Did the Dallas Radical Right kill JFK?

[Paul Trejo]

18 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

I don't see why only somebody inside Dallas has to be the absolute leader of the plot.  I do agree that somebody inside Dallas is essential for the operational aspects of the plot.  The financial and other power necessary does not seem necessarily in Dallas, in my view.  Tactically, a strong Dallas operational role is obviously in place.  However, the strategic vision need not have any particular nexus to Dallas as far as I can see, but I'm happy to hear why you think otherwise.

As far as looking at the alternatives and seeing them as self-canceling; I understand your point but I suggest that's the same lazy logic of the CIA-did-it-crowd.  Where they can't pinpoint anything they invoke the CIA secrecy to explain everything.  I hope there is enough courage to say, "I don't know," and not simply default to Walker the way some default to a generic "the CIA" for every unknown link in the chain and for every place evidence is non-existent.

I don't see much from the CIA CTers nor the Right Wing CTers that crowns a strategic leader with anything like confidence; although granted your certainty is more convincing than arguing the intangible unidentifiable "CIA" has both the motive and operational ability for the assassination.  The great convincing evidence from your CT is that the Right stated they wanted Kennedy gone and expected to benefit from him being gone - I've never seen any evidence the CIA wanted Kennedy gone nor expected any benefit from his death.

Walker doesn't appear politically astute enough to be the prime mover here, I sense someone is backing him, even using him - but admittedly that is purely a subjective opinion at this point.

Jason

Jason,

I suspect that you know very little about the biography of Ex-General Edwin Walker.  

I have admitted that I only have a CT, with no smoking gun -- however -- I am calling for more serious attention to this figure in history.

Jim Garrison said that David Ferrie would turn out to be one of the most important people in US history.   I imagine that he meant somebody like John WIlkes Booth, whom we all read about in history class in grammar school.   I feel the same way about General Walker.

Yet because of the LN theory of the JFK assassination, which millions of Americans still accept, and because of the CIA-did-it theories of the JFK assassination which perhaps the majority of CTers accept (from Mark Lane to Jim Garrison to Jim Marrs to Fletcher Prouty and on and on...) the biography of Ex-General Edwin Walker is basically unknown to US History.

I humbly submit that this will all change by the end of next month, due to the JFK Records Act.  There will be an explosion of interest in General Walker.  That's my prediction. 

By the way -- I have also promised this Forum that if the JFK Records Act reveals some other CT, then I will fold up shop and speak no more about this Walker-did-it CT.  I stand by that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 16, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

8 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

...

I humbly submit that this will all change by the end of next month, due to the JFK Records Act.  There will be an explosion of interest in General Walker.  That's my prediction. 

...

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Hi Paul,

I'm still working through the document dump from earlier this summer.  The most apparent reveal is that the KKK/Birchers/Minutemen/Radical Right were the assumed plotters on 22 - 23 November by a dozen+ FBI field offices.  They immediately went into action on their own initiative focusing only on the Right Wingers....

...but almost nothing further was done to investigate them - that we know of, that is.  The first thing many local SAs did was ascertain the whereabouts of known violent right wingers.  Why would they do that unless there was already a known motive and known talk of harming the president?  

Then...nothing.  Silence.  The Right goes almost completely off the FBI's radar. So, if you are right, I expect the biggest new reveals will be deeper FBI investigations into the Right that were concealed because they got too close to the truth.

Jason

 

[Paul Trejo]

16 minutes ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Paul,

I'm still working through the document dump from earlier this summer.  The most apparent reveal is that the KKK/Birchers/Minutemen/Radical Right were the assumed plotters on 22 - 23 November by a dozen+ FBI field offices.  They immediately went into action on their own initiative focusing only on the Right Wingers....

...but almost nothing further was done to investigate them - that we know of, that is.  The first thing many local SAs did was ascertain the whereabouts of known violent right wingers.  Why would they do that unless there was already a known motive and known talk of harming the president?  

Then...nothing.  Silence.  The Right goes almost completely off the FBI's radar. So, if you are right, I expect the biggest new reveals will be deeper FBI investigations into the Right that were concealed because they got too close to the truth.

