quaker..."

IDK. Nixon was a Quaker.

Ruth's handwritten copy is not in the National Archives nor was it ever a WC exhibit.

We have a thread right here on the Kostin/Embassy Letter:

 

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