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James DiEugenio

Eugene Dinkin: The Saga of an Unsung Hero

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2 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

 I mean what was Souetre doing in Dallas in November of 1963?

 

Jim,

is there any solid evidence that Souetre really was there? This article argues that the origin of that story was a false newspaper report: http://www.slate.fr/story/78042/assassinat-jfk-dallas-oas

The authorities followed this lead but it turned out that the man they eventually found, a certain Michel Roux, was not Souètre and he had also not been in Dallas the day of the assassination:

Quote

Se penchant sur les listings des personnes ayant voyagé, autour du 22 novembre, ils ont constaté qu’aucun Michel Mertz ni aucun Jean Souètre n’avait été enregistré sur un vol partant ou arrivant à Dallas-Fort Worth. En revanche, ils ont bien un Michel Roux: il était sur un vol Paris-New York puis New York-Fort Worth, le 19 novembre. Son numéro de passeport a été dûment noté. Après vérification, il s’agit bien de celui du Michel Roux retrouvé par les services français.

Les Américains indiquent qu’il a quitté les États-Unis «à Laredo, Texas, pour le Mexique, le 6 décembre 1963». Tout concorde. Les amis de Fort Worth qui ont accueilli le Français confirment son histoire point par point. Et précisent qu’au moment de l’assassinat de Kennedy, le jeune homme déjeunait avec le fils de la maison sur le campus de l’université.

 

19 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Mathias,

I was going to mention Portugal in my response to Paul.

 

Just as an aside, have you ever read any of Guerin Serac's writings?

Some scary stuff there.

 

Steve Thomas

No, I haven't. Where can I find them?

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45 minutes ago, Gene Kelly said:

Steve:

I dug into the Army information about ordnance groups, and found that they change both names and locations pretty frequently, for many reasons (e.g. to keep up with fast-moving tactical combat troops).  For example, the 599th Field Artillery Battalion changed its home station in Germany, moving from Schwäbisch Gmünd to Ferris Barracks, in Erlangen (near Nuremberg).  In February 1955, the 599th was re-designated as the 599th Armored Field Artillery Battalion. 

Gene

Gene,

 

I'm not trying to belabor the point, but an Armored Field Artillery Battalion and an Ordnance Group are horses of a different color - different missions, different chains of command.

Again, I can find no record of, not any mention of a 599th Ordnance Group in any place I have looked outside of these references to Dinkin which repeat the same line in his "biography" over and over again.

 

From what I can gather, during the Cold War, Metz was a gigantic supply depot.

 

Steve Thomas

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3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

In some form, the OAS lasted at least until 1964, some say 1965. 

 

Jim,

 

This may be a case of splitting fine hairs, but the O.A.S. was dissolved by Salan in 1962 and its remnants were folded into the C.N.R. (the Consèil de Resistance National).

You might be interested in this document:

https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=64993#relPageId=3&tab=page

It's case of;  you say tomato and I say tomato, I think.

 

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Paul Brancato said:

Jim - thanks for the free pass regarding Nagell. Of course there are reams of info on him. But do you find his central story that he was working for the Soviets who feared that Oswald was part of a plot to kill JFK? Do I have that right?

Yes, in fact that was the sub title of Russell's book at one time.

And that meeting is described in the book.

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Steve;

A bit off topic, but if you ever get the chance to do a Viking river cruise on the Rheine and Moselle Rivers (wine country), its wonderful.  Interestingly, the French call it the Moselle but the Germans refer to it as the Mosel. The cities have beautiful cathedrals and their history is measured in thousands of years (not a few hundred) ... and I live in Philadelphia, where we have some of the oldest American historical sites. In Metz is the beautiful Saint-Stephen Cathedral (built in 1220 AD) with its magnificent stained glass.  The sloppiness of the Dinkin journalism aside, this very question was raised during the guided tours (i.e. are you German or French?).  Their reply is that they are neither ... they are Alsatian. Cities like Metz represent an interesting blend of the two cultures, and they don't necessarily think of themselves as French nor is their language and accent distinctly French.  The 3,000-year old Metz is considered an important city in the heart of Europe and a crossroads of different cultures.  It has certainly seen its share of turmoil, and is described as "variously experiencing an integration into the Roman Empire, Christianization, barbarian depredations, religious wars, the French revolution, the Industrial revolution, annexation into the German Empire and finally WWII."   

