Jump to content
The Education Forum
  • Announcements

    • Evan Burton

      OPEN REGISTRATION BY EMAIL ONLY !!! PLEASE CLICK ON THIS TITLE FOR INFORMATION REQUIRED FOR REGISTRATION!:   06/03/2017

      We have 5 requirements for registration: 1.Sign up with your real name. (This will be your Username) 2.A valid email address 3.Your agreement to the Terms of Use, seen here: http://educationforum.ipbhost.com/index.php?showtopic=21403. 4. Your photo for use as an avatar  5.. A brief biography. We will post these for you, and send you your password. We cannot approve membership until we receive these. If you are interested, please send an email to: edforumbusiness@outlook.com We look forward to having you as a part of the Forum! Sincerely, The Education Forum Team

Recommended Posts

I've been looking, but can't seem to find good photos of the TSBD roof, or even the seventh floor, circa 1963.

There's a photo of the workshop in the corner of the seventh floor, but no photo of the rest of the room, or the stairway to the roof.

I'm hoping someone can point me in the right direction.

Edited by Pat Speer

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm no help but what might be on the 7th floor or the roof?  I've read Baker looked around the 7th floor very briefly and someone from the DPD went up on the roof at some point but detail fails my memory on anything important or leading. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

When you look at old pictures of the TSBD roof, it's clear that there is an enclosed area in the northwest corner that corresponds to the northwest stairwell. Having noticed this, I'd always assumed these stairs continued on up to the roof. While taking a look at the WC exhibit claiming to be a map of the seventh floor, however, I noticed that this stairwell didn't continue to the roof, and only went down. (One might presume it used to continue on to the roof, but that it had been blocked off.) In any event, there is instead a "ladder to the roof" on the exhibit. I then looked back through Baker and Truly's statements and testimony, and they always said they'd taken the stairs to the roof. So I'm puzzled. Was there in fact a ladder to the roof? With a hatch that opens up like one would find on the top of a tank or submarine? And, if so, why did Baker and Truly call it "stairs"?

I mean, was this a Texas thing, like calling a Dr. Pepper (or any soft drink) a "coke" (small c), even when it's not a "Coke" (big C)? I'm curious as heck and will explain why when this issue gets resolved.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, Robin (and Jack, RIP). That's helpful. Baker tried to explain that there was another level up on the seventh. I guess this was what Warrock called a "cockloft". I'm still not clear on whether a ladder went up to the roof, or stairs.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, David. I've been studying the last one you posted for a couple of days. The roof of the county records building is in the background of the Jack White roof photo, to which Robin provided a link. This confirms that the White photo is of the TSBD roof.

I now suspect that the WC exhibit for the seventh floor is in error, and that the stairs did go on up to the roof. The statement of Deputy Sheriff John Wiseman said he'd run up the stairs until he came to a locked gate barring access to the roof. As this was locked from inside, moreover, he never went up on the roof. It makes sense then that Truly had a key to this lock, and that he and Baker unlocked this gate and proceed on up to the roof. Why this was never mentioned is beyond me. Presumably for the same reason the story related by Warrock--the story in which the seventh floor has a cockloft above it which is accessible by both stairs and ladder, and those searching the building believe the shooter could be hiding up there --never made it to the 26 volumes. Which is to say the WC just wasn't interested.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My pleasure Pat...

Mr. BAKER - We had to walk up another flight of stairs to get up to the top floor.
Mr. BELIN - To get up to the roof?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - When you got off on the seventh floor or the top floor--
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - Did you notice whether or not the other elevator was there?
Mr. BAKER - No, sir; I didn't.
Mr. BELIN - You didn't notice. You got off the east elevator and then what did you do?
Mr. BAKER - We walked up the flight of stairs to the top.
Mr. BELIN - To the top. What did you do when you got to the top?
Mr. BAKER - We went out on the roof.

