Jump to content
The Education Forum

Question for Don Roberdeau


Wim Dankbaar

Recommended Posts

Who were the other two people besides Emmett Hudson on the stairs on the knoll?  Are they not on your map? I can't  see any names there.

Wim

Wim,

these two fellows have never been identified. Personally, I feel that both of them may well have been involved with the "security" needed for the shooter/s behind them. At least the first guy.

Regards.

Alan

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/hudson.htm

It's difficult to imagine an innocent explanation for the lack of identification of these two men. They are in the perfect location to prevent spectators from wandering further up the steps toward the pergola.

As we know, there is plenty of witness testimony that there were men with SS credentials performing precisely that task. And Gordon Arnold: fugetaboutit.

Tim

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 40
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Then, after the shooting, Nix pans back to the gunman, who is in profile and "is now looking to his right."

Tim

Tim,

you have to stop using this image.

It was interfered with by me to remove a line running through the area where you/we see a mans' face.

Jack White was the source of the frame, so maybe you could get another from him that hasn't any reference marks on.

As far as I am aware, both the "eye & nose" that are leading you to believe that this is a man in profile, were accidentally created by me in removing the line that was put on this frame by Jack when he was highlighting the area.

Here is my best capture of the area in question, maybe if Jack's around he could comment on whether he thinks it's any good or not. :):tomatoes

Alan

Edited by Alan Healy
Link to comment
Share on other sites

As we know, there is plenty of witness testimony that there were men with SS credentials performing precisely that task.  And Gordon Arnold: fugetaboutit.

Tim

Hi Tim.

I now tend to lean towards this agent being Lem Johns.

Have you read this & if so what do you think?

http://spot.acorn.net/jfkplace/09/fp.back_...sue/jsmith.html

I get the feeling that some researchers would be reluctant to replace this "phony" agent with a real one feeling that it somehow diminishes the the conspiracy argument.

What they may not realise is that a "real" agent heading straight to the parking lot, is just as big a clue as to where "a" shot came from, if not more so.

As Chris Mills put it;

I believe Sylvia Meagher was right. Had the Commitee conducted a thorough investigation they may well have been forced to ask, "Why was a trained Secret Service Agent searching the top of the Grassy Knoll if there was no gunfire from this position?"

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim,

you have to stop using this image.

It was interfered with by me to remove a line running through the area where you/we see a mans' face.

As far as I am aware, both the "eye & nose" that are leading you to believe that this is a man in profile, were accidentally created by me in removing the line that was put on this frame by Jack when he was highlighting the area.

Here is my best capture of the area in question, maybe if Jack's around he could comment on whether he thinks it's any good or not. :hotorwot  :tomatoes

Alan

I've heard you before Alan; you're the one who ought to get off it. You give yourself remarkable credit for drawing a face that was "accidentally created...in removing" a line. Jack is on-line right now. But the moment we bring him to this topic, we will have the following rendition, which equates the classic gunman with the existence of Zapruder and Sitzman. Are you too arguing that Zapruder and Sitzman are not standing atop the pedestal? You're either that nutty or you're trying to have your disinformation taken both ways. I suggest you check the out the raw film. Jack White's version, with caption:

"It is no more a gunman than that is Zapruder and Sitzman standing on the pedestal." Is that right?

Tim

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've heard you before Alan; you're the one who ought to get off it.  You give yourself remarkable credit for drawing a face that was "accidentally created...in removing" a line.  Jack is on-line right now.  But the moment we bring him to this topic, we will have the following rendition, which equates the classic gunman with the existence of Zapruder and Sitzman.  Are you too arguing that Zapruder and Sitzman are not standing atop the pedestal?  You're either that nutty or you're trying to have your disinformation taken both ways.  I suggest you check the out the raw film.  Jack White's version, with caption:

Tim

Tim, in that thread where we last touched on this point, Jack kindly posted the exact copy I used/interfered with, it has a green or yellow box on it, one side of which is running straight through the eye/nose of your profile man..

If you can find it or have it saved, please post it so I can walk you through exactly what happened.

As for "you're the one who ought to get off it", I'm sorry my post inspired that reaction, if I find the frame I'm looking for I'll show you exactly what I meant so there's no confusion.

Regards.

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim, in that thread where we last touched on this point, Jack kindly posted the exact copy I used/interfered with, it has a green or yellow box on it, one side of which is running straight through the eye/nose of your profile man..

If you can find it or have it saved, please post it so I can walk you through exactly what happened.

Alan

Alan:

Is this what you are asking about? And how about answering the questions in my previous post?