Frankly, Metz came across to me as a Germanic place, and quite a bit of it was damaged during WW II.   It also has a military flavor to it, with a long history of encampments and as a German garrison town.  Hitler celebrated Christmas 1940 in Metz, but local people rejected the German occupation, with French resistance cells active in the region.  Patton fought a fierce battle there in the Fall of 1944, and the history books describe Metz as the most heavily fortified city in Europe:

"The sprawling Metz fortress system has octopus-like tentacles that  spread six miles west of the Moselle and reach back another four miles to the east of the old Gallo-Roman city. The massive system, which made Metz the most heavily fortified city in Europe at the time, consisted of 43 forts arrayed in an inner and outer belt that together mounted 128 heavy guns. Patton entered the city in a triumphal procession more reminiscent of a conqueror from antiquity than of a 20th-century general. His oratory equaled the pomp with which he had entered the city: “Your deeds in the battle of Metz will fill pages of history for a thousand years,” he told his men. He had good reason to boast, as he was the first commander to capture Metz since Attila the Hun had entered the city in ad 415."

In the late 1950's and early 60's (when Dinkin ostensibly was there), it was a strategic NATO site defending against the Soviet threat . Metz is also site of the famous School of Application for Engineers and Artillerists.

Gene

  

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Steve:

In looking for references to Ordnance groups, I found several citations.  A writer named Don Burdett who (if you read his bio on Linked-in) states: “After several other stateside and overseas assignments, including Commanding Officer of the 599th Ordnance Company (Ammo) in Thailand."  There is also a book ("The Rivers of My Soul") written by an author who, in October 1966, claimed that he was commanding officer of the 599th Ordnance Company dispatched from Redstone Arsenal in Alabama. Then there is this:

Situated three kilometers east of the city of Kaiserslautern, Rheinland-Pfalz, Rhine Engineer Depot was designed as a Class II Installation under the (Chief) Engineer, Headquarters, United States Army, Europe. Western Area Command provides the essential logistical-administrative support to the depot, including housing, utilities, and personnel services. The Rhine Engineer Depot was established under the authority of General Order Number 2, Engineer Division, Headquarters EUCOM, dated 23 April 1951. Headquarters 599th Engineer Base Depot was attached to Rhine Engineer Depot in June 1952 by Movement Order Number 31, Engineer Division, Headquarters.

Perhaps its just semantics, and the Dinkin writer was loosely referring to the 599th Engineer Group, responsible for maintenance and supply. I'd also speculate that - if Dinkin was in some classified operation or role - he would not be too specific about where/what he did.  In any case, Metz is a distinctly military town and was during the Cold War a large supply depot and strategic NATO location.  Metz was also an endpoint for the critical US-owned, French-operated  390-mile long Donges-Metz pipeline system that ran from St.-Nazaire on the French coast to the French-German border near Saarbrücken, and part of the US Army Petroleum Distribution Command.

Gene

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19 hours ago, James DiEugenio said:

He named a few in his original draft.  I cut some of them out since I thought once the demonstrations was made it need not be repeated.

And they were in mass circulation periodicals.

I would think Stars and Stripes would be key to get the military sucked in.

 

Jim - can you post the cut demonstrations, just for argument's sake?

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3 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

 

 

3 hours ago, Mathias Baumann said:

No, I haven't. Where can I find them?

Mathias,

 

I said, "Just as an aside, have you ever read any of Guerin Serac's writings?

Some scary stuff there."

And you said, "No, I haven't. Where can I find them?"

 

Mostly what I've read is in references such as L'Orchestre Noir and in researching the "Strategy of Tension", Aginter Presse, and the Portugese P.I.D.E.

