Security Stripping in Dallas?

[Al Carrier]

1 - As far as the positioning of the dignitary in the motorcade, it is generally one of the first two non-LE units in the motorcade. Often times today there is a mock limo either leading or following the dignitary to keep any threats off-balance.

Al,

Isn't it true that there was usually a press truck in front of the limo in JFK motorcades, and that this truck was left out at Love Field? This, along with the absence of motorcycles, left the limo wide open for shots from the front.

3 - Overpasses and such are the responsibility of local LE and the advance car in today's security details assure that they are clear. In Dallas, there was an obvious breakdown in communication with the officers assigned to it as they did not keep it clear and did not post at each end.

I think that this is one of the clearest signs of some complicity within local LE. The failure to post at both ends of the overpass was certainly convenient for the shooter whom you believe (and I agree) was positioned at the unposted end.

And why would conspirators want some people on the overpass right over Elm? A couple of things come to mind. One, someone in that crowd may have been a potential shooter if JFK reached the overpass still alive. And two, allowing people from the railroad yard onto the overpass to watch the motorcade kept them from lining up behind the fence to watch. That fence had to be kept clear.

Ron

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Ron,

The issue of the press truck needs to be addressed by each motorcade individually. Prior to the assassination, a press truck would be utilized to capture fottage of the motorcade and crowd responses as the president entered the areas. In the case of Dallas however, they were dealing with narrow downtown streets with crowds in close proximity to the motorcade. The press truck would have become a barrier for escaping a dangerous situation. In a moving motorcade, mobility is the major safety factor and the SS would not want to be blocked in IMO.

I see the lapse in security atop the underpass as poor judgement on the part of the officers stationed there. They did utilize a supervisor of the railroad to screen workers who were allowed there, so that tells me they simply did not understand or appreciate the need to keep this area clear. I have considered the issue of both officers being over Elm and ignoring the south end and can see how they would migrate there as all parties that they saw came from this end. I have a hard time believing their was complicency within the DPD at an officer level within the plaza. I believe the teams simply relied on what they expected to happen and it worked out.

Al

[Tim Carroll]

I see the lapse in security atop the underpass as poor judgement on the part of the officers stationed there. They did utilize a supervisor of the railroad to screen workers who were allowed there, so that tells me they simply did not understand or appreciate the need to keep this area clear. I have considered the issue of both officers being over Elm and ignoring the south end and can see how they would migrate there as all parties that they saw came from this end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Checking with a supervisor before allowing the workers to remain atop the underpass is reminiscent of Roy Truly vouching for Oswald to the DPD before his getaway as a result of not securing the TSBD. These behaviors may have been benign, including the insecure basement of the DPD and the first live TV murder. Added together, there is a more malicious appearance.

As for the press truck not being close by, what kind of luck would have Dave Powers' camera run out of film just prior to the killing? I'm not being snide in that; I certainly don't believe that Dave Powers was complicit in anything. It really is just bad luck, history's misfortune, that such a sequence of events transpired. But Oswald's murder?

Tim

[Ron Ecker]

I mentioned SA agent Winston Lawson’s WC testimony earlier. Here are the passages involving buildings and windows:

Mr. STERN. What about the deployment of police on rooftops of buildings at any point along the route?

Mr. LAWSON. We had--police were requested at points where I knew that the President would be out of the car for any length of time.

Mr. STERN. And where was that?

Mr. LAWSON. At the Trade Mart and at the airport.

Mr. McCLOY. May I interrupt at this point. During the course of the motorcade while the motorcade was in motion, no matter how slowly, you had no provision for anyone on the roofs?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir.

Mr. McCLOY. Or no one to watch the windows?

Mr. LAWSON. Oh, yes. The police along the area were to watch the crowds and their general area. The agents riding in the followup car as well as myself in the lead car were watching the crowds and the windows and the rooftops as we progressed.

Mr. McCLOY. It was part of your routine duties when you were going through a street in any city, to look at the windows as well as the crowds?

Mr. LAWSON. Yes, sir; and if the President's car slowed to such a point or the crowd ever pressed in to such a point that people are getting too close to the President, the agents always get out and go along the car. . . .

Mr. McCLOY. I want to get it clear. In your presence, in the instructions to the police in Dallas, did you tell the police to keep their eye on windows as you went along?

Mr. LAWSON. I cannot say definitely that I told the police to watch windows. I usually do. On this particular case I cannot say whether I definitely said that. I believe I did, but I would not swear to the fact that I said watch all the windows.

Mr. McCLOY. I have heard it rumored that there was a general routine in the Secret Service that when you were going through in a motorcade or by car, that the problem of watching windows was so great that you didn't do it. It was only as you came to a stop that it was the standing instructions that then roofs should be watched and places of advantage would be inspected or looked at. Is that true?

Mr. LAWSON. No, sir; the agents in the motorcade are to watch the route and the rooftops and the windows as they can. Of course there were thousands of windows there, over 20,000 I believe on that motorcade. But agents are supposed to watch as they go along.

http://jfkassassination.net/russ/testimony/lawson.htm

Ron

[Shanet Clark]

McCloy was winking, and Lawson was nodding.

wink wink -- nudge nudge

[Al Carrier]

Shanet and Ron,

Then and now, LE along a motorcade route primary duty is for traffic and crowd control. They are to watch nearby buildings for threats, but to have to address open windows or even persons looking out open windows is not reasonable, other than if there is something that appears to be a threat. Agents and LE within the MC do scan crowds, buildings and intersections as they progress and each has an area of responsibility. Considering the buildings and crowds in Dallas, they had their hands full.

Al

[Al Carrier]

I see the lapse in security atop the underpass as poor judgement on the part of the officers stationed there. They did utilize a supervisor of the railroad to screen workers who were allowed there, so that tells me they simply did not understand or appreciate the need to keep this area clear. I have considered the issue of both officers being over Elm and ignoring the south end and can see how they would migrate there as all parties that they saw came from this end.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Checking with a supervisor before allowing the workers to remain atop the underpass is reminiscent of Roy Truly vouching for Oswald to the DPD before his getaway as a result of not securing the TSBD. These behaviors may have been benign, including the insecure basement of the DPD and the first live TV murder. Added together, there is a more malicious appearance.

As for the press truck not being close by, what kind of luck would have Dave Powers' camera run out of film just prior to the killing? I'm not being snide in that; I certainly don't believe that Dave Powers was complicit in anything. It really is just bad luck, history's misfortune, that such a sequence of events transpired. But Oswald's murder?

Tim

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Tim,

These were three seperate incidents involving three seperate groups. Considering all that had to be contended with, the human factor and Murphy's Law, I don't see this as being conspiratorial. I have had my share of Malox moments when LE personnel failed to do there job as assigned, because of miscommunication, poor performance and other reasons. On one recent motorcade this year, my pilot car would have had to ram a vehicle who tried to converge into the motorcade if it wasn't for an advance unit that I notified just in time who was able to block them off. The officer assigned to the offramp from one highway to ours, misunderstood his posting and was not in place. The Scout car failed to see his absence. I had another unit on this same motorcade route that failed to shut down because his radio was on scan and my traffic to close down was cut off by radio traffic on another frequency.

Al