New document releases 2017 and beyond

[David Butler]

Released in the October 26 batch previously withheld in full according to the xls

Relates to the 1964 investigation into Oswald's potential bus trip - Not sure if it's just me but this section reads a bit odd

"Upon reinterview today Anastasio Ruiz Meza advised that after considering circumstances of his trip and consulting with superior to determine if cooperation in this matter might be inimical his best interests he is certain that young American who had incident at Kilometer 26 Immigration Station was Oswald"

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263070.pdf

[James DiEugenio]

I have seen that David.

Isn't that funny?  Its pretty clear that if you read this stuff about what was going on in MC that, as David Josephs has pointed out, it was pretty much pasted together after the fact.

Echeverria was a key factor in this whole charade--you know the future president of Mexico.  (BTW, someone told me the PRI secretly nominated these guys way before they were inaugurated.)  And by the time the FBI got there, it was a real joke as to what they were discovering and had to report.  IMO, the most ridiculous part of the whole thing is the return bus ride.  When you read that, it is almost out of Chaplin.

Edited November 25, 2017 by James DiEugenio

[Paul Trejo]

On 11/24/2017 at 5:29 PM, David Butler said:

From the July release previously withheld in full about Marina. HSCA NBR and hardly legible in places. The first page you can make out "It is my firm belief that such further debriefing of Mrs Oswald is necessary because of numerous mistakes in her Soviet documentation, suspicious gaps and discrepancies in her story regarding her life in the USSR: and some peculiarities in her correspondence with addresses in the USSR, which strongly suggest that some form of open code was employed between here and her correspondents in the USSR" 

At the bottom are four legible pages and some letters "strongly suggest that some form of open code was employed between Marina and her correspondents in the USSR. Following are some examples:" Needless to say thats where the story ends and there are no examples...

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32404866.pdf

David,

Nothing was ever produced to show anything to "strongly suggest" that Marina Oswald lied while under oath.

The HSCA -- especially under Richard Sprague -- was a paranoid witch hunt.   Until the last minute save by Bolt, Beranek, Newman and Barger (and their dictabelt breakthrough) the HSCA had nothing whatsoever to show for two years' work.   Marina Oswald-Porter's 1979 testimony was virtually identical to her 1964 testimony.

The FBI had successfully kept concealed the truth about Oswald's Mexico City Trip -- and everything else -- so that all Robert Blakey had left was his silly Mafia-did-it CT, which he later recanted.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 27, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

On 11/25/2017 at 11:49 AM, David Butler said:

Released in the October 26 batch previously withheld in full according to the xls

Relates to the 1964 investigation into Oswald's potential bus trip - Not sure if it's just me but this section reads a bit odd

"Upon reinterview today Anastasio Ruiz Meza advised that after considering circumstances of his trip and consulting with superior to determine if cooperation in this matter might be inimical his best interests he is certain that young American who had incident at Kilometer 26 Immigration Station was Oswald"

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263070.pdf

David,

In my opinion, the truth about the Mexico City trip was told in 1965 by long-time FORUM member Harry Dean, as follows:

1.  Loran Hall and Larry Howard [both of whom were known to Oswald through Gerry Patrick Hemming], driving in a car, picked up Lee Harvey Oswald from New Orleans during the final week of September 1963.

2.  On the way to Mexico City to meet Guy Gabaldon [whom Oswald had never seen before] the trio stopped at the home of Sylvia Odio [to attempt to get the name of any JURE member still inside Cuba, to help Oswald get his Visa into Cuba].

3.  Hall gave Sylvia his war name, "Lorenzo," while Howard gave Sylvia his war name, "Alonzo."

4.  Striking out, they moved on to Mexico City.

5.  Mexican Immigration records show that Lee Harvey Oswald entered Mexico City as a "passenger in an automobile."

6.  Lee Harvey Oswald made a fool of himself at the Cuban Consulate and at the Soviet Embassy.  His fake FPCC resume was worthless there.

