The Stamp on the Military ID card

[Ian Lloyd]

1 hour ago, Tom Hume said:

Hi Ian,

Sure, the “9” could be an upside down “6”, but then the number “1” with the typical little hook on the top wouldn’t work.

I’ll explain my thinking: It’s my hypothesis that Richard Case Nagell was embedding his puzzles in most of Oswald’s activities. So I try to think like Nagell, find as many of his puzzle pieces as possible, and if I’m on track, the puzzle pieces start fitting together into something coherent and informative. 

Since I had suspected that the three corner letters were “IUL” and I saw no meaning in that, I tried to imagine what RCN wanted us to do to make them meaningful, and I picked the most obvious phrase I could think of:

“IUL CORNER”

And this anagrammed to:

“OUR LIE. RCN”

Since Richard C Nagell also had a somewhat silly version of the DD Form 1173, this anagram seemed to make some sense. But Nagell had a gift, in my view, for packing several pertinent anagrams into his puzzle parts so I looked further. 

But if you haven’t been following my posts, I need to explain something before I continue. 

According to my reading of the puzzles, Oswald was directed by his handlers to buy a rifle and a hand gun through the mail. This, of course, guaranteed a paper trail for his patsy bona fides. But Richard pulled one of his many stunts, found a similar Mannlicher Carcano, and gave it his own puzzled up serial number, “C 2766” (a number which has rather profound meaning). In the puzzles, Richard calls this rifle a “Ringer Rod”, usually abbreviated “RR”. This was one of his “BIG” stunts, and this was the rifle that caused Hoover a ton of grief on assassination day because it didn’t match the Oswald paper trail. 

Another anagram of “IUL CORNER” is:

“CLUE: RR ON I”

So looking on the “I” in “IUL” we see what appears to be the small hand-written number, “91”, which does fit somewhat with Richard’s “RR” (Ringer Rod) Carcano, model 91/38”

One of Richard’s big stunts was creating this substitute rifle, but the main stunt, another big lie (“Our Lie. RCN) was to be performed on assassination day by one of Richard’s civilian recruits, Jerry Belknap, and the number “91” translates to the letters:

“JB” 

JB's stunt was designed to force the motorcade to take an alternative route.

“OUR LIE. RCN” = The DD Form 1173, the Carcano 91/38, and Jerry Belknap.

I'm not really making an argument for this, it's just one possible puzzle piece.

Tom

Letter/Number key:

A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 

Hi Tom,

 

Yes, I've followed your posts up to a point - obviously, you've got your line of thought deep into this!! Interesting stuff, thanks.

[Tom Hume]

Thanks Ian, but it’s going to take someone, or a group of someones, better at puzzles than I am to get to the bottom of this. And thanks for following along.

Here’s another possibly intended anagram of “CORNER IUL”. If we take the next step after translating “91” to the letters “JB” and combine them with “CORNER IUL”, we can make this anagram:

“RUBLE Jr COIN” 

After 1961, the coins worth less than one Ruble were the “Kopek” coins and came in denominations of 1, 2, 3, 5, 15, 20, and, 50 Kopek values, the Ruble being worth 100 Kopeks.

The 15 Kopek coin, for example, was 19.5mm in diameter, the 20 Kopek coin had a diameter of 21.8mm, and the 50 Kopek coin was 24mm. Since the DD Form 1173 is 2 1/8 inches tall, it should be possible for someone with good graphics skills to see if the circles Chris drew for us are the same size as one of the post 1961 Soviet Kopek coins. 

Tom

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Tom Hume]

BINGO!

Please regard this as a continuation of my two earlier posts above.

Now get this: “HISTORIC DIARY” anagrams to “RICHARD’S ’88’ TOY”, and there are ’88’ puzzles in Oswald’s Historic Diary. The entire list can be found in my June 25, 2014 post at the link below:

http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/topic/20276-the-oswald-code/

Puzzle #28 in Oswald’s Historic Diary is:

“TO THE LAST KOPEEK”

Note that “KOPEEK” is misspelled, but it needed to be, because this anagrams to:

“TEST KOPEK AT HOLE”

In the last post, we anagrammed "CORNER IUL 91" (CORNER IUL JB) to "RUBLE Jr. COIN", and then discussed the sizes of various Kopek coins, which all have values less than one Ruble. "RUBLE Jr. COIN" also anagrams to:

"RUBLE Jr. ON '28'"

Which is where we just found our answer, "TEST KOPEK AT HOLE", puzzle "28" in Oswald's Historic Diary.

