Cliff Varnell Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 14 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Jeff, With all due respect, that's so very nice of you. Bear in mind, however, that ANY of the KGB's and GRU's "Main Adversary" countries (i.e., U.S. and Britain) can reasonably be expected to succumb to the cumulative effects of 90-plus years of active measures counterintelligence operations, artfully interwoven with 58 years of strategic deception / operational deception ops. Which would have added up to squat in 2016 if the Republicans hadn't scrubbed 7 million voters (mostly Democrats) from the voter rolls -- or if James Comey/FBI hadn't rigged the media coverage against Hillary Clinton.. 14 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: And now for a little lighthearted sarcasm: It's amazing that the Ruskies have somehow overlooked that heavily populated and incredibly rich and productive industrial powerhouse to the north of us known as Canada, and failed to include it on their list of main adversary countries, as well. -- Tommy I find Canadians are less gullible than Yanks. Like that cop said in The Wire -- "Americans are a stupid people by and large. We pretty much believe whatever we're told." (1:53) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) On 2/16/2018 at 8:17 PM, Cliff Varnell said: Which would have added up to squat in 2016 if the Republicans hadn't scrubbed 7 million voters (mostly Democrats) from the voter rolls -- or if James Comey/FBI hadn't rigged the media coverage against Hillary Clinton.. I find Canadians are less gullible than Yanks. Like that cop said in The Wire -- "Americans are a stupid people by and large. We pretty much believe whatever we're told." (1:53) Cliff, It's interesting that a Russian fake Intelligence memo, given to the FBI as a "gift," apparently tricked Republican James Comey into shutting down FBI's investigation of Hillary's e-mails in July 2016, only to have to very-damagingly-to-Hillary re-open said investigation about ten days before the election, based on non-starter "revelations" in the "Weiner Dog" case. Is that the "Comey/FBI's rigging of negative media coverage of Hillary Clinton" you're referring to? Question: Did Comey wittingly "rig" said media coverage against Hillary, or was he tricked by the Ruskies into doing it? https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/james-comey-fake-document-russia-fbi-clinton-email-2017-5#ampshare=http://www.businessinsider.com/james-comey-fake-document-russia-fbi-clinton-email-2017-5 (Warning: Although BUSINESS INSIDER has "High" factual reporting according to mediabiasfactcheck. com, CNN, which it sources in the article, has only "Mixed" factual reporting.) -- Tommy PS How can you say that 90-plus years of Ruskie active measures counterintelligence ops and 58 years of operational deception ops artfully interwoven with same, simultaneously waged against us and our allies "would have added up to squat if (blah blah blah)" IF my contention that that Ruskie fake memo (itself containing "parts" of a fake e-mail) was an example of those kinds of operations, in-and-of itself? Not to mention the fact that the cumulative effects of so many years of said ops (including, imho, the ultimate operational deception op -- The Assassination of JFK), have given rise to so many tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists who, in turn, have influenced so many gullible ... (gulp) ... Americans to believe that the evil, evil, evil CIA dood da deed, and, perhaps even more importantly, encouraged so many eligible ... (gulp) ... American voters to distrust our evil, evil, evil institutions to such an extent that they no longer even ... vote? D'oh Edited February 18, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) On 8/22/2017 at 9:15 AM, Douglas Caddy said: I am posting my legal file on this subject in the JFK Assassination Topic of the Forum because the events described within it initially came about when Roger Stone contacted me in 2012. He requested any information that I might have on LBJ, which I was pleased to provide. In 2013 Stone published his book, The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ, which became a best-seller. In his book Stone credits me as a primary source for information, as is disclosed in the file. Thus, in a roundabout way JFK five decades after his murder is providing from the grave a nexus of how the 2016 presidential election was rigged. Don’t you think he is pleased at doing this? ************************************ DOUGLAS CADDY ATTORNEY-AT-LAW HOUSTON, TEXAS Member, Texas Bar since 1979 and District of Columbia Bar since 1970 MEMORANDUM TO THE LEGAL FILE Subject: Roger Stone, Lyndon LaRouche and Russia influencing the 2016 Presidential election Date: August 22, 2017 This memo to the file brings up to date what has occurred since I sent my letter of December 10, 2016, to FBI Director James Comey and my subsequent letter of June 27, 2017, to Special Counsel Robert Mueller in regard to the above subject. In my letter to FBI Director Comey I stated that “I knew Roger Stone of the Trump presidential campaign forty years ago in Washington. Because of this Harley Schlanger of the LaRouche organization, whom I also knew, earlier this year asked me to arrange a meeting between him and Stone. I agreed to do