Jason

Jason,

That is extremely interesting to me.  It supports a Radical Right JFK CT because it suggests an immediate shutdown of FBI investigation into the Radical Right -- which I interpret as a a clear acknowledgement on the part of J. Edgar Hoover that the suspects were now fully KNOWN.

Remember that Hoover had big fat files on all the the Radical Right in Dallas and nationwide.  He knew what he was talking about.

Also remember that Dallas FBI agent James Hosty's main job in Dallas was to watch General Walker "and his Minutemen."  The Dallas FBI sent a lot of data to FBI HQ.

However -- according to Professor David Wrone (Wisconsin U.) J. Edgar Hoover decided by 3pm CST that the only way out of this mess was a Lone Nut scenario -- on the grounds of National Security.   LBJ agreed as soon as he heard about it.

That means -- in my CT -- that the FBI was ordered to STOP ON A DIME.  They were ordered to pursue ONLY any evidence that pointed to Oswald, and also to bend, stretch and manipulate any and all JFK evidence until it pointed only to Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's exactly what the FBI did -- and that's what JFK CTers have been discovering in detail over the past 50 years.   Sadly, they did not grasp the correct motivation for J. Edgar Hoover's fateful decision. 

In any case, Jason, the sudden stoppage of FBI investigation into the Radical Right was like a whiplash.  FBI agent Don Adams is all over YouTube talking about this.   Adams was the FBI agent who was investigating Joseph Milteer through Willie Somerset.  His book, From an Office Building with a High-Powered Rifle (2010) is a must-read, IMHO.

As you now know, Jeff Caufield opens his book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015) with a lengthy discussion of Joseph Milteer and Willie Somerset.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 16, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Jason Ward]

21 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Jason,

That is extremely interesting to me.  It supports a Radical Right JFK CT because it suggests an immediate shutdown of FBI investigation into the Radical Right -- which I interpret as a a clear acknowledgement on the part of J. Edgar Hoover that the suspects were now fully KNOWN.

Remember that Hoover had big fat files on all the the Radical Right in Dallas and nationwide.  He knew what he was talking about.

Also remember that FBI agent James Hosty's main job in Dallas was to watch General Walker "and his Minutemen."  The Dallas FBI had a lot of data.

However -- according to Professor David Wrone (Wisconsin U.) J. Edgar Hoover decided by 3pm CST that the only way out of this mess was a Lone Nut scenario -- on the grounds of National Security.   LBJ agreed as soon as he heard about it.

That means -- in my CT -- that the FBI was ordered to STOP ON A DIME.  They were ordered to pursue ONLY any evidence that pointed to Oswald, and also to bend, stretch and manipulate any and all JFK evidence until it pointed only to Lee Harvey Oswald.

That's exactly what the FBI did -- and that's what JFK CTers have been discovering in detail over the past 50 years.   Sadly, they did not grasp the correct motivation for J. Edgar Hoover's fateful decision. 

In any case, Jason, the sudden stoppage of FBI investigation into the Radical Right was like a whiplash.  FBI agent Don Adams is all over YouTube writing about this.   He was the FBI agent who was investigating Joseph Milteer through Willie Somerset. 

As you now know, Jeff Caufield opens his book, General Walker and the Murder of President Kennedy: the Extensive New Evidence of a Radical Right Conspiracy (2015) with a lengthy discussion of Joseph Milteer and Willie Somerset.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Paul,

I'll look more into Don Adams.  The FBI communications traffic on 22-23November from the field offices is dominated by pinning down known violent Right Wingers.  From the overall view of FBI communications style during this era, it seems that this is a culture that will document and write back and forth about intricate details.  They establish files for each new investigation on the local level with unique local file numbers, which are in turn summarized into a HQ communication.   They follow up and then follow up their follow ups.

But after around the 24th there is almost nothing more in the available release that indicates any follow up or any files/investigations started from the initial flurry of 22-23 November interest in the Radical Right.

The sheer volume is overwhelming: is it possible for a brief point in time FBI HQ sent out orders to define locations/movements of known Right Wingers? ...because either a known and documented bloodlust for Kennedy was established previous to 22November by the field offices such that there was only one obvious place to look ... OR Hoover initially sent out word to document the violent Right Wingers before deciding it had to be a Lone Nut.

