Witten's report on Oswald in Mexico just released

[Sandy Larsen]

11 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Mathias,

Jim Hargroves operates here with guesswork,"what if," and undocumented rumors, just like his mentor, John Armstrong

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

 

Bullsh*t.

[Michael Clark]

1 minute ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Bullsh*t.

Agreed, Paul Trejo is full of it.

[James DiEugenio]

I have him on ignore, and I am enjoying the site much more now.

[Sandy Larsen]

10 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

11 hours ago, Paul Trejo said:

Mathias,

Jim Hargroves operates here with guesswork,"what if," and undocumented rumors, just like his mentor, John Armstrong

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Yes, Paul.  A very accurate statement above.  And don't forget his followers as well.

 

Michael,

Have you joined ROKC yet?

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

17 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

According to Mr. Wilcott, the Oswald Project had a CIA cryptonym.  It was RK-ZIM.

Yet when he was asked what the cryptonym was he said:

Mr. GOLDSMITH - And what did he tell you the cryptonym was?
Mr. WILCOTT - I cannot remember.

So either Wilcott was not sure enough to state under oath what the cryptonym was or another possibility not considered by Jim and friends is he made it up as part of his new hobby of left wing activist. In any case, one pronouncement by someone with an agenda does not make something a fact.

Edited November 23, 2017 by W. Tracy Parnell

[Michael Walton]

12 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

Have you joined ROKC yet?

Sandy - not at all but I do go there. Greg Parker is one of the more lucid, clear researchers of the case. He's very good at putting one and one together and making a good, tight narrative to prove Hardly Lee is a fantastical story.  I did laugh my xxx off when I read his "Hardly Lee" title for some of his posts and I'm adopting (stealing) it here.

There are others here of course who do that very well too - Speer, Jeremy, Laverick and even our Lone Nutter Tracy Parnell.

I know you strongly believe in this fantasy story but you and others have a lot of work ahead if you want the story to be a case breaker.  Bill Simpich's outstanding work has a very convincing narrative of how LHO was a low level asset.  He was probably recruited and used while in Japan and then they sent him on to Russia for a mole hunt. When he returned they probably didn't quite know what to do with him until the plan to murder Kennedy was hatched. Because of that fake defection, the wheels started turning for him to take the blame, as in "angry defector murders beloved president."

But there is not a shred of evidence - despite what all who believe in the Hardly Lee story - proving with 100% certainty that there was a clone walking, almost in Oswald's shadows, as he wandered through the military and his life in LA and TX.  And to think they found a clone 10 years BEFORE is just Stephen King territory LOL.

But as always you and others are free to think or believe in what you want, just like my brother-in-law who believed there was a magic motor that comes on when you throw the REC switch in an automobile LOL.

 

[Jim Hargrove]

20 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

Yet when he was asked what the cryptonym was he said:

Mr. GOLDSMITH - And what did he tell you the cryptonym was?
Mr. WILCOTT - I cannot remember.

So either Wilcott was not sure enough to state under oath what the cryptonym was or another possibility not considered by Jim and friends is he made it up as part of his new hobby of left wing activist. In any case, one pronouncement by someone with an agenda does not make something a fact.

Below are two pages from the HSCA files. One is that page from the report indicating Wilcott passed some sort of “stress analysis” test (I’m assuming that’s a voice stress reading) and also indicating that RX-ZIM was the CIA cryptonym for the “Oswald Project.”  Above that is a page indicating that Wilcott told an HSCA investigator “he would gladly submit to a polygraph examination.”  Pretty strange behavior for someone who "made it up."



 

 

[Michael Walton]

Jim HARGROVES - as Tracy mentions the Wilcott testimony states that he doesn't remember.  So he passed a stress test - great. It doesn't suddenly make everything he says gold and still, he states he doesn't remember. Personally, I find it hard to believe that one person - only one - within the agency would make that "Oswald earned a salary" statement.

***

As for putting people on ignore on this forum, I think that's sad to be honest with you.  This is a FORUM. In other words it's like a bunch of people sitting around in an open room discussing things.  Ignoring people is like someone going over into the corner of the room and talking only what they believe in. Is that really what a FORUM should be?