so. Such a meeting took place in February [2016]. I was not present at the meeting. “It is my impression that as a result of that February meeting the LaRouche organization agreed to use its extensive Russian contacts to open up a back channel for the Trump campaign to communicate directly to Russian intelligence. This ultimately led to Russian intelligence hacking the emails of the Democratic National Committee, which became a major issue in the presidential campaign and continues to do so to this day. Stone may have played a role in Wikileaks being given the hacked emails for distribution to the public. “Harley Schlanger and other LaRouche leaders interviewed Stone on a LaRouche radio program on a number of occasions during the course of the presidential campaign.” With my letter to Director Comey I attached a number of emails that I had received from Schlanger and Stone on this matter. Relevant quotations from some of these follow later in this memo. In addition I sent copies of my letter to Director Comey to President Obama and CIA Director Peter Goss as a safeguard that it would not be deep-sixth. After President Trump fired Director Comey in May 2017, which led to the appointment of Special Counsel Mueller, I wrote Mr. Mueller on June 27, 2017 in part as follows: “On December 10, 2016, I sent the enclosed letter with its email attachments to FBI Director James Comey about the above referenced matter. I never heard back from him and hence I am writing you. My motivation in doing so is because I fear that our democracy was severely endangered by Russian influence in the 2016 presidential election. Alarmingly, this Russian threat is unabated. The continued existence of the United States as a free nation is at stake. “Here is a brief summary of my letter to Director Comey: In January 2016 Harley Schlanger of the LaRouche organization contacted me to request that I set up a meeting for him with Roger Stone of the Trump Campaign. Their meeting was held in Austin, Texas, in February 2016. I was unable to attend but my impression is that as a result of that meeting the LaRouche organization agreed to use its extensive Russian contacts to open up a back channel for the Trump campaign to communicate directly with Russian intelligence. “Since writing my December 10 letter to Director Comey I have uncovered the following information that may corroborate the contents of that letter: “A month before Schlanger contacted me to set up the meeting with Stone, a LaRouche delegation sympathetic to Russia attended the RT anniversary dinner in Moscow in December 2015 where Premier Putin was seated next to General Flynn. For confirmation see the bottom of page 15 and top of page 16 of the famous Christopher Steele British Dossier. Schlanger may have been among those who attended. There are essentially five persons who lead the LaRouche organization today: Lyndon LaRouche (age 94), his wife, Helga, Jeffrey Steinberg, Harley Schlanger and Anton Chaitkin. https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3259984-Trump-Intelligence-Allegations.html “Jeffrey Steinberg participated in an annual Economic Conference in Moscow in March 2016. https://larouchepac.com/20160328/eir-participates-moscow-economic-forum “In November 2016, Roger Stone interviewed Lyndon LaRouche on his radio program. https://larouchepac.com/20161121/lyndon-larouche-radio-interview-roger-stone https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBx6uHA05gg “I am writing you because you possess the investigative power and authority to determine if any of the information provided in this letter and my prior letter to Director Comey merits further investigation. It may or may not. As a private citizen I am in no position to make that determination. However, I believe it is my solemn duty both as a private citizen and an attorney who is a member of the District of Columbia and Texas Bars to call this matter to your attention.” When I sent my letter to Mr. Mueller, I also sent copies of it to Senator Mark Warner of the Senate Intelligence Committee and Congressman Adam Schiff of the House Intelligence Committee. ABOUT LAROUCHE Here is the link to obtain update viewpoints from the LaRouche organization: https://larouchepac.com/updates Three of the brightest and most knowledgeable persons I have ever met are Jeffrey Steinberg, Harley Schanger and Anton Chaikin. However, it is well known that Lyndon LaRouche is the ultimate decider on all policy matters and his word overrides those in the organization whose views may differ. The Houston Chronicle of November 7, 1982, published an article titled, “The man who ‘perfected’ Marx: LaRouche collects money, works at making folks over ‘in my own image.’” The article states that, “former members say LaRouche is omnipotent within the organization.” It further declares that, “According to his 1979 autobiography, The Power of Reason, LaRouche was born into a Quaker family in New Hampshire in 1922 and had only two friends until late in high school. He says the reason for his lack of friends was that his mental capabilities exceeded those of his peers….As a young man, he joined a socialist group where he ‘perfected’ the theories of Marx.’” I find myself in agreement with some of the policies espoused by the LaRouche organization, such as constructing a modern, transnational “silk road” and reform