Anyone who would like a copy of the Nix film, for which I assume Alan isn't taking credit, can send me their e-mail and I will promptly forward the footage. I ask the reader to note that I am in no way associated or in agreement with the captions contained in these photos. They have nothing to do with my work.

Tim

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan:

Is this what you are asking about?  And how about answering the questions in my previous post?  And why are you, the creator, asking me for these?

Tim

Tim, yes that is the one thank you!

Now I can show you visually how I accidentlly created "profileman". :hotorwot

Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really.

Taking the line away from Jacks' original posted image "created" the eye & nose in the second image, which why I'm asking you not to use it & to seek the original.

Can you not see what I'm getting at? :tomatoes

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Tim, yes that is the one thank you!

Now I can show you visually how I accidentlly created "profileman".  :hotorwot

Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really.

Taking the line away from Jacks' original posted image "created" the eye & nose in the second image, which why I'm asking you not to use it & to seek the original.

Can you not see what I'm getting at?  :tomatoes

Alan

Alan:

If you knew your stuff, you'd know that the "original" is strangely not available, nor is its whereabouts. Why are you asking me "not to use" a copy of a Nix frame that lacks a line that Jack drew in? You promised: "Now I can show you visually how I accidentally created 'profileman'." Just minutes later you now are saying, "Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really." Yet you statedly announce an agenda in "asking [me] not to use it." It sounds like something Bob Vernon would say.

What I don't get is why you care so much to pull this, and why you believe that the removal of a line "accidentally" "'created' the eye & nose." Have you checked the HSCA copies of these same frames? These were decolorized by ITEK, not by you or Jack White. When was the last time you posted in this forum for any other purpose than debunking this image or addressing my use of it? [by my account it was October 4th, and even that is a benefit of the doubt rendition.] I don't see, haven't seen, and never removed the text you refer to being between the two images.

Why hasn't Jack posted?" Check what time he was posting on this forum today on the 9/11 topic, while you were very strangely "asking [me] not to use it." I would certainly welcome a corresponding "profileman" Nix frame from Jack of the same quality as the one posted above supposedly demonstrating the falsity of the idea of "Zapruder and Sitzman standing on the pedestal."

If you check the "Nix Shows A Moving Passenger Train" image in the earlier post, there is no line, the removal of which might accidentally create an eye, nose and hairline.

Alan, you first said: "I'll show you exactly what I meant so there's no confusion." Please forgive my thickness or resistence to truth, but thus far you have failed to deliver on your promise miserably.

Tim

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Couple of points on this Nix business.

The line and digital photoshop that Alan did to his copy got reproduced.

This is the problem that posts like Jack and Bill's have -- the circles and big arrows cover and obscure good information. I didn't like the draw on figures.

Now I really don't like them.

Tims emphasis is well placed. A better, original print of the Nix film would still have the figure leaning down, head right. So whether its a profile or not, I want to see the better quality stuff. Wim shows a few Frames of Nix to support a grassy knoll fence shooter, and his print is much sharper than the pixilated view of Nix that Tim sent me--which is worth watching, as nothing better is available.

Where is the car? Where is the Car Hood in relation to this Marksman in his stance?

and I want someone other than Tim to answer this, or give an opinion.

Also thanks for the bit of dialog and body english of the two guys at the bottom of the stairs that led up to the fence, the wall and the car.................

Link to comment
Share on other sites

and I want someone other than Tim to answer this, or give an opinion.

Yeah, but....

Sorry, but I just noticed the following remark from Shanet: "The line and digital photoshop that Alan did to his copy got reproduced." I don't agree. I'm trying to remain silent awaiting Shanet's hypothetical "someone other than Tim."

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Alan:

If you knew your stuff, you'd know that the "original" is strangely not available, nor is its whereabouts.  Why are you asking me "not to use" a copy of a Nix frame that lacks a line that Jack drew in?  You promised:  "Now I can show you visually how I accidentally created 'profileman'."  Just minutes later you now are saying, "Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really."  Yet you statedly announce an agenda in "asking [me] not to use it."

Erm, when I said "original" I was refering to a clean frame that Jack worked with, you know, the one without the lines on, not the original NIX film.

As for my comment "there is nothing to show really" I should of said "nothing to say" because I thought that when you saw the two crops side by side you would understand exactly what I'm refering too.

The only reason you continue to use this crop is that you see a mans' face in profile, you see a nose & eye that leads you to this conclusion, correct?

The nose & eye where accidently created by me whilsts removing the box from Jacks' image, you seriously can't see it?

