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David Andrews

Roscoe White/Ricky White

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I'm forgetting in my advancing age: did Ricky White ever write (or co-write) a book on his alleged find of the Roscoe White diary?

Does anybody know the published work that gives the best account of that affair?  THANKS

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6 hours ago, David Andrews said:

I'm forgetting in my advancing age: did Ricky White ever write (or co-write) a book on his alleged find of the Roscoe White diary?

Does anybody know the published work that gives the best account of that affair?  THANKS

I kind of thought the laFontaine book was Ricky's main vehicle to make public his "information."   I thought it was shown to be a manufactured-for-profit enterprise?

http://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=48696&relPageId=22&search=ricky

https://books.google.com/books/about/Oswald_Talked.html?id=9astngEACAAJ&hl=en

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Here's a classic take on Ricky White.  Worth watching for Harold Weisberg , the cheesiness of White and Bill Oreilly's Mockingbird performance.  Didn't he finally get fired recently?  (I couldn't resist)

https://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Ricky+White+JFK&view=detail&mid=99EF6ED700F1559E13C999EF6ED700F1559E13C9&FORM=VIRE

Edited by Ron Bulman

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Ricky White's main problem was that he was uneducated and inarticulate.   He could not fix his mouth to respond to the critics.   Foot in mouth -- that was Ricky White.

Nevertheless, the main elements of Ricky White's story remain plausible in my opinion.

The problem was that Ricky White didn't have enough information to understand how his father's confession of being a JFK shooter could fit in with a realistic CT scenario.

For example, Ricky White said that his father belonged to "the Right Wing of the CIA."   Well, there's no such thing as a "Right Wing of the CIA".   So that's ridiculous from the start.  But that was only Ricky White's opinion of the matter -- it's not necessarily what his father communicated.

It is Roscoe White's confession that matters most of all -- but we don't have his actual confession in writing (anymore).  We only have the word of Ricky White and his mother, Geneva White.  (By the way -- the fact that his mother backed him up is impressive to me -- despite the fact that she was a neurotic mess -- and was less educated than Ricky himself.)

The key, in my opinion, is to separate Roscoe White's actual CONFESSION from what Ricky White BELIEVED and ADDED to Roscoe White's confession.

Also -- that whole scenario -- I AM MANDARIN -- sounds to me like Roscoe White was trying to write a fiction for sale.  He would write about his real experiences, but he would dramatize it and fictionalize it, and try to interest a publisher -- that is my take on that part of the story.  Insofar as Roscoe might have written that, it seems to me that Ricky White didn't understand this element -- AND TOOK IT LITERALLY.

What is crucial, in my opinion, is that Roscoe White confessed to shooting not only at JFK but also at JD Tippit.  This conforms to at least one eye-witness who saw two gunmen at the scene of JD Tippit's murder.  (But of course the FBI dogma of a Lone Nut would ignore that eye-witness.)

Jack White discovered Roscoe White's chin, neck, shoulders, lumpy right wrist and back-leaning stance in Lee Harvey Oswald's BYP.  By showing that Roscoe White knew Lee Harvey Oswald in Dallas (and perhaps also in New Orleans, as Ron Lewis claims), then we have an extra dimension of a Radical Right plot to kill JFK.

Ricky White's story did not fit smoothly into a CIA-did-it CT -- so the CT Establishment destroyed his story.  I think it had merit.  It fits smoothly into a Walker-did-it CT.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

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This is apropos of nothing, except maybe Paul’s BYP hypothesis, but I like this anagram of “ROSCOE WHITE”:

“'E' SWITCHEROO”

(In my hypothesis, "E" was RCN's code name for the assassination, and "E" stood for "Edgar")

Did Roscoe have a middle name?

 
Edited by Tom Hume

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27 minutes ago, Tom Hume said:

This is apropos of nothing, except maybe Paul’s BYP hypothesis, but I like this anagram of “ROSCOE WHITE”:

“'E' SWITCHEROO”

(In my hypothesis, "E" was the code name for the assassination)

Did Roscoe have a middle name?

 

Yes, Tom his middle name was "Anthony".

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Thanks Ray, but this is very bad news. If some think he was a stand-in in the BYPs, and his full name was “Roscoe Anthony White”, and his full name anagrams to, “AN HO/ROSCOE, THEY TWIN”, then now what?

AFTERTHOUGHT EDIT: Ray, I was being slightly facetious when I posted the anagram of Roscoe White, but only slightly so, and I honestly did not know his middle name.