Connections!

Yo, calling Chris Newton!

Letter/Number key:

A=0)(B=1)(C=2)(D=3)(E=4)(F=5)(G=6)(H=7)(I=8)(J=9)(K=10)(L=11)(M=12)(N=13)(O=14)(P=15)(Q=16)(R=17)(S=18)(T=19)(U=20)(V=21)(W=22)(X=23)(Y=24)(Z=25) 

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tom Hume

[James DiEugenio]

Where are we on this now?

Are we leaning toward the idea its a fraud?

If so, by who?  And for what purpose?

But why would Oswald still carry it if its was expired?

[Tom Hume]

Hi Jim, I don’t think you’re asking me, but I’ll give my opinion anyway. I think the card was created by, or arranged for by, Richard Case Nagell, who was responsible for certain aspects of Lee Oswald’s activities. Nagell was both working for and working against the assassination cabal of Dulles/Hoover/Banister/Ferrie/Phillips. Nagell was both helping to frame Oswald, while simultaneously creating dozens enigmas that would be noticed and pondered over by good researchers like you, enigmas with accompanying puzzles that could eventually show Oswald’s (and Nagell’s) innocence. Nagell imbedded his clever anagram puzzles in all of his pertinent activities, and Lee Oswald was in the know. “ICO” stands for “Igor”, “Case”, “Oswald”, and there were at least two civilian recruits, Jerry Belknap, and Wesley Frazier. I don’t have a feel for how much Jerry and Wesley knew, but “ICO” was trying to prevent the assassination, they failed, and the ICO puzzle system was part of their alibi. Oswald was carrying the card because like everything else in his wallet, it contained telling ICO puzzles.

Richard C Nagell's puzzle system was the one place where he could tell the truth. It's nearly undetectable unless one is really, really, really, looking for it. My two cents.  

 

Edited August 29, 2017 by Tom Hume

[Chris Newton]

2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

Are we leaning toward the idea its a fraud?

If so, by who?  And for what purpose?

But why would Oswald still carry it if its was expired?

I lean heavily towards FRAUD

I don't know the answer to the second question yet but I'm certain Oswald could not have acquired it without assistance.

Despite the card being expired on 11/22/63, this card would have been valid and allowed Oswald access to any Naval Base with full exchange privileges on his return to the US in June 1962 until the beginning of December 1962. Military ID's with this kind of access/privileges are not easy to acquire. I specified Naval Bases because the capital "N" beside the card number represents the issuing authority and, although the card would give access to any base with exchange facilities, the "N" will bring with it some service based institutional bias.

I don't know that Oswald ever carried the extant card. We do have circumstantial evidence that he carried an ID signed by Lt. jg. Ayers on arrest in N.O..

 

IF Oswald was given a card at separation from active duty...                            Reality                                    Oswald ID

 

 

Is the issued ID correct for Inactive Reserve Servicemembers?                        Yes                                            No

Does the ID get a "Soviet style" civilian photo?                                                     No                                             Yes

Does the ID get a civilian photo?                                                                             No                                             Yes

Is it laminated in plastic?                                                                                         Yes                                             No

Do Inactive reserve members gain access to PX/Commissary?                     No                                              Yes

Does it have LT. JG Ayers authorized signature?                                                Yes                                             Yes

 

(IMHO)

 

 

 

[Jim Hargrove]

I also think the DoD ID is a fake.  But the most interesting new information from this thread, for me at least, is Chris Newton’s discovery of how much the Oswald mug shot on it looks like a Russian passport photo.

According to Oswald’s 1959 passport, it was valid for two years after the issue date (see immediately under EXPIRATION AND RENEWAL)...

 

 

...and since the issue date was Sept. 10 1959….

 

…. Oswald’s passport would have expired on Sept. 10, 1961.

According to the Official Story®, Oswald flew from Minsk to Moscow on Saturday, July 8, 1961, called Richard Snyder at home, and said he wanted to return to the United States. Snyder said he wanted to interview Marina, and she, apparently like her husband, also flew to Moscow the following Monday, and like her husband, didn’t seek police permission. That same Monday, Snyder supposedly renewed Oswald’s U.S. passport.

Why then, do we have what appears to be a Soviet passport photo of Oswald attached to a phony DoD ID card?  Could it be that the official story is untrue, that Oswald DID NOT get his U.S. passport renewed at the American Embassy, and instead traveled back to the U.S. on a Soviet passport?

Would there be any other reason for Oswald to have obtained a Soviet-style passport photo of himself? Has anyone ever seen a hint of any evidence that Oswald had a Russian passport?

[Chris Newton]

If Oswald was arrested in New Orleans in 1963 and he had presented an expired DoD Identification Card would authorities in New Orleans have allowed him to keep that card?

[Chris Newton]

5 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Would there be any other reason for Oswald to have obtained a Soviet-style passport photo of himself? Has anyone ever seen a hint of any evidence that Oswald had a Russian passport?

I like that idea but shouldn't he also have a "Soviet style" identification book with a photo and whatever KGB authorization he needed? How does an American walk around in Minsk in 1962 for five minutes and not hear "show me your papers"?

[Chris Newton]

10 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Chris Newton’s discovery of how much the Oswald mug shot on it looks like a Russian passport photo.

Jack White's discovery.... see previous link from last night.

[Mark Knight]

16 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

It seems, then, that somebody was trying to simulate a Soviet-style anti-tampering stamp on the card, by first painting the corner of the photo white in a semicircular shape, and then stamping the ID with a circular stamp three or four times. After which the person stamped it with a date of Oct. 23, 1963, using three different stamps, each of which was angled differently in an attempt to follow the curvature of the circles.

Why would anybody want to put a Soviet style stamp on an American ID card? It strikes me as something a kid might do for kicks. Just goofing around.

Or maybe he was experimenting.

 

Back in the 1960's and before, you could go to the "five-and-dime" store I any town in America and pick up a rotary stamp and inked stamp pad. The rotary stamp had separate rubber "belts" that could be rotated with the months of the year, numbers to make the date, and the year...and usually separate words like PAID, REC'D, etc. There were also blank spots on each band that could allow you to stamp ONLY the month, ONLY the day of the month, ONLY the year, etc. The date and the words on the bands would ONLY print in a straight line. I had one when I ran a newspaper route as an 11-year-old, and I just KNEW I'd made the big time!

So whoever made the ID had one of those stamps. That's why the month, the date, and the year have the words and numbers in a straight line as they're stamped around the circle. It's NOT a postmark, but it may be an uninformed person's attempt to simulate a postmark or some other "official" date stamp.

Put yourself back in 1963, and the answer to the source of the date stamp is blatantly obvious. It's the PURPOSE of the stamp that raises questions.

[Jim Hargrove]

19 minutes ago, Chris Newton said:

I like that idea but shouldn't he also have a "Soviet style" identification book with a photo and whatever KGB authorization he needed? How does an American walk around in Minsk in 1962 for five minutes and not hear "show me your papers"?

Yeah, but the Russkies might have confiscated his walking papers to let him go, no?  However, any idea what a photo ID on those papers would look like?

Edited August 30, 2017 by Jim Hargrove

[Chris Newton]

never mind this post

Edited August 30, 2017 by Chris Newton

[Sandy Larsen]

3 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Would there be any other reason for Oswald to have obtained a Soviet-style passport photo of himself? Has anyone ever seen a hint of any evidence that Oswald had a Russian passport?

I earlier had doubts that the ID photo was a true Soviet style ID photo, my reason being that the white area isn't a true semicircle, like the examples I saw on this thread appear to be.

However, I just did a search and found several Soviet ID photos. I found some that also do not have true semicircular white areas. I also found some where the white area is triangular and others with no white area at all. IMO the purpose of the white area is only so that the stamp can be seen. And that it's okay for part of the stamp to fall on a dark part of the photo where it is hard to see.

So I now believe Oswald's military ID stamp could very well be a true Russian style one... that is to say, one that really was made in the Soviet Union.

 

[Sandy Larsen]

[deleted]

Edited August 30, 2017 by Sandy Larsen