7.  We don't know what Lee Harvey Oswald and Guy Gabaldon said to each other, there.

8.  [Bill Simpich (2014) showed that some Insider impersonated Oswald over the Cuban Consulate telephone to the Soviet Embassy on October 1, 1963, and the CIA found out in one hour that it was an impersonation, and started a top secret CIA Mole Hunt to find the impersonator.]

9.  Mexican Immigration records show that Lee Harvey Oswald exited Mexico City as a "passenger in an automobile."

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 27, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[David Josephs]

3 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

David,

In my opinion

And here he goes again....

6 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Nothing was ever produced to show anything to "strongly suggest" that Marina Oswald lied while under oath.

I am going to take the time to show you one of thousands of lies Marina was caught telling...   and it just so happens to be about Mexico...

Shut your hole and read with comprehension - you CAN do that can you?

Marina initially (Nov 28/29) tells the truth about what she knows of MEXICO CITY...  but then time passes....

Prior to her WCR testimony Marina took her oath.....  to tell the truth, one assumes.

The CHAIRMAN. Very well.
Very well, we will proceed to swear Mrs. Oswald as a witness.
Will you please rise, Mrs. Oswald.
(The Chairman administered the oath to the witness, Mrs. Oswald, through the interpreter.)
The CHAIRMAN. Mr. Reporter, will you rise, please, and be sworn.

==========================

But that's in February 1964....   this is what she says in Nov 1963....

https://www.history-matters.com/archive/jfk/wc/wcvols/wh23/html/WH_Vol23_0210b.htm  is a link to a report summarizing the FBI interview at Six Flags in Dallas of Marina on Nov 29, 1963.   On pages 549 and 550 we are told that Marina was asked about Mexico City and Oswald. 

"Mrs. Oswald said that she did not know anything about any trip OSWALD may have made to Mexico City."

And the SS interview Nov 29^th: 

“She was asked whether she had any knowledge of Lee's trips to Mexico or Washington, D.C.  She replied in the negative.  She was asked whether she or Lee had any cameras and she replied that Lee bought one camera in Russia and a second one in the United States . She said one was a small camera and the other was a box camera. She added that she was not proficient with operating any Cameras and she never had an opportunity to do so.”

 

 

WCR testimony:

Mrs. OSWALD. Nothing. And it is at that time that I wrote a letter to Mrs. Paine telling her that Lee was out of work, and they invited me to come and stay with her. And when I left her, I knew that Lee would go to Mexico City. But, of course, I didn't tell Mrs. Paine about it.

Mr. RANKIN. Had he discussed with you the idea of going to Mexico City?

Mrs. OSWALD. Yes.

Mr. RANKIN. When did he first discuss that?

Mrs. OSWALD. I think it was in August.
 

HSCA testimony:

Mr. McDONALD - When did you first learn of his planned trip to Mexico City? When did you first know about that?

Mrs. PORTER - Shortly before I left for Dallas with Ruth Paine.

Mr. McDONALD - How did you learn of this?

Mrs. PORTER - He told me about his plans to go to Mexico City and to visit the Cuban Embassy over there.

…..

Mr. RANKIN When your husband talked about going to Mexico City, did he say where he was going to go there, who he would visit?
Mrs. OSWALD. Yes. He said that he would go to the Soviet Embassy and to the Cuban Embassy and would do everything he could in order to get to Cuba.

 

================================

 

Marina lied her butt off about Mexico...   in fact, SHE was the WCR source for Oswald taking a bus to Houston... 2 days AFTER she had already left with Ruth...

How would she know WHAT Oswald did while she was driving to Irving?

 

Once again Paul....  you state conclusions as if you first - understood them and second - as if you could point to the work that enabled you to come to such monumental conclusions...

Here it is again Paul:

 

23 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

Nothing was ever produced to show anything to "strongly suggest" that Marina Oswald lied while under oath.

Using absolutes like EVER and ANYTHING does not imply "opinions" Paul....  only facts that you continually misrepresent and will forever be beyond your reach.

Hey        Do a little research BEFORE you post and maybe you wont continue to look so - lost.