Jason

 

[an interesting twist below: both the Klu Klux Klan and the Nation of Islam are of initial interest]

 

Edited September 16, 2017 by Jason Ward

[Jason Ward]

47 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

...

Remember that Hoover had big fat files on all the the Radical Right in Dallas and nationwide.  He knew what he was talking about.

...

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Not only Hoover it seems...also Jim Garrison places the responsibility for the assassination on:

 

[Jason Ward]

Paul, how close is your CT to what Garrison says here?

 

[Roger DeLaria]

I've recently started reading Dallas 1963,  about the radical right climate in Dallas at the time. What strikes me is how powerful and influential preachers like W.A. Criswell and Billy James Hargis seemed to be. H.L. Hunt was a big supporter of Criswell's and a member of his church.

[Jason Ward]

1 minute ago, Roger DeLaria said:

I've recently started reading Dallas 1963,  about the radical right climate in Dallas at the time. What strikes me is how powerful and influential preachers like W.A. Criswell and Billy James Hargis seemed to be. H.L. Hunt was a big supporter of Criswell's and a member of his church.

Hi Roger,

I haven't studied much about Criswell but Hargis is really quite disturbing.   How does he get millions of followers and 200+ TV stations to broadcast his show?   How rich is he?    I'm about to start Dallas 1963 in a few days....  I'm aghast that some substantial portion of America in the late 1950s and early 1960s is only about one or two steps away from Nazi Germany in terms of racial beliefs and passionate right-wing violence in service of nationalism.

Jason

 

 

[Roger DeLaria]

21 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Hi Roger,

I haven't studied much about Criswell but Hargis is really quite disturbing.   How does he get millions of followers and 200+ TV stations to broadcast his show?   How rich is he?    I'm about to start Dallas 1963 in a few days....  I'm aghast that some substantial portion of America in the late 1950s and early 1960s is only about one or two steps away from Nazi Germany in terms of racial beliefs and passionate right-wing violence in service of nationalism.

Jason

 

 

I'm just learning about these guys, and what I've seen so far is pretty scary. Just the level of hate coming from them is incredible. During his 1960 campaign stop in Dallas, Nixon's allies setting up his visit were Reverend Criswell, Ted Dealey, Congressman Bruce Alger, and Carr P. Collins. Quite a group there. 

Page on Hargis.

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhargis.htm

This is about the 1964 election, but has many of the same characters, and is still pretty interesting.

https://bethelatwar.org/the-politics-of-war-presidential-elections-at-bethel-college-1964-1972/

 

[Jason Ward]

16 hours ago, Roger DeLaria said:

I'm just learning about these guys, and what I've seen so far is pretty scary. Just the level of hate coming from them is incredible. During his 1960 campaign stop in Dallas, Nixon's allies setting up his visit were Reverend Criswell, Ted Dealey, Congressman Bruce Alger, and Carr P. Collins. Quite a group there. 

Page on Hargis.

http://spartacus-educational.com/JFKhargis.htm

This is about the 1964 election, but has many of the same characters, and is still pretty interesting.

https://bethelatwar.org/the-politics-of-war-presidential-elections-at-bethel-college-1964-1972/

 

Thanks, Roger.

It seems to me that the hardcore Right Wing really hated JFK and the worst of them truly wanted the president dead.  The scary part is that you can still hear much of the same rhetoric from the same quarters today.  I don't see this same level of passionate disgust in the CIA or Cubans, do you?

 

Jason

[Roger DeLaria]

6 hours ago, Jason Ward said:

Thanks, Roger.

It seems to me that the hardcore Right Wing really hated JFK and the worst of them truly wanted the president dead.  The scary part is that you can still hear much of the same rhetoric from the same quarters today.  I don't see this same level of passionate disgust in the CIA or Cubans, do you?

 

Jason

I'm sure there was passionate disgust toward JFK from some in the CIA, just as from others. The Agency is not one to be overt and advertise, so pinning anything to them can be real hard, I think.

What I found interesting is that Congressman Alger seemed to be a pipeline to Washington for the radical right, and would bring their concerns to DC.