You might be interested in this page:

http://gmic.co.uk/topic/47128-yves-guillou-aka-yves-guerin-serac/

Somehow this guy was supposed to have obtained Serac's combat medals.

See also this reference:

http://libcom.org/book/export/html/36251

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=n0uRAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA117&dq=%22The+others+have+laid+down+their+weapons#v=onepage&q=%22The%20others%20have%20laid%20down%20their%20weapons&f=false

 

page 118.

 

Steve Thomas

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1 hour ago, Gene Kelly said:

Steve;

A bit off topic, but if you ever get the chance to do a Viking river cruise on the Rheine and Moselle Rivers (wine country), its wonderful.

The cities have beautiful cathedrals and their history is measured in thousands of years (not a few hundred) ... and I live in Philadelphia,

Gene

  

Gene,

 

I hate you.

 

Thank you for the picturesque backdrop of Metz. The rivers' wine country you paint of NE France sounds really beautiful.

PS: I spent my teenage years, and a couple of years after college in Harrisburg.

 

Steve Thomas

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4 hours ago, Steve Thomas said:

Jim,

 

Thank you for taking the time to respond.

 

I see where the 599th Field Artillery Battalion was part of the 18th Artillery Group, but not the 599th Ordnance Group.

I'm pretty sure these are different altogether.

https://www.usarmygermany.com/Sont.htm?https&&&www.usarmygermany.com/Units/FieldArtillery/USAREUR_18th Arty Group.htm

 

Steve Thomas

Steve, Ordnance (as distinct from Ordinance) can also mean artillery, which is what 599th was.

 

Military[edit]

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1 hour ago, Gene Kelly said:

Steve:

Perhaps its just semantics, and the Dinkin writer was loosely referring to the 599th Engineer Group, responsible for maintenance and supply. I'd also speculate that - if Dinkin was in some classified operation or role - he would not be too specific about where/what he did. 

Gene

Gene,

 

I agree. The writer could have meant the 599th Ordnance Company, or the 599th Field Artillery Battalion, or...

Who knows? But were any units you ran across based in Metz, and had a cryptography or communication intercept component?

 

More than anything else, the Dinkin story makes me think of a certain poster on this Forum who takes peoples' names and turns them into anagrams from which he spins all kinds of conspiracy ideas and goes on and on for pages on end.

 

Steve Thomas

 

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17 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Steve, Ordnance (as distinct from Ordinance) can also mean artillery, which is what 599th was.

 

Ray,

 

In researching this topic, it was kind of fascinating to read the descriptions of the ordnance missions of the Civil War and WWI evolving to include the chemical weapons and nuclear weapons of the Cold War. It made me shudder.

 

Steve Thomas

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Steve;

The cruise was a 38th Anniversary special ... not something I regularly do (in fact, my first ever trip to Europe).   But you surely look into it, as its worth every penny.  

Wherever/whatever Dinkin was, there's little doubt that he was US Army ... and they were summarily "kicked out" of France a few years later.  I think the politics of Charles de Gaulle - who some historians call "that prickly character, the hautain French aristocrat" - bear close study in the context of the Dinkin allegation.  Don Cook's De Gaulle Biography states that:

Charles de Gaulle "openly detested the new world order of the Cold War". He disliked superpowers and did not appreciate American hegemony over Western Europe. His primary foreign policy aim, then, was to make France an independent counterbalancing force—making Western Europe relevant again as an independent entity by becoming a leader in European politics.  He clashed with the Americans primarily because he perceived them as the more dominant force of the bipolar world. Many of his policies have been interpreted as anti-American, but other actions—such as his support for the Americans during the Cuban Missile Crisis—reveal that he was just as much anti-Soviet. France's antagonistic relationship towards the Americans was a direct consequence of de Gaulle's desire to enhance France's independent stature in a world dominated by superpower politics. When de Gaulle proposed that France and Britain should have an equal say as the U.S., he was rebuffed by President Eisenhower. This was in 1959, but it put the writing on the wall for France's 1966 departure. Immediately following Eisenhower's rejection, de Gaulle removed the strategic French Mediterranean fleet from NATO. In 1963, he signaled his intentions even more clearly by saying that military cooperation had had its day. And in 1966, France fully withdrew.