[David Butler]

Paul B asked on another thread about June Cobb. One listed on the xls as previously withheld in full is this one - However there are a lot of blank pages in here

The top bit is about the translation of a book mentioned elsewhere on the forum I believe. Then a lot of blank pages. There is then one page if you scroll far enough "WH comment: Ref related Mexi concern at LINCOOKY/LINLUCK relationship, and asked for authority to pressure them apart" then more blank pages and finally the last page has "She was recruited in June 1960 and has been utilised by SAS and WH Division since that time" signed J.M Whitten 

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10175-10176.pdf

[David Butler]

Can't remember if this has been discussed here before but withheld in full until the 3rd November 2017 release is the personnel file of James B Wilcott jr

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/104-10195-10003.pdf

[David Josephs]

On 11/25/2017 at 9:49 AM, David Butler said:

Released in the October 26 batch previously withheld in full according to the xls

Relates to the 1964 investigation into Oswald's potential bus trip - Not sure if it's just me but this section reads a bit odd

"Upon reinterview today Anastasio Ruiz Meza advised that after considering circumstances of his trip and consulting with superior to determine if cooperation in this matter might be inimical his best interests he is certain that young American who had incident at Kilometer 26 Immigration Station was Oswald"

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32263070.pdf

The "superiors" he is referring to.....

Part 5, page 3 The Trip Home 

Seat #15 on the other hand was specifically mentioned by Mr. Ruiz Meza who we find later is a footnote source in the WCR for Oswald having taken the Laredo-Dallas bus. CE2121 p78 is more from ANASTASIO RUIZ MEZA who claimed to have seen Oswald on the bus. Mr. RUIZ it turns out is employed in the Auditor’s Office of the Customs section of the Mexican government (CE2121 p73) and just happens to be on the same bus as our traveler needs to be – even though like our traveler, his name is not listed on the passenger manifest but instead names the agency from which the ticket was purchased..

https://kennedysandking.com/content/mexico-city-part-5-leaving-mexico-part-2

Page 2 is the list.... Paula Rusioni, Van Dee Vorm.  Interesting stories......

That little paper is the end of trip home Jim mentions... From the end of part 4:

As mentioned above, in late August 1964 Marina finds the corroborating evidence for Del Norte bus ticket #13688. WCD 1518 p34 (below) discusses the details of what would ultimately become FBI D-237.

... You can't make this stuff up.....

[David Josephs]

We are to remember that the evidence which FIRST was associated with this trip from Mexico City to Laredo comes from the Arturo Bosch altered FRONTERA passenger manifest. Eventually, when it was decided that our man Oswald was NOT on the FRONTERA 340 bus at 2pm, it was dropped like a hot potato.

Yet thru March/April 1964 it was believed that this evidence was accurate. WCD 684 p2-CE2122 even though the rest of CE2122 is dedicated to explaining away the conflicting evidence for what is seen on this manifest. There is no mention of ARTURO BOSCH or his handiwork in this Exhibit. 

[Guest]

On 11/20/2017 at 10:46 PM, David Butler said:

Norman Redlich - Previously withheld in full - background information and references

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32311650.pdf

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32200070.pdf

Page 9 is on Redlich

[David Josephs]

One of the most important memos rarely see is this memo Redlich writes to Rankin...

He basically lays out how the WCR will be a scam and that the FBI and SS "facts" are TOTALLY INCORRECT...
As of April 27th... 3 shot = 3 hits with one of the shots 40 feet further down ELM than is shown at Z313...

I should add that the facts which we now have in our possession, submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and Secret Service, are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will present a completely misleading picture.

Another amazing sentence:

Our intention is not to establish the point with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the hypothesis which underlies the conclusions that Oswald was the sole assassin

The entire memo:

April 27, 1964

 

MEMORANDUM

 

TO:     J. Lee Rankin

 

FROM:   Norman Redlich

 

 

        The purpose of this memorandum is to explain the reasons why

certain members of the staff feel that it is important to take certain

on-site photographs in connection with the location of the approximate

points at which the three bullets struck the occupants of the

Presidential limousine.