What I don't get is why you care so much to pull this, and why you believe that the removal of a line "accidentally" "'created' the eye & nose."  Have you checked the HSCA copies of these same frames?  These were decolorized by ITEK, not by you or Jack White.

Well riddle me this.

Why do you continually use my one instead of the ITEK frames?

When was the last time you posted in this forum for any other purpose than debunking this image or addressing my use of it?  [by my account it was October 4th, and even that is a benefit of the doubt rendition.]  I don't see, haven't seen, and never removed the text you refer to being between the two images. 

Erm, if you think for one moment that I am doing anything other than trying to help you, then your mistaken. Now that's all the defence your going to get from me anything else of a personal nature will be ignored.

The crop that I continue to see from you is the one that originally had the box on.

I know it because I worked on it as best I could to remove the lines without distorting the image beneath, virtually impossible to do.

You picked up on the profile thing when I first posted it @ Lancer & I set you straight then, that it was an error on my part & I showed you how I did it.

If you check the "No Moving Train" image in the earlier post, there is no line, the removal of which might accidentally create an eye, nose and hairline.

Unfortunetly that image is not as good as the one we are arguing the toss over.

Alan, you first said: "I'll show you exactly what I meant so there's no confusion."  Please forgive my thickness or resistence to truth, but thus far you have failed to deliver on your promise miserably.

Tim

Why don't you try & remove the box from the image & see what your left with?

It might help us both.

Alan

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I can show you visually how I accidentlly created "profileman".  :hotorwot

Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really.

Alan

As I said previously, "I'm trying to remain silent awaiting Shanet's hypothetical 'someone other than Tim,'" but it's busting my balls to allow the above implication to stand!

Tim

Edited by Tim Carroll
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Now I can show you visually how I accidentlly created "profileman".  :P

Well, in actual fact there is nothing to show really.

Alan

As I said previously, "I'm trying to remain silent awaiting Shanet's hypothetical 'someone other than Tim,'" but it's busting my balls to allow the above implication to stand!

Tim

Huh?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Don

Some other questions about your impressive research chart.
One, how firm are the names of the people on the overpass?
Were they really all RR employees? They look like police/detectives.

Two, how elevated was Nix relative to Moorman?
They had similar point of views, but the classic gunman and carhood show up clearly in the Nix motion picture but not in Moorman's polaroid...also,
where do you think the car (the carhood near classic gunman figure) was?
Could the car have been up close to the retaining wall? It looks like it in Nix.
Has anyone identified the car behind the wall?

Do you agree that the limousine had slowed to eight miles an hour?
Were the brake lights on?

Thank you for all your efforts.............

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



....Good Day Shanet.... Except for D.P.D. JOE FOSTER (who warrenatti-testified he saw a bullet ((or something, possibly a piece of head)) skip off the Elm Street south curb sewer cement apron's southwest corner & within minutes reported what he saw & was ordered to guard that specific sewer area) and D.P.D. WHITE (both of whom are annotated on my professionally-surveyed DP map in purple to represent the police), the rest of the TOP witnesses (annotated in blue) were railroad employees. (the possible four exceptions being KLEIN, BECK, "B-1," "B-2"; I think one of the TOP witnesses, possibly HOLLAND, warrenatti-testified that B-1 and B-2 --seen in the BELL film just seconds after the attack-- were railroad car inspectors)

....NIX's camera was about 8' higher than MOORMAN's camera during the attack, and, importantly, the ground NIX was standing on during the attack was almost exactly the same heigth-above-sea-level as the ground on the northwest side of the retaining wall, which also means that NIX's camera was almost at the exact same heigth-above-sea-level as the top of the GK's picket fence.

....the unidentified yellow or light-colored car seen in NIX was not close to the retaining wall--instead it was in the parking lot, parked some 20' northwest of the north pergola's cupola shelter #3, parked near/up against the ground railroad wood tie used as a stop/curb for cars. The yellow/light-colored car may actually have been identified. From my notes about collective statements/warrenatti-testimonies made by D.P.D. patrolmen WILLIAMS, LOMAX and 2 or 3 other D.P.D. patrolman (one of whom possibly also being "agent"-encountering/gunsmoke-smelling D.P.D. JOE SMITH) were ordered (ordered by whom is never asked nor stated) and all involved in searching the parking lot cars and recording the license plate numbers. That list was given to a DPD Sgt. HOWARD, but that list of license plate numbers --as far as I know-- has never been made public. (THAT list would be an excellent, important discovery for any researcher to make!)