A lecture by NATO Secretary Dr. Jamie Shea in 2009 states that in the 50s, NATO had relied on a very simple tripwire strategy whereby the Americans would put large numbers of nuclear weapons in Europe. General de Gaulle had returned to power in France in 1958. If France could no longer rely upon the American nuclear bomb to protect French territory, then why would not France wish to acquire a bomb of its own for that purpose? When the Korean War broke out, the Americans had 18 allies, mainly Western European, joining them in Korea, many of whom, for example my country the UK, suffered very heavy losses. In Vietnam there was virtually nobody, some Australians, some South Koreans. The growing disenchantment between France and NATO in this period is also one of the reasons why we remember the 1960s.  that prickly character, the hautain French aristocrat Charles de Gaulle.  The French also were fairly dissatisfied with the lack of American support when they had been trying to hang on to French Indochina in 1954 during the defeat of the French at Dien Bien Phu, in what today would be North Vietnam, with what they considered to be inadequate American support for their attempts to hang on to Algeria. But there's no doubt about it that once de Gaulle returned to power, this sense of distancing France from the Atlantic alliance and from the United States continued.  De Gaulle also refused to deploy Thor and Jupiter nuclear weapons in France with the result that the SACEUR at the time, General Norstad, removed American nuclear-capable aircraft from France. In 1966, at a very famous press conference, de Gaulle announced that he was pulling out of NATO's military structure and ordered SHAPE out of France ... the French defection irritated a whole generation of American political scientists.

The Berlin crisis in 1961 and then the Cuban missile crisis in 1962  provided him with an opportunity to assure President Kennedy that, in the event of war, France would fight alongside the USA.  After Kennedy's assassination, relations deteriorated with the Johnson administration which was preparing to reinforce the integration of NATO and had adopted the doctrine of graduated response, which in turn cast doubts on the guarantee provided by the US nuclear umbrella.  In 1966 upon being told that President Charles DeGaulle had taken France out of NATO and that all U.S. troops must be evacuated off of French soil President Lyndon Johnson mentioned to Secretary of State Dean Rusk that he should ask DeGaulle about the Americans buried in France. Dean implied in his answer that that DeGaulle should not really be asked that in the meeting at which point President Johnson then told Secretary of State Dean Rusk: "Ask him about the cemeteries Dean!"  That made it into a Presidential Order so he had to ask President DeGaulle. So at end of the meeting Dean did ask DeGaulle if his order to remove all U.S. troops from French soil also included the 60,000+ soldiers buried in France from World War I and World War II ... DeGaulle, embarrassed, got up and left and never answered.”

This backdrop of French-American relations provides some context for Eugene Dinkin's Army assignment in Metz, when the Cold War was at its most tense moments.  When I connect some dots to the work of Bill Kelly and David Talbot - regarding the similarities of the assassination attempt on de Gaulle and JFK's murder - it lends credibility to the Dinkin story.

Gene

 

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Steve:

A few more points.  First, I appreciate your (and George's) challenge and skepticism.  In my business (nuclear power) we value a questioning attitude, and coach our engineers to challenge and not assume or accept at face value (i.e. trust but verify).  It serves in part to make our written products, analyses and decisions technically rigorous... as safe reactor operation is paramount.  We also have a saying that "its not the answers we get wrong, but rather the questions that we ask".

I was in Carlisle PA last week, near Harrisburg, and its an interesting place as the Army's War College is located there ... a separate subject of interesting discussion.

Gene 

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Gene:

That is really interesting about the location of Metz.  I mean Dinkin was right in the middle of it.

I think that is why he came up with it being a military style takeover.

 

David:  I will see if I kept the essay.

BTW, this is generating some interesting feedback.  Not just here.

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