 

        Our report presumably will state that the President was hit by

the first bullet, Governor Connally by the second, and the President

by the third and fatal bullet.  The report will also conclude that the

bullets were fired by one person located in the sixth floor southeast

corner window of the TSBD building.

 

        As our investigation now stands, however, we have not shown

that these events could possibly have occurred in the manner suggested

above.  All we have is a reasonable hypothesis which appears to be

supported by the medical testimony but which has not been checked out

against the physical facts at the scene of the assassination.

 

        Our examination of the Zapruder films shows that the fatal

third shot struck the President at a point which we can locate with

reasonable accuracy on the ground.  We can do this because we know the

exact frame (no. 313) in the film at which the third shot hit the

President and we know the location of the photographer.  By lining up

fixed objects in the movie frame where this shot occurs we feel that

we have determined the approximate location of this shot.  This can be

verified by a photo of the same spot from the point where Zapruder was

standing.

 

        We have the testimony of Governor and Mrs. Connally that the

Governor was hit with the second bullet at a point which we probably

cannot fix with precision.  We feel we have established, however, with

the help of medical testimony, that the shot which hit the Governor

did not come after frame 240 on the Zapruder film.  The governor feels

that it came around 230, which is certainly consistent with our

observations of the film and with the doctor's testimony.  Since the

President was shot at frame 313, this would leave a time of at least 4

seconds between the two shots, certainly ample for even an

inexperienced marksman.

 

        Prior to our last viewing of the films with Governor Connally

we had assumed that the President was hit while he was concealed

behind the sign which occurs between frames 215-225.  We have expert

testimony to the effect that a skilled marksman would require a

minimum 2 seconds between shots with this rifle.  Since the camera

operates at 18 1/3 frames per second, there would have to be a minimum

of 40 frames between shots.  It is apparent, therefore, that if

Governor Connally was even as late as frame 240, the President would

have to have been hit no later than frame 190 and probably even

earlier.

 

        We have not yet examined the assassination scene to determine

whether the assassin in fact could have shot the President prior to

frame 190.  We could locate the position on the ground which

corresponds to this frame and it would then be our intent to establish

by photography that the assassin would have fired the first shot at the

President prior to this point.  Our intention is not to establish the point
with complete accuracy, but merely to substantiate the hypothesis which underlies
the conclusions that Oswald was the sole assassin.

 

        I had always assumed that our final report would be

accompanied by a surveyor's diagram which would indicate the

approximate location of the three shots.  We certainly cannot prepare

such a diagram without establishing that we are describing an

occurrence which is physically possible.  Our failure to do this will,

in my opinion, place this Report in jeopardy since it is a certainty

that others will examine the Zapruder films and raise the same

questions which have been raised by our examination of the films.  If

we do not attempt to answer these observable facts, others may answer

them with facts which challenge our most basic assumptions, or with

fanciful theories based on our unwillingness to test our assumptions

by the investigatory methods available to us.

 

        I should add that the facts which we now have in our possession,
submitted to us in separate reports from the FBI and Secret Service,
are totally incorrect and, if left uncorrected, will present
a completely misleading picture.

 

        It may well be that this project should be undertaken by the

FBI and Secret Service with our assistance instead of being done as a

staff project.  The important thing is that the project be undertaken

expeditiously.

 

The FACTS in their possession:
The 3 surveys to this point (Time/Life, SS and FBI) all state Z313 is shot #2 with #3 at elevation 416.83 down by the beginning of the Knoll stairs.

With the help of Melvin Eisenberg in the month of May 1964... CE884 is changed and the 3rd shot on these surveys is made to disappear in the final presentation.

Redlich was either trying to save the conspiracy, or trying to expose it...  There is literally nothing I could find to follow up this memo other than the wholesale changing of the FACTS in their possession.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

Is anyone asking themselves the same questions I am after looking at lots of this stuff?

First, the ARRB seems to me to have gone along with way too many postponements on flimsy  grounds.  In my recent article on this subject I noted that the CIA realized this pretty early on, in late 1995, that the ARRB would be easy to get deferments from.  Boy, were they.