 

Mr. BAKER - At that time I went on back. Mr. Truly was standing over here on this northwest corner and we descended on the stairs there.
Mr. BELIN - You went from the stairs to the roof to where, to the top floor of the building?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What did you do when you got to the top floor of the building?
Mr. BAKER - We walked on down one more flight of stairs and then we caught the same elevator back down.
Mr. DULLES - The top floor was the seventh floor, is it not?
Mr. BAKER - Well, you have one flight of stairs going from the top floor on up.
Mr. DULLES - Yes.
Mr. BAKER - And then we caught the elevator back down, the same elevator that we took up.
Mr. BELIN - When you referred to one flight of stairs, are you referring to the flight of stairs from the roof to the top floor that you took or the flight of stairs from the top floor to the next to the top floor?
Mr. BAKER - Well, there are two flights of stairs there. The one from the roof down to the top floor and then there is another one there.

Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I am going to hand you what the court reporter, what the Commission reporter, has marked as Exhibit 507 which purports to be a diagram of the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on that diagram you will see at the top the marks of two elevators and then, what looks to be the south, a stairway marked "Ladder to the roof."
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not this stairway marked "Ladder to the roof" is the stairway that you took to go to the roof?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it would be.

img_1134_245_200.jpg

 

Mr. TRULY. We ran up a little stairway that leads out through a little penthouse on to the roof. 
Mr. BELIN. What did you do on the roof? 
Mr. TRULY. We ran immediately to the west side of the building. There is a wall around the building that you cannot see over without getting your foot between the mortar of the stones and, or some such toehold. We did that and looked over the ground and the railroad tracks below. There we saw many officers and a lot of spectators, people running up and down. 
Mr. BELIN. Did the officer say to you why he wanted to go up to the roof? 
Mr. TRULY. No. At that time, he didn't. 
Mr. BELIN. Did he ever prior to meeting you again on March 20th tell you why he wanted to go on the roof? 
Mr. TRULY. No, sir. 
Mr. BELIN. Where did you think the shots came from? 
Mr. TRULY. I thought the shots came from the vicinity of the railroad or the WPA project, behind the WPA project west of the building. 
Mr. BELIN. Did you have any conversation with the officer that you can remember? About where you thought the shots came from? 
Mr. TRULY. Yes. When--some time in the course, I believe, after we reached the roof, the officer looked down over the boxcars and the railroad tracks and the crowd below. Then he looked around the edge of the roof for any evidence of anybody being there. And then looked up at the runways and the big sign on the-roof.
He saw nothing.
He came over. And some time about then I said, "Officer, I think"--let's back up.
I believe the officer told me as we walked down into the seventh floor, "Be careful, this man will blow your head off."
And I told the officer that I didn't feel like the shots came from the building.
I said, "I think we are wasting our time up here," or words to that effect, "I don't believe these shots came from the building." 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Jack White image appears to show the TSBD rooftop and the frame support for the Hertz sign.

 

TSBD rooftop.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another Jack White image showing what looks to be a lightning pole ?

It appears to be connected to the steel frame support for the hertz sign.

pole.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
22 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Mr. BELIN - Officer Baker, I am going to hand you what the court reporter, what the Commission reporter, has marked as Exhibit 507 which purports to be a diagram of the seventh floor of the Texas School Book Depository Building and on that diagram you will see at the top the marks of two elevators and then, what looks to be the south, a stairway marked "Ladder to the roof."
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir.
Mr. BELIN - What is the fact as to whether or not this stairway marked "Ladder to the roof" is the stairway that you took to go to the roof?
Mr. BAKER - Yes, sir; it would be.

This is the part that bothers me, David.

The stairs were in the northwest corner. Baker alludes to this several times in his testimony. The "ladder to roof" was 20 feet away or so from these stairs. While it seems probable Baker just said "yeah, fine" because he didn't care to tell Belin the diagram was in error, I can't help but think there may have been some other reason they would lie about this.

That I'm missing...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now

×