of the U.S. financial system, including Glass-Steagall reinstatement and creation of a national credit institution for infrastructure and manufacturing. Where I vehemently differ with the group is its alleged role in assisting Russia in influencing the 2016 presidential election. This issue is paramount above all others. ABOUT ROGER STONE I first met Roger Stone in 1975 soon after the National Conservative Political Action Committee (NCPAC) was created. Its chairman was Terry Dolan, a really nice guy who questioned the moral leadership of the conservative movement at the time. He was upset that republican Senator Jesse Helms of North Carolina was driving around Washington, D.C. in a convertible with a young blond woman at his side. Charles Black, a key leader in NCPAC, was from North Caroline and was a protégé of Senator Helms, a racist demagogue if there ever was one. Stone was another leader. Paul Manafort was on the scene but not prominent in the organization. I was the organization’s legal counsel. A short story will suffice in my finding out that Stone was a classic sociopath. On one occasion in 1975 Dolan, Stone and I had lunch together in the greater Washington area and had left the restaurant and were walking down the street. We noticed that on the opposite side of the street an elderly woman who suffered from severe curvature of the spine was walking with what appeared to be her two children, a man and a woman in their thirties. The poor woman’s agonizing bent over posture was such that her face was almost parallel with the sidewalk. When Stone saw her he immediately let out a yell of delight and began to walk and prance in the same way as the poor woman was doing. He did so while gesturing towards the trio on the other side of the street so as to attract their attention. I was so embarrassed and shocked at Stone’s gross behavior that I ran into a public garage in an attempt to distant myself from him. About twenty years ago I received a phone call from Fox commentator James Rosen (if my memory is correct) and who asked me what I thought of Stone. I told him about the above disturbing incident. Charles Black, Paul Manafort and Roger Stone went on to form the political lobbying firm of Black, Manafort and Stone and what they all had in common was being sociopaths. Their quest was for power, access and money and the thought of what was best for our country never entered the picture. In a sense I bear some responsibility for their rise to prominence. While an undergraduate at Georgetown University in 1958 I co-founded with a college friend, David Franke, the National Student Committee for the Loyalty Oath. We did this because there was no conservative movement in existence at the time and we thought we could start such a movement using college students. Senator Styles Bridges of New Hampshire brought us national exposure by endorsing our organization in a speech on the floor of the Senate. The following year, 1959, Franke and I founded Youth for Goldwater for Vice President, which was another major step toward building a conservative movement. Here is an account of what happened next from the book by Professor John A. Andrew III, The Other Side of the Sixties: Young Americans for Freedom and the Rise of Conservative Politics, (New Brunswick: Rutgers University Press, 1997), pp. 217-218: “William F. Buckley and Marvin Liebman met Douglas Caddy and David Franke, both of whom attended as representatives of Youth for Goldwater for Vice President. Together, these four men would turn their disappointment in Goldwater’s loss [at the 1960 GOP convention in Chicago that nominated Nixon] into a national conservative youth movement. Impressed by the passion of Caddy and Franke and their attempts to organize conservative youth in the past, including the creation of the Student Committee for the Loyalty Oath in 1958, Buckley and Liebman decided to mentor them. The loss of Goldwater for the Vice Presidential nomination convinced Buckley that young conservatives in the GOP needed to be fostered from the top down. He believed that young conservatives, with his guidance, could change the American political discourse. Consequently, Buckley hired Franke to intern at the National Review and Caddy worked for Liebman in public relations. Their first major task was to organize a national youth group for conservatives funded by Buckley. In September of 1960, on the Buckley family estate in Sharon, Connecticut, over 100 students from 44 different colleges and universities across the country assembled to devise a plan to capitalize on the growing conservatism of American youth and turn it into an organized political movement. The result created the Young Americans for Freedom, officially chartered on September 11, 1960, and the adoption of the Sharon Statement at the conference. In the Sharon statement, YAF articulated its critique of American society and proclaimed, ‘In this time of moral and political crisis, it is the responsibility of the youth of America to affirm certain eternal truths.’” https://www.slideshare.net/ClaireViall/rebels-with-a-causethe-growth-and-appeal-of-the-young-americans-for-freedom-in-the-1960s The founding of YAF in 1960 led to the birth of the modern conservative movement which occurred in the wake of a fantastically successful rally of conservatives at Manhattan Center