Edited September 17, 2017 by Roger DeLaria

[Paul Trejo]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:13 PM, Jason Ward said:

Paul,

I'll look more into Don Adams.  The FBI communications traffic on 22-23November from the field offices is dominated by pinning down known violent Right Wingers.  From the overall view of FBI communications style during this era, it seems that this is a culture that will document and write back and forth about intricate details.  They establish files for each new investigation on the local level with unique local file numbers, which are in turn summarized into a HQ communication.   They follow up and then follow up their follow ups.

But after around the 24th there is almost nothing more in the available release that indicates any follow up or any files/investigations started from the initial flurry of 22-23 November interest in the Radical Right.

The sheer volume is overwhelming: is it possible for a brief point in time FBI HQ sent out orders to define locations/movements of known Right Wingers? ...because either a known and documented bloodlust for Kennedy was established previous to 22November by the field offices such that there was only one obvious place to look ... OR Hoover initially sent out word to document the violent Right Wingers before deciding it had to be a Lone Nut.

Jason

 

[an interesting twist below: both the Klu Klux Klan and the Nation of Islam are of initial interest]

 

Jason,

Your discovery that FBI files had a zoom-in focus on the Radical Right on November 22-23, but then a sharp STOPPAGE of FBI files focused on the Radical Right starting on the 24th, will have historical implications, I feel certain.

The Lone Nut theory of Lee Harvey Oswald -- probably started by J. Edgar Hoover himself -- is the sufficient reason for the STOPPAGE of FBI files focused on the Radical Right.

HOWEVER -- what shall we say was the reason for the high volume of FBI files which focused on the Radical Right on November 22nd and 23rd?

Now -- as for this FBI memo you reproduce which discusses both the KKK and the Nation of Islam in one page -- this sounds to me like an FBI agent who simply links any Radical group with any other Radical group.  There was a hope among the conservative Americans that they could pin this on the Radical African-Americans, like those inside the Nation of Islam, a racist group which considered white people to be inferior. 

Yet I'm not aware of any Black-American racists who threatened the life of JFK, are you?  Yet we know of a number of KKK threats against JFK, precisely over the racial issue, on June 11th, when JFK took the side of Martin Luther King, Jr. on the race issue in America.

So -- this memo I would expect to be atypical of the majority.  I look forward to your summary analysis of this mountain of new FOIA releases.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

On 9/15/2017 at 8:44 PM, Jason Ward said:

 

Not only Hoover it seems...also Jim Garrison places the responsibility for the assassination on:

 

Jason,

This is another great find, thanks for sharing it.  This wasn't in Jeff Caufield's book (2015) but Jeff Caufield told me privately that in the beginning of his investigation -- particularly when David Ferrie was still alive, that Jim Garrison was approaching the JFK assassination from the viewpoint of suspicion against the Radical Right in the USA.

I recently saw on the Rachel Maddow show (MSNBC) an expose of the Radical Right in the USA today.  They have been growing since the 1960's -- possibly, in part, because they got away with the JFK assassination.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited September 17, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Walton]

Paul,

How do you account for the fact that Oswald was being impersonated when he supposedly went to Mexico City? How do you also account for the fact that back in 1960, two descriptions of Oswald were given (the so-called 5-10 165 lbs description).  And within 15 minutes of the killing, the first description of a suspect is this same description that was cooked up for him three years before. Without anyone acknowledging WHERE this first suspect description came from. No one could have gotten that description of a man in the window crouching down 100 feet up in the air - yet it happened and kept being repeated.

The point is, I find it very hard to believe that the Right Wingers and Ed Walker could have come up with all of this. It just doesn't have the ring of truth. We all know that many Right Wingers hated Kennedy, just like they hated Obama and Left Wingers hate Trump 50 years later. But it just doesn't seem possible to have pulled this off without having not been in the know, with all that we know now that was going on in NO and up to 11/22.

[Paul Trejo]

On 9/15/2017 at 11:34 AM, Jason Ward said:

What evidence is there that Walker is running the assassination effort?  ...  Why so sure about Walker and Walker alone?

Jason

Jason,

This might be a good time to bring up the Jack Martin Film, in which the bullet holes in General Walker's home are shown in the same home movie film strip as Lee Harvey Oswald in his FPCC charade on Canal Street.

This connection is even more blatant than any other film we have of Lee Harvey Oswald showing off his FPCC fakery.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo