Martin Blank Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 will it include discussion of NSAM 263 and withdrawal. from what i saw last night about what will be on tonight, i m inclined to say no. What is your feeling about this? Or should we just wait?. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I have the DVD set. Will be watching it soon. And will review it also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) I watched last night's installment. Much history going back to the 40's. Interesting. Several photo's of Ed Lansdale standing with Diem. Edited September 19, 2017 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 Why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 (edited) 25 minutes ago, Joe Bauer said: I watched last night's installment. Much history going back to the 40's. Interesting. Several photo's of Ed Lansdale standing with Diem. Will wait for Jim Di's review before commenting any further. It's a 10 disc set. It will take him a while to watch the whole thing. I missed last night's episode 1. Tonight's episode 2 "Riding the Tiger" is relevant to this site. It covers 1961 - 1963. "President Kennedy wrestles with how deeply to get involved in South Vietnam. As the increasingly autocratic Diem regime faces a growing communist insurgency and widespread Buddhist protests, a grave political crisis unfolds." I wouldn't bet on NSAM 263 or 273 being mentioned by name. Here's an interesting take on it. https://www.yahoo.com/news/ken-burns-apos-pbs-doc-173104887.html Edited September 18, 2017 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglas Caddy Posted September 18, 2017 Share Posted September 18, 2017 I watched the first episode last night. It was excellent. What I like about Ken Burns is that he is heavy on interviewing persons who have first hand experiences to relate in contrast to those who rely on books and official documents, some of which may be purposely salted and planted to mislead, for the formulation of their views. I plan to watch the second episode tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry J.Dean Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 VIETNAMESE We have seen the endless blaze Emitting from your land Watched you crouch in fear Of your countrymen and mine Not French or Yank turned willing tread To slay you or to die The greed of Godless men planed your fate And our own "Our brothers" they oft proclaim it Ensnared us in that lawless horror Your fear is our fear....your death, our death We are the people. (C) H.J. Dean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 (edited) That was a good bit more objective than I expected, educational also. Not quite as deep politically as it could have been but still more than I expected. Hearing a U S Soldier that served that early on say "We were probably the last generation to believe that our government wouldn't lie to us" surprised me in that they would allow it to be said on an MSM production. I must also say I've never seen the Monk immolations presented to that extent, just a picture or two previously, which were quite graphic. This was grotesque, terrible. Withdrawal of "advisors" by 1965 was mentioned in relation to McNamara's plans but not JFK. No NSAM 263. Edited September 19, 2017 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 No mention of NSAM 263? And the withdrawal is McNamara's idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: No mention of NSAM 263? And the withdrawal is McNamara's idea? It wasn't presented as his idea, at least I didn't take it that way. I don't think whose idea it was is addressed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 W 1 hour ago, James DiEugenio said: And the withdrawal is McNamara's idea? Where is the layer of truth that is actually the truth? Chances are you won't hear anything abut NSAM 273 in the next installment either. that just might damage the conventional wisdom about how LBJ blundered into the the war when he and his backers actually had sought the war. I am truly disappointed and plan to let Burns know what his crime is. No excuses. For this he should get an F Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 8 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: It wasn't presented as his idea, at least I didn't take it that way. I don't think whose idea it was is addressed. it sure wasn't JFK's. it did give the impression that it was McNamara can anyone send Burns Newman's book and tell him to get rid of his copy of the Best and the Brightest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted September 19, 2017 Share Posted September 19, 2017 48 minutes ago, Martin Blank said: it sure wasn't JFK's. it did give the impression that it was McNamara can anyone send Burns Newman's book and tell him to get rid of his copy of the Best and the Brightest. I took it as it was the administrations idea, I. E. JFK's. Which, as you mention Dr. Newman, I think his book supports. Go back to NSAM 111 and the Thanksgiving Day massacre of 61 and it's aftermath of firing Dulles/Cabbell/Bissell. JFK showed his hand at that time by refusing to surrender to their demands for combat troops on the ground in Vietnam. He continued this policy after his reorganization until his death. He stated his intent to withdraw advisors by the end of 63 to more than one privately if I remember correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 5 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said: I took it as it was the administrations idea, I. E. JFK's. Which, as you mention Dr. Newman, I think his book supports. Go back to NSAM 111 and the Thanksgiving Day massacre of 61 and it's aftermath of firing Dulles/Cabbell/Bissell. JFK showed his hand at that time by refusing to surrender to their demands for combat troops on the ground in Vietnam. He continued this policy after his reorganization until his death. He stated his intent to withdraw advisors by the end of 63 to more than one privately if I remember correctly. they have McNamara doing it in 1962! Why not mention JFK unless you're trying to confuse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Martin Blank Posted September 19, 2017 Author Share Posted September 19, 2017 The pressure to use combat troops was most intense over Cuba (twice, in April 1961 and October 1962), Laos (spring 1961), the Berlin Wall (summer and fall 1961) and in South Vietnam (twice, November 1961 and October 1963) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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