in New York City in March 1961. So Black and Manafort and Stone, sad to say, are ethically challenged by-products of the modern conservative movement which decades ago was taken over by opportunists and sociopaths. Stone was active in successfully rigging three presidential elections: In Florida in 2000 for G. W. Bush, in Ohio in 2004 for G. W. Bush and in 2016 for Trump. He has utter contempt for honest elections. Rigging is what he does. Prior to the creation of NCPAC in 1975, Stone was active in the Nixon 1972 presidential campaign. http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/nbc-news-exclusive-memo-shows-watergate-prosecutors-had-evidence-nixon-n773581 I was the Original Attorney for the Watergate Seven but did not meet Stone until three years after the Watergate case broke. http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/21500-memoir-on-being-original-attorney-for-the-watergate-seven-by-douglas-caddy/ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jKBlJQNtek Liberals rejoiced with Nixon being forced to resign the presidency but the immediate result was the rise of the radical right with Black, Manafort and Stone being formed as a lobbying/PR firm and the extreme right-wing oligarch Joseph Coors founding the Heritage Foundation, headed by Edwin Feulner, and the Committee for a Free Congress, headed by Paul Weyrich I left Washington, D.C. in 1979 and moved to Texas once I recognized the bizarre and dangerous direction that the conservative movement was coming to embrace. Thus, it came as a surprise three decades later when in 2012 I was contacted by Roger Stone who requested that I supply him with any material in my possession on President Lyndon Johnson. This came about because I had been the attorney for Billie Sol Estes, LBJ’s silent business and political partner, in Billie Sol’s quest in 1984 to obtain a grant of immunity from prosecution from the U.S. Department of Justice in order that he could tell what he knew about LBJ crimes that took place before and during his presidency. Stone’s praise-worthy best-selling book, The Man Who Killed Kennedy: The Case Against LBJ, was published in 2013. https://www.amazon.com/Man-Who-Killed-Kennedy-Against/dp/1629144894/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1503279918&sr=8-1&keywords=the+man+who+killed+kennedy Stone’s book credits me as a primary source of information. For example, on page 214, he writes, “I did have access and the full cooperation of Billie Sol Estes’ personal attorney Douglas Caddy who supplied interviews, source materials and remembrances for this book.” http://home.earthlink.net/~sixthfloor/estes.htm It was because of my contribution of information in 2012 to Stone’s JFK book that when Schlanger asked me in January 2016 to arrange for him to meet Stone I was able to do so. SELECTED RELEVANT EMAILS I provided FBI Director Comey and Special Counsel Mueller with a large number of emails that accompanied my letters to them. Here are excerpts from a few of these: In an email of Feb. 20, 2016, Stone wrote me: “Thanks for connecting me with Harley Schlanger – he is a great guy and shares our goals. I think we hit it off. I have a back channel to Trump and we are fighting the globalists.” In email of May 5, 2016, Schlanger wrote me: “I have continued to work with Roger. He and I have done three radio interviews together, and I have set up several more for him, with my contacts. Obviously, he has played quite a brilliant role in the Trump campaign, outflanking completely the lead-footed GOP establishment. While I find some of what Trump says to be good, I’m still and not sure what a Trump presidency would mean.” In an email of July 25, 2016, to Schlanger, I wrote after the GOP presidential convention: “Well, you picked an exciting time in Germany to find a new home there. On the other hand, the U.S. as you can see from afar, is an exciting place, too, these days as both major parties are melting down. Neither candidate is worth a damn. “After watching Trump's acceptance speech, I realized what a dangerous and hypocritical man he is. He plans to turn domestic and foreign policy over to his VP Pence and spend his time making ‘America Great Again,’ which means acting out his narcissism on steroids. I have lost all respect for Roger Stone and realize my belief that he had changed from his sociopathic past was misplaced. “Roger and his business partner Paul Manafort will undergo minute media and governmental scrutiny in the coming weeks for their past political and business dealings. Manafort is increasingly linked to being a back door to Putin for the Trump campaign. The whole scandal will get radioactive if the Intelligence agencies produce evidence of a tie there.” FINAL THOUGHTS I have no regrets in writing Comey and Mueller even though I have been regularly harassed for so doing by private detectives employed by an unknown person of interest: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/24039-message-to-the-private-detectives-harassing-me/ I had a duty to do so because the on-going investigation is into felonious criminal activity. Here is the definition of Misprision of a Felony, which is applicable in my situation and governs my actions: 18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony § 4. Misprision of felony Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both. (June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 684; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(G), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.) I do not know whether my two letters will lead or have already led to an investigation by Special Counsel Mueller. Only time will tell. However, this entire venture will merit an interesting chapter in my forthcoming autobiography: https://www.amazon.com/Being-There-Eye-Witness-History/dp/1634241142/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1503340695&sr=1-1&keywords=Douglas+Caddy [End] Douglas, Thank you for posting this. 'Tis interesting truly patriotic stuff on your part, indeed, and I suspect that Special Counsel Robert Mueller has paid, or is paying, close attention to it. -- Tommy Edited February 18, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) On 2/16/2018 at 8:34 PM, Thomas Graves said: Cliff, It's interesting that a Russian fake Intelligence memo, given to the FBI as a "gift," apparently tricked Republican James Comey into shutting down FBI's investigation of Hillary's e-mails in July 2016, No, Comey shut down the e-mail investigation because it was a big nothing, a spur off the GOP's Benghazi railroad job. Mother Jones did a great job on the Clinton FBI interview. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/09/14-excerpts-fbis-report-hillary-clintons-email/ <quote on> There’s remarkably little here. If you nonetheless believe that it’s enough to disqualify Hillary from the presidency, that’s fine. I have no quarrel with you. But if the FBI is to be believed, it’s all pretty small beer. <quote off> Quote only to have to very-damagingly-to-Hillary re-open said investigation about ten days before the election, based on non-starter "revelations" in the "Weiner Dog" case. Is that the "Comey/FBI's rigging of negative media coverage of Hillary Clinton" you're referring to? Question: Did Comey wittingly "rig" said media coverage against Hillary, or was he tricked by the Ruskies into doing it? The Russians had nothing directly to do with the Weiner e-mails. That was a right-wing cabal within the New York FBI shop who knew the e-mails were duplicates and sent them urgently to Comey. Did Comey fear a President Clinton might fire him for his July breach of protocol? Perhaps. Quote https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/james-comey-fake-document-russia-fbi-clinton-email-2017-5#ampshare=http://www.businessinsider.com/james-comey-fake-document-russia-fbi-clinton-email-2017-5 (Warning: Although BUSINESS INSIDER has "High" factual reporting according to mediabiasfactcheck. com, CNN, which it sources in the article, has only "Mixed" factual reporting.) -- Tommy PS How can you say that 90-plus years of Ruskie active measures counterintelligence ops and 58 years of operational deception ops artfully interwoven with same, simultaneously waged against us and our allies "would have added up to squat if (blah blah blah)" The only examples you cite in the U.S.A. are the assassination of JFK and rigging of the 2016 election. I don't buy the JFK angle, and I'd argue Putin came in a distant fourth for influence in the 2016 campaign behind GOP voter suppression laws, the Weiner e-mails, and the billions of dollars in free air time for Trump on cable news. Quote IF my contention that that Ruskie fake memo (itself containing "parts" of a fake e-mail) was an example of those kinds of operations, in-and-of itself? I'll grant you the possibility Comey used the Weiner e-mails to thwart someone who'd probably have fired him had she won. Quote Not to mention the fact that the cumulative effects of so many years of said ops (including, imho, the ultimate operational deception op -- The Assassination of JFK), have given rise to so many tinfoil hat conspiracy theorists who, in turn, have influenced so many gullible ... (gulp) ... Americans to believe that the evil, evil, evil CIA dood da deed, Here's all I can say for sure: JFK was shot in the back from behind and in the throat from the front in a military-style ambush. The rest is speculation -- the thing is to entertain speculation that's fact-based. Are you aware that the night of the autopsy, with the body directly in front of them, the prosectors faced the fact that there was a shallow wound in JFK's back that had no point of exit and no bullet? That is a root fact of JFK's murder -- a wound of entrance, no exit, no bullet. The prosectors asked the FBI men if there were such things as bullets that would disintegrate and not show up in the body. That was a legitimate lead. Arguably the best lead in the case. FBI Special Agent James Sibert called the FBI Lab to inquire into the existence of this hi-tech weaponry, and got blown off. Fact is, a CIA project called MKNAOMI had developed a variety of delivery systems for paralytics and toxins that involved blood soluble darts. The Soviets may have also developed such weaponry. Maybe that's not what happened -- maybe the bullet was removed prior to the autopsy. But MKNAOMI would be a logical place to start an investigation, would it not? The Prosector's Scenario certainly isn't deserving of your derision... Quote and, perhaps even more importantly, encouraged so many eligible ... (gulp) ... American voters to distrust our evil, evil, evil institutions to such an extent that they no longer even ... vote? D'oh Snowflakes need to buck up. Edited February 19, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: Comey shut down the Hillary Clinton e-mail investigation because it was a big nothing, a spur off the GOP's Benghazi railroad job. Cliff, I agree that it ended up being a big "nothing burger." But the way it was closed down in July and then reopened about ten days before the election it was, with all the fake news (Russian, as it turns out) going on in social media, very damaging to Hillary Clinton's chances of being elected, wouldn't you agree? https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-a-dubious-russian-document-influenced-the-fbis-handling-of-the-clinton-probe/2017/05/24/f375c07c-3a95-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.22e4f756f91c -- Tommy PS I voted for her. Is that "politically acceptable" on this forum? Or should I be banned, again? LOL Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 hours ago, Thomas Graves said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/national-security/how-a-dubious-russian-document-influenced-the-fbis-handling-of-the-clinton-probe/2017/05/24/f375c07c-3a95-11e7-9e48-c4f199710b69_story.html?utm_term=.22e4f756f91c -- Tommy From the above article: <quote on, emphasis added> Current and former officials have said that Comey relied on the document in making his July decision to announce on his own, without Justice Department involvement, that the investigation was over. That public announcement — in which he criticized Clinton and made extensive comments about the evidence — set in motion a chain of other FBI moves that Democrats now say helped Trump win the presidential election. <quote off> The Russian fugazi was instrumental in the "annoucement" of the investigation closing, not instrumental in the closing of the investigation -- which was all about next to nothing. Compared with the GOP taking the right to vote away from 7 million American citizens, with Comey re-opening the Clinton e-mail railroad job on Oct. 28, and the billions of dollars in free advertising the cable networks gave Donald Trump -- Putin's interference was "small beer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: From the above article: <quote on, emphasis added> Current and former officials have said that Comey relied on the document in making his July decision to announce on his own, without Justice Department involvement, that the investigation was over. That public announcement — in which he criticized Clinton and made extensive comments about the evidence — set in motion a chain of other FBI moves that Democrats now say helped Trump win the presidential election. <quote off> The Russian fugazi was instrumental in the "annoucement" of the investigation closing, not instrumental in the closing of the investigation -- which was all about next to nothing. Compared with the GOP taking the right to vote away from 7 million American citizens, with Comey re-opening the Clinton e-mail railroad job on Oct. 28, and the billions of dollars in free advertising the cable networks gave Donald Trump -- Putin's interference was "small beer." Cliff, What "chain of other FBI moves" that Comey's July announcement allegedly "set in motion" do you think the article is referring to? -- Tommy Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 7 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Cliff, What "chain of other FBI moves" that Comey's July announcement allegedly "set in motion" do you think the article is referring to? -- Tommy That's the Dems bending over backwards to blame the Russians for the New York office of the FBI sending Comey a batch of duplicate e-mails. If Comey had quietly announced the end of the Clinton e-mail investigation in July -- as per protocol -- the Weiner e-mails still would have been forwarded to Comey, who, according to Comey himself, would have announced their discovery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 25 minutes ago, Cliff Varnell said: That's the Dems bending over backwards to blame the Russians for the New York office of the FBI sending Comey a batch of duplicate e-mails. If Comey had quietly announced the end of the Clinton e-mail investigation in July -- as per protocol -- the Weiner e-mails still would have been forwarded to Comey, who, according to Comey himself, would have announced their discovery. Cliff, With all due respect, you don't believe Russian intel shared a fake Russian counterintelligence memo with Comey/FBI? -- Tommy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 12 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Cliff, With all due respect, Please...don't...let's just have a normal discussion... 12 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: you don't believe Russian intel shared a fake Russian counterintelligence memo with Comey/FBI? -- Tommy I'm not denying that, Tommy. I'm questioning it's ultimate influence. The New York FBI boys had their knives out for Clinton, and I think that had much greater impact than Putin's knives. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 13 hours ago, Cliff Varnell said: No, Comey shut down the e-mail investigation because it was a big nothing, a spur off the GOP's Benghazi railroad job. Mother Jones did a great job on the Clinton FBI interview. https://www.motherjones.com/kevin-drum/2016/09/14-excerpts-fbis-report-hillary-clintons-email/ <quote on> There’s remarkably little here. If you nonetheless believe that it’s enough to disqualify Hillary from the presidency, that’s fine. I have no quarrel with you. But if the FBI is to be believed, it’s all pretty small beer. <quote off> The Russians had nothing directly to do with the Weiner e-mails. That was a right-wing cabal within the New York FBI shop who knew the e-mails were duplicates and sent them urgently to Comey. Did Comey fear a President Clinton might fire him for his July breach of protocol? Perhaps. The only examples you cite in the U.S.A. are the assassination of JFK and rigging of the 2016 election. I don't buy the JFK angle, and I'd argue Putin came in a distant fourth for influence in the 2016 campaign behind GOP voter suppression laws, the Weiner e-mails, and the billions of dollars in free air time for Trump on cable news. I'll grant you the possibility Comey used the Weiner e-mails to thwart someone who'd probably have fired him had she won. Here's all I can say for sure: JFK was shot in the back from behind and in the throat from the front in a military-style ambush. The rest is speculation -- the thing is to entertain speculation that's fact-based. Are you aware that the night of the autopsy, with the body directly in front of them, the prosectors faced the fact that there was a shallow wound in JFK's back that had no point of exit and no bullet? That is a root fact of JFK's murder -- a wound of entrance, no exit, no bullet. The prosectors asked the FBI men if there were such things as bullets that would disintegrate and not show up in the body. That was a legitimate lead. Arguably the best lead in the case. FBI Special Agent James Sibert called the FBI Lab to inquire into the existence of this hi-tech weaponry, and got blown off. Fact is, a CIA project called MKNAOMI had developed a variety of delivery systems for paralytics and toxins that involved blood soluble darts. The Soviets may have also developed such weaponry. Maybe that's not what happened -- maybe the bullet was removed prior to the autopsy. But MKNAOMI would be a logical place to start an investigation, would it not? The Prosector's Scenario certainly isn't deserving of your derision... Snowflakes need to buck up. Cliff, With all due respect, have you read Bagley's 2007 book "Spy Wars," and / or his much shorter 2015 follow-up PDF, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? If not, why not? I'm guessing: "Don't need to, Tommy. I read The Monster Plot and The Ghost." Regardless, you say I've only given two examples: The JFK assassination, and the 2016 hack. Examples of what, Cliff? CHEKA, OGPU, etc, etc, NKVD, KGB, FSB-SVR "active measures counterintelligence ops" and/or said "active measures" ops artfully interwoven with 58 years of Second Chief Directorate Department 14 "strategic deception" / "operational deception" ops against us and our (basically NATO) allies? You want me to list some examples of that? Question: How much time you got? -- Tommy PS Yes, Cliff, I am aware of all of that. After all, I did see "JFK," and I did read "Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy," and I did read ... blah blah blah ... , and, most importantly, I have read (and re-read) all of your posts, with great interest I might add, since either you or I joined The Forum. (lol) Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 22 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Cliff, With all due respect, have you read Bagley's 2007 book "Spy Wars," and / or his much shorter 2015 follow-up PDF, "Ghosts of the Spy Wars"? If not, why not? I'm lazy. I wait for information to reach me. The number of books I need to read is daunting. I rely a lot on my BullShi*Detector. 22 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: I'm guessing: "Don't need to, Tommy. I read The Monster Plot and The Ghost." Wha? 22 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Regardless, you say I've only given two examples: The JFK assassination, and the 2016 hack. Examples of what, Cliff? CHEKA, OGPU, etc, etc, NKVD, KGB, FSB-SVR "active measures counterintelligence ops" and/or said "active measures" ops artfully interwoven with 58 years of Second Chief Directorate Department 14 "strategic deception" / "operational deception" ops against us and our (basically NATO) allies? In the United States. 22 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: You want me to list some examples of that? Question: How much time you got? -- Tommy PS Yes, Cliff, I am aware of all of that. After all, I did see "JFK," and I did read "Crossfire: The Plot that Killed Kennedy," and I did read ... blah blah blah ... , and, most importantly, I have read (and re-read) all of your posts, with great interest I might add, since either you or I joined The Forum. (lol) Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 12/3/2017 at 11:10 AM, Michael Walton said: Doug, you may want to read this article: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/20/the-lost-journalistic-standards-of-russia-gate/ There is another story I read that it was Hilary Clinton and the Democrats who bought or did something with the Russian files because it was their way to stir things up for the Republicans. And here are two others to read as well: https://consortiumnews.com/2017/12/02/edward-r-murrows-timeless-warnings/ https://consortiumnews.com/2017/11/28/democrats-rely-on-blame-shifting/ Bumping this as an alternative to Russian Gate hysteria... ...and this one as well... https://consortiumnews.com/2018/02/17/anti-trumpists-use-mueller-indictments-to-escalate-tensions-with-nuclear-armed-russia/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 2/19/2018 at 4:01 PM, Cliff Varnell said: I'm lazy. I wait for information to reach me. The number of books I need to read is daunting. I rely a lot on my BullShi*Detector. Wha? In the United States. Thank you. Cliff, With all due respect, ... You want to me to list some lesser-known Soviet / Russian spies and American "moles" in ... (gulp) ... The United States??? Well, off the top of my head and in no particular order, either chronological or importance-wise: 1) "Anna Chapman" and what I call "The Eleven Dwarfs Network" (uncovered in 2010) 2) "Fedora"/ Aleksey Kulak, who not only vouched for defector Yuri Nosenko (lol), but told FBI that Kostikov's KGB buddy -- double-agent Tumbleweed's contact at the UN, Oleg Brykin, was "Department 13 -- thereby misleading CIA into believing, that Kostikov himself must be Dept 13, and 3)& 4) Yuri Loginov - Still thriving in Russia as a "very grateful to be repatriated defector" for all I know. Ditto: Vitaly Yurshenko. 5) Dmitri Polyakov (before this high-level GRU-boy was torn away from the all-too-gullible FBI and transferred to Burma/India from D.C. and made the really bad career move of starting to give CIA some juicy stuff he wasn't supposed to ...) 6) Edward Ellis Smith -- One of my personal favorites. Was known to have told a former State or CIA colleague (going from memory here, Cliff) in 1957 in D.C. (where he was living at the time, having recently been fired-but-not-prosecuted by CIA) that he was just "kinda killing time waiting for a job to open up" (iirc) and "going to a lot of movies." LOL. Intimately connected, undoubetly, with three KGB "American movie buffs": Kovshuk, Guk, and Kislov (aka "The Three Musketeers"). Later a Stalin scholar at the Hoover Institute and, ironically, a bank officer! Died instantly in 1984 in a fairly mysterious temporary hit-and-run accident. Hint: Very likely "Popov's Mole") 7) Oh, yeah. I knew I was forgetting somebody. How about those 13 Ruskie "illegals" indicted by one of Mueller's grand juries a few days ago? Do they count? (sarcasm) 8) Nosenko, Yuri? (Hint: Read the book, or at least the 30-something-page PDF. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 ) 9) Do "Moles" count? (I mean other than E.E.S., above?) Okay, how about Pelton and Howard and Walker and Ames and Hanssen, et al.? 10) Philby, Kim? 11) MacLean, Donald? 12) Burgess, Guy? Sorry, that's all I can think of at the moment, Cliff. Must be one or two more, though. 13) OH YEAH! How about a probable long-term "illegal" -- GdM !!! -- Tommy Edited March 2, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 51 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Cliff, With all due respect, ... In ... (gulp) ... The United States??? Well, off the top of my head and in no particular order, either chronological or importance-wise: 1) "Anna Chapman" and what I call "The Eleven Dwarfs Network" (uncovered in 2010) 2) "Fedora"/Kulak, Aleksey (who not only vouched for Nosenko, but told FBI that Kostikov's KGB buddy (and Tumbleweed's contact at the UN), Oleg Brykin, was "Department 13," therefore Kosti himself must be Dept. 13, too, right? Right?) 3 and 4) Loginov, Yuri - Still thriving in Russia as a "very grateful to be repatriated defector" for all I know. Ditto: Yurshenko, Vitaly 5) Polyakov, Dmitri (before this high-level GRU-boy was torn away from the all-too-gullible FBI and transferred to Burma/India from D.C. and made the really bad career move of starting to give CIA some juicy stuff he wasn't supposed to ...) 6) Smith, Edward Ellis -- One of my personal favorites. Was known to have told a former State or CIA colleague (going from memory here, Cliff) in 1957 in D.C. (where he was living at the time, having recently been fired-but-not-prosecuted by CIA) that he was just "kinda killing time waiting for a job to open up" (iirc) and "going to a lot of movies." LOL. Intimately connected, undoubetly, with three KGB "American movie buffs": Kovshuk, Guk, and Kislov (aka "The Three Musketeers"). Later a Stalin scholar at the Hoover Institute and, ironically, a bank officer! Died instantly in 1984 in a fairly mysterious temporary hit-and-run accident. Hint: Very likely "Popov's Mole") 7) Oh, yeah. I knew I was forgetting somebody. How about those 13 Ruskie "illegals" indicted by one of Mueller's grand juries a few days ago? Do they count? (sarcasm) 8) Nosenko, Yuri? (Hint: Read the book, or at least the 30-something-page PDF. http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/08850607.2014.962362 ) 9) Do "Moles" count? (I mean other than E.E.S., above?) Okay, how about Pelton and Howard and Walker and Ames and Hanssen, et al.? 10) Philby, Kim? 11) MacLean, Donald? 12) Burgess, Guy? Sorry, that's all I can think of at the moment, Cliff. Must be one or two more, though. 13) OH YEAH! How about a "probable"? -- GdM !!! -- Tommy Good stuff, Tommy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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