As irritating as Paul Trejo's posts are with his funny "the right wingers did it" shtick, he still has a right to post.  But the key is if you do not believe in it and have some type of evidence to back it up, then rebut him.  Sometimes to no end. But don't ignore him just because you don't believe in his theories.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

I'm sure Wilcott was used to taking polygraphs as a former CIA employee and felt he could pass one. As you probably know, a polygraph just measures changes in physiology that could indicate a person is lying, it doesn't actually detect lies. And if a person believes they are telling the truth they could certainly pass such an exam. Wilcott may have convinced himself that he was telling the truth as he remembered it from years before. But the weight of the evidence shows that he was wrong and that he had a motive for lying or "misremembering" if you prefer. That motive was his animus toward the CIA and his extreme political views.

[Jim Hargrove]

And even more likely, this could all mean that Wilcott was telling the truth, as indicated by the "Cuban stress analysis" that he passed and by his apparent eagerness to take a lie detector test.

 

[Michael Walton]

25 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said:

And even more likely, this could all mean that Wilcott was telling the truth, as indicated by the "Cuban stress analysis" that he passed and by his apparent eagerness to take a lie detector test.

Agreed, Jim HARGROVES. Just as he was most probably telling the truth when he said he didn't remember what the LHO case code name was.

[Mathias Baumann]

38 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

That motive was his animus toward the CIA and his extreme political views.

Tracy,

there's a number of reasons to believe Wilcott didn't tell the truth. But his political leanings and his attitude toward the CIA is not one of them, in my opinion. If Wilcott truly believed the CIA to be involved in the Kennedy assassination this belief might have profoundly changed his world view, don't you think so? He certainly was not always a leftist or else the CIA wouldn't have hired him. I'm sure they do extensive background checks on prospective employees.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Mathias Baumann

[Michael Walton]

23 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Tracy,

there's a number of reasons to believe Wilcott didn't tell the truth. But his political leanings and his attitude toward the CIA is not one of them, in my opinion. If Wilcott truly believed the CIA to be involved in the Kennedy assassination this belief might have profoundly changed his world view, don't you think so? He certainly was not always a leftist or else the CIA wouldn't have hired him. I'm sure they do extensive background checks on prospective employees.

I agree with you Mathias. I was watching the movie TRUTH recently, about the Dan Rather being fired incident.  In it, the guy who made the fake "Bush shirked his Guard duties" memos didn't like Bush.  The point being, it's very hard for a human to sometimes be honest about someone they don't like or have it in for.

[W. Tracy Parnell]

30 minutes ago, Mathias Baumann said:

Tracy,

there's a number of reasons to believe Wilcott didn't tell the truth. But his political leanings and his attitude toward the CIA is not one of them, in my opinion. If Wilcott truly believed the CIA to be involved in the Kennedy assassination this belief might have profoundly changed his world view, don't you think so? He certainly was not always a leftist or else the CIA wouldn't have hired him. I'm sure they do extensive background checks on prospective employees.

I disagree completely. It is impossible to know, of course, when he developed his more extreme political leanings but he certainly was already left of center by the time of the JFK killing and he stated he was a JFK supporter then. He never spoke publicly about his theories until 1968 and that was plenty of time for him to develop his views. No doubt the conspiracy literature he read (he mentioned reading Garrison at least) mixed with his own recollections resulted in his story.

[Jim Hargrove]

Here is another page from that fascinating HSCA report about James Wilcott.  In it, the writer describes how Mr. Wilcott was forbidden to “reveal specifics of specific questions,” and that HSCA attorney Michael Goldsmith wanted secrecy for the entire affair.  Small wonder these notes on Wilcott’s revelations differ from his testimony which was published, in part, decades after he gave it.

Some of the old hands here will recall how HSCA photo consultant Jack White told us that he was threatened with contempt of Congress if he showed publicly some of his facial studies of “Lee Harvey Oswald.”  Sound familiar?

For those who, for some reason, can’t see the image of this document, here is the part I’ve highlighted in yellow (emphasis added):

Wilcott met source in Bay Area in Jan-Feb 1978.  Source is son of a good friend, who is sex-FBI agent. Son wlaked (sic) in on father and another agent in study.  Son overheard conversation that FBI knew Oswald was CIA agent.  Verify.
Father discovered son had overheard conversation and swore son to secrecy.  Father later died of heart attack.  Son afraid. Verifies Wilcott statement.  Son refuses to testify since committee cannot guarantee anyone’s security and since witnesses are still dying.

Concerning Michael Goldsmith conversation: same conversation included Goldsmith desire to insure secrecy of Wilcott testimony.  Goldsmith said Committee did not want any public revelation on his committee appearance.
Schapp, Wilcott refused.  Agreed to not reveal specifics of specific questions.

This material was buried in HSCA files without an explanatory cover sheet.  It may have been preserved in error.