With that being said about the yellow/light-color car, I have always found JIM HICKS testimony to the New Orleans grand jury about seeing an assassin kneeling from a car trunk interesting:

http://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk...Hicks_0001a.htm

....Yes, as described by several witnesses and filmed, the limousine brake lights were illuminated just before/during/after the instant that President KENNEDY's head first exploded when the limousine had slowed to 8 to 9 mph. (look on my DP map within Main Street between the north and south peristyles, labeled in blue "LIMO. SPEED" and the calculated speeds of the limousine from Zf-260 to 362 are detailed in a column)

http://i.imgur.com/rGmmWxD.gif

....One important consideration to always bear in mind whether you are considering the location of the "classic gunman" figure (who LIFTON labeled the "#5 man" in 1967), the "badge man," or the HSCA-determined GK assassin.... President KENNEDY was facing nearly 90-degrees away from any of those three at Zf-313, and there is ZERO evidence in the medical evidence AND medical witness statements that there was a wound anywhere on the left half of the President's head. (actually, there was one medical witness --i canot recall whom at the moment--possibly US Navy Captain DAVID OSBOURNE at Bethesda-- who stated there was a wound near the left temple)
Best Regards in Research,

+ ++Don

Donald Roberdeau
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges clearly


For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website: "Men of Courage": President Kennedy-elimination Evidence,
Witnesses,
Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Key Considerations....

The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +
Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,
Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One
Convenient Resource....
( updated map, + new information )

Discovery: Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS's
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap:
West, Ultrafast, and Directly
Towards the Grassy Knoll ....

Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden
Under the "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....


T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore


For the United States:

"I wasn't keeping track of the number of pops that took place, but I could vouch for number one, and I can vouch for the last shot, but I cannot tell you how many shotS were in between."

----JAMES ALTGENS, close attack witness, during his 22JUL64 warrenatti-testimony (07H517-518)

Edited by Don Roberdeau
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Who were the other two people besides Emmett Hudson on the stairs on the knoll?

Are they not on your map? I can't see any names there.


Wim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>



....Wim.... Besides HUDSON, the other two men have never been identified, nor come forward voluntarily.

I still have some slight doubts about which of the 3 was HUDSON, so, I have not labeled which of the 3 men HUDSON was onto my DP map. (he, most-likely, was the man on the upper left)

I have, so far, not remembered to ask BOB GRODEN, but a few years ago someone claimed that a black man by the name of MIKE BROWNLOW who helps GRODEN sell his books/videos in DP has claimed that he knows the identities of the black man and woman who SITZMAN observed shortly before and shortly after the attack sitting on/running away from the retaining wall sitting bench.

IF the black man from that couple who sat on the bench is the same man seen/photographed/filmed during the attack amongst the trio of men standing halfway up the pergola steps (the man on the upper right, who, almost immediately after the headshot ran away northwestward up towards the pergola), then it would be important for a Dallas-local researcher to take it for ACTION to speak with MIKE BROWNLOW to get some introduction to the retaining wall sitting bench black man and woman and learn/publicize their observations.
Best Regards in Research,

+ ++Don

Donald Roberdeau
United States Navy
U.S.S. John F. Kennedy, CV-67, plank walker
Sooner, or later, The Truth emerges clearly


For your key considerations + independent determinations....

Homepages Website: "Men of Courage": President Kennedy-elimination Evidence,
Witnesses,
Photographers, Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, Suspects, + Key Considerations....

The Dealey Plaza Detailed Map: Documented 11-22-63 Victims Precise Locations +
Reactions, Evidence, Witnesses Locations, Photographers, Suspected Bullet Trajectories,
Outstanding Researchers Discoveries, + Important Information + Key Considerations, in One
Convenient Resource....
( updated map, + new information )

Discovery: Very Close JFK Assassination Witness ROSEMARY WILLIS's
Zapruder Film Documented 2nd Head Snap:
West, Ultrafast, and Directly
Towards the Grassy Knoll ....

Visual Report: The First Bullet Impact Into President Kennedy: While JFK was Still Hidden
Under the "Magic-limbed-ricochet-tree"....

Visual Report: Reality Versus C.A.D. : the Real World, versus, Garbage-in-garbage-out....


T ogether
E veryone
A chieves
M ore


For the United States:

"(D)rehm (sic) seemed to think the shots came from in FRONT OF or BESIDE the President." (my EMPHASIS)

----CHARLES F. BREHM, a gunfire-battle experienced, WWII D-day, United States Army Ranger veteran, quoted just minutes after the attack and while still standing within Dealey Plaza ("Dallas Times Herald," 11-22-63, final edition)

Edited by Don Roberdeau
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...