Second, Hoover was determined to use any weapon at his disposal to make sure he would be able to intimidate the Commission and the critics.  Why the Review Board would want to go along and defer that info escapes me.  And why the MSM would want to discount it or not report it also is elusive.  Because today, Hoover's reputation is pretty much in tatters.

 

 

[Michael Clark]

This is damning stuff. Amazing.

[David Butler]

Listed on the xls as having been previously withheld in full is this one from the 26th October 2017 release

409 page PDF on individuals of interest to the Protective Research Service - A few names we know in here Gerry Patrick Hemming, Richard Case Nagell,  Orlando Bosch

I was interested in this one though as I scrolled down

PDF page 388 - William Evert Randle

"Reason for PRS interest - 11/63 subject claimed to have 2 or 3 doors from LHO and knew Oswald personally. This is was rumoured if JFK came to Dallas, he would be killed"

"Date called to Secret Service attention - 11/23/63"

"Action taken - Interviewed 11/28/63 : denied knowing LHO and remarked only that Oswald had lived somewhere in neighbourhood. Information determined groundless, deemed not of protective interest."

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32241845.pdf

[Paul Trejo]

6 hours ago, David Butler said:

Listed on the xls as having been previously withheld in full is this one from the 26th October 2017 release

409 page PDF on individuals of interest to the Protective Research Service - A few names we know in here Gerry Patrick Hemming, Richard Case Nagell,  Orlando Bosch

I was interested in this one though as I scrolled down

PDF page 388 - William Evert Randle

"Reason for PRS interest - 11/63 subject claimed to have 2 or 3 doors from LHO and knew Oswald personally. That is was rumored if JFK came to Dallas, he would be killed"

"Date called to Secret Service attention - 11/23/63"

"Action taken - Interviewed 11/28/63 : denied knowing LHO and remarked only that Oswald had lived somewhere in neighbourhood. Information determined groundless, deemed not of protective interest."

https://www.archives.gov/files/research/jfk/releases/docid-32241845.pdf

David,

Yes, I find this one particularly interesting myself.

Buell Wesley Frazier was the nephew of William Evert Randle, and was living with Randle when Oswald returned to the USA from Mexico into the neighborhood of William Evert Randle.   Buell Wesley Frazier was working inside the Texas School Book Depository (TSBD) at the time.

It was the wife of William Evert Randle who suggested to Marina Oswald (through Ruth Paine) that Lee Harvey Oswald should apply for a job at the TSBD.  His wife was Linnie Mae Randle.

Ruth Paine is often accused of coordinating with the CIA to establish Lee Harvey Oswald inside the TSBD.  Yet it was really Marina Oswald -- very anxious for Lee Harvey Oswald to get a job -- who urgently begged Ruth Paine to call the TSBD and request an interview.

Now, I have always wanted a closer look into William Evert Randle.  What were his politics?  Was he a member of the Dallas group, "Friends of Walker?"   If so, that could cinch this aspect of my CT.

It didn't matter much if Lee Harvey Oswald really worked inside the TSBD or not.  Once the JFK plotters got their hands on Oswald's rifle, he could have been shot on any Dallas street, because he was already framed enough as an FPCC Communist for the plot to work.  The plotters would have only invented some story about how the shooter ran from the Grassy Knoll.  It was easy to find "mistaken identity" witnesses -- like a bus driver who claimed Oswald was on his bus, and bus passengers, too, and a taxi driver who said Oswald was in his cab.  (These same phony witnesses testified for the WC against Oswald.)

But it was a bit of extra-good luck to place Oswald inside the TSBD.

So, my question is -- what else can we find out about William Evert Randle?   Why did Randle call the FBI on the day after the JFK assassination, and claim to know Oswald personally?   Why would Randle say "it was rumored that JFK would be killed?"  Why did Randle then recant his story when the FBI contacted him after Oswald was dead?

Very interesting to my CT.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited November 29, 2017 by Paul Trejo
typos