I’ll make a short statement of what I think, and if anyone would like to talk about it, let’s do it on another thread and let this one stay focused on Ricky. 

Opinion: I think the BYP are puzzles and the photo’s of the Oswald character are composites of Lee’s head, and another persons body. The photo’s were probably taken with a Stereo Realist camera tilted 88 degrees to the right. CE133A and 133C are a 3-D pair, which used Wesley Frazier’s body with a 3-D photo of Lee Oswald’s head attached. To perceive the 3-D, the photos have to be aligned properly and a common Stereoscope is required. I have demonstrated this 3-D backyard effect on another thread, but the discussion went nowhere, and my photos have since been denied by Photobucket. 

I think it’s very likely that there were originally 4 backyard photos, and that Roscoe White was the body double in CE133B and it 3-D companion photo that never saw the light of day. If I had a Roscoe White 3-D argument to make, there would be little point, as there is no second RW photo.

I’m working with what I believe is a huge anagram puzzle system created by Richard Case Nagell. He was creating assassination enigmas and puzzles and he was working with Oswald.

I think the 3-D Backyard photos are huge, but I need is a very good graphics person to help demonstrate this.

Edited by Tom Hume

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Thanks for the links.  I had forgotten that Roscoe White was discussed in the LaFontaines' book.

What happened to Ricky White after the Matsu company promotional partnership collapsed?  Is there any journalism on how that venture failed?

(P. S., I'm aware of the "Ricky White Curse" articles.) 

EDIT: This article answers some of my questions about the promotional venture.  The hoax seems to have collapsed of its own weight.  I guess Ricky toils in obscurity now:

http://dperry1943.com/roscoew.html

Edited by David Andrews

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David,

I don't think that Ricky White and his mother Geneva perpetrated a hoax.  I think they were hoping that the JFK Research Community would get behind them and help them recover Roscoe White's missing diary -- that the FBI allegedly ran away with.

It was the FBI modus operandi to stomp on any evidence that there was ever more than one "Lone Nut" that killed JFK.   

So, I choose to keep an open mind about Ricky White.

Shattering their expectations, no less a personage than CIA-did-it CTer, Harold Weisberg, completely stomped on Ricky White.  Think of it -- Weisberg was a college educated writer with a lifetime of experience -- and Ricky White was a high-school dropout and janitor.

Was there an even playing field here?   No way.

But the CIA-did-it old guys from the mid-1960's were being told that they had completely overlooked something -- and they didn't want to hear it!

That's my reading of it.  I choose to maintain that Roscoe White was part of a Radical Right political movement in Dallas -- linked with General Walker and many others in Dallas.   We would expect to see JD Tippit also involved in the same Radical Right political movement in Dallas.   I expect this to be revealed in only a few more weeks as we await the fulfillment of the JFK Records Act of 1992.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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I keep an open mind about Roscoe White, who deserves more and better research.  But it says something that a monied promotional concern formed to get a book or movie deal out of Ricky and Geneva's melodramatic "I Was Mandarin" tales couldn't plug all the holes in the story to a publisher's satisfaction. 

Everybody and his mother can get an "I Killed JFK" contract, including the people who wrote about JFK taking an accidental head shot from a Secret Service man's AR-15.  Even James Files.  Why not Ricky and his mom? 

The Dave Perry article linked to above casts serious doubt on the White documents and photos not "stolen by the FBI."  Suspicion surrounds Roscoe White - evidence does not.

 

Edited by David Andrews

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Questions.

Did Roscoe White's pastor actually deny any confession made to him by White where White stated to the pastor he had killed men on foreign soil as well as here in America?

Did this conversation between White and his pastor ever take place?

If the pastor denies this confessional conversation between he and White ever took place, who then created this tale and how did it get so widely reported and shared?

Why would anyone supposedly involved in government ordered hits on other men even keep a dairy that would discuss such things?

To me the only reason that might make sense is using such a record as protection against being turned on by one's own handlers should they ever hang him out to dry?

White's dairy illegally stolen by agents?  Mary Meyer's dairy was stolen in this exact way, so Ricky White's claim of this isn't beyond  belief.

There are enough coincidences connecting Oswald and White regards military branch and serving times and locations, both living in Dallas at the same time and White's reported social connection to Jack Ruby, if even occasional, including Ruby hiring Geneva White if only for a brief time to consider White with some interest in the whole affair. 

Did White and Ruby ever interact on a social level? Is there any proof of this beyond what White's wife Geneva shared in interviews?

And how did White come into some very good money after Dallas to provide for his family as well as they reported? Nice home, new cars, etc. White didn't seem educated enough or trained in any occupation that would lift him that high after Dallas.

White apparently did cheat on his wife. You don't do this without lying occasionally. So, we can surmise White's basic character would be considered at least amoral to certain degrees. A man capable of doing other nefarious things?

I believe so.

 

Edited by Joe Bauer

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On 9/12/2017 at 9:09 AM, David Andrews said:

I keep an open mind about Roscoe White, who deserves more and better research.  But it says something that a monied promotional concern formed to get a book or movie deal out of Ricky and Geneva's melodramatic "I Was Mandarin" tales couldn't plug all the holes in the story to a publisher's satisfaction. 

Everybody and his mother can get an "I Killed JFK" contract, including the people who wrote about JFK taking an accidental head shot from a Secret Service man's AR-15.  Even James Files.  Why not Ricky and his mom? 

The Dave Perry article linked to above casts serious doubt on the White documents and photos not "stolen by the FBI."  Suspicion surrounds Roscoe White - evidence does not.

David,

I agree, basically.  The main problem with Ricky and Geneva White in the 1990's was that they were so doggone ignorant.  They knew they had an important truth to share, but they didn't know how to share it.  They could hardly understand the diary that Roscoe White had left them.

Ricky White told his TV host that his father was a member of the "Right Wing of the CIA".  What obvious ignorance

It seems, furthermore, that Roscoe White was thinking of making money himself, before he died so tragically.  It seems to me that his manuscript, "I am Mandarin," was a novel, a way to use his autobiography in the form of a novel, to try to get a movie deal.

That may be, for example, the same thing that David Atlee Phillips had in mind with his novel, The AMLASH Legacy.  It has been known since Ernest Hemingway that by using autobiography to tell a novel, the plausibility and realism of the writing increases dramatically.  All one needs to do is change the names to protect the innocent.

Yet, it seems to me that Ricky and Geneva White did not understand that part of Roscoe's story was true (because Roscoe had already told Geneva part of it) and part of it was his novel.  So, they chose to imagine Roscoe White as some 007 figure.   It would be a typical mistake of uneducated people, I believe.

The fact that Geneva White had in her possession a FOURTH POSE of the Lee Harvey Oswald Backyard Photograph has never been successfully explained -- and it cannot be explained, IMHO, without Jack White's discovery that in all the Backyard Photographs, it is Roscoe White's chin, neck, shoulders, lumpy-right-wrist and back-leaning stance that we behold.

This research, sadly, was postponed as further CIA-did-it baloney was explored.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo

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Ricky White told Larry King that his father was a member of the "Right Wing of the CIA".

He was on Larry King LIve and still couldn't get a book deal?  I think absence of the diary collapsed the thing.

I'd love to see that show.  I'd love to know if there was really a diary/novel.  Too bad no iPhone pictures back then.

"He spilled his guts that night, he told her (Geneva White) everything. There are a lot of other events that I'm very privy to, I have many hours of tapes that are locked in a vault and are safe, I've got affidavits, and I'm here to tell you that there's a lot of stuff that'd blow your mind."

Rev. Jack Shaw

Claimed to be the White family minister

http://dperry1943.com/ricky.html

Edited by David Andrews

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Is that quote from Minister Jack Shaw verified?

I am reading that this Shaw claims he never said such things about Roscoe White and his confessions to him and or Geneva.

And others that show he did.  Which is it?

Is Shaw recounting what Geneva related to him...or Roscoe White directly?

Why can't we read what was on those tapes? Is this Shaw guy still alive?

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1 hour ago, Joe Bauer said:

Is that quote from Minister Jack Shaw verified?

I am reading that this Shaw claims he never said such things about Roscoe White and his confessions to him and or Geneva.

And others that show he did.  Which is it?

Is Shaw recounting what Geneva related to him...or Roscoe White directly?

Why can't we read what was on those tapes? Is this Shaw guy still alive?

It's on Dave Perry's webpage (see link in post).  Perry is good at debunking stuff that's crying to be debunked, but an irritant to honest researchers.  Handle with care.  I tend to believe him on the Ricky White affair, on the grounds that no one in film or publishing put credibility in the "evidence" or the tale.

I get the feeling - from more sources than this - that the clergyman was a fast-buck seeker.  It's a shame that so many people expect so much money out of a book deal, when the royalties can be hideously small.

Edited by David Andrews

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