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Sandy Larsen

What bullet trajectory created the back-of-head blowout wound?

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5 hours ago, David Josephs said:

Nice try...  reminds me of the blind men describing an elephant...   you have just enough info to be dangerous, but not enough to be correct.

The craniotomy that was performed to reflect the scalp away from the wound does not go ACROSS the skull... 
but g~d forbid you do some work and look something up yourself... right :up

5a31b7623cd87_Autopsy-Brainremoval.thumb.jpg.32313669ea7e43a9ba7217a2982db7e2.jpg

So the orientation is such, possibly even turned a bit more clock-wise....  and this image completely hides the right temple area where the entry was....

5a31b7b47ae3b_f8relativetof7overlay-confirmedbydoctors.thumb.jpg.35764a1d47c2ecc73252f3559f961648.jpg

 

The impact popped open that flap...  Boswell or one of the Drs is pulling the unattached scalp back over that hole....   by the way, read carefully thru the brain removal...
it is not possible that a shot or several shots severed all the connections between the brain and the scalp....  not possible. 

HUMES was performing a partial craniotomy prior to 8pm... and simply extended the laceration lines when the time was right...

Maybe read BEST EVIDENCE?  or not enough pictures for you?

To better examine the situation with regard to the skull, at this time, Boswell and I extended the lacerations of the scalp which were at the margins of this wound, down in the direction of both of the President's ears. At that point, we had even a better appreciation of the extensive damage which had been done to the skill by this injury.
We had to do virtually no work with a saw to remove these Portions of the skull, they came apart in our hands very easily

The connection between the skull and the underlying media is thorough... the falx connects every part of the skull to the body in addition to optic nerves, arteries and other nerves... the spinal cord (which had a clean cut thru it despite no bullet coming close....  the image at the bottom illustrates what HUMES said the wounds looked like...

5a31b85799dce_f3withboswelldrawing.thumb.jpg.eb0d74cdbc4c26190b41058ffc3160fb.jpg

 

This is the result of HUMES' "surgery to the top of the head" ....  3 separate channels at three different elevations...

 

 

We found that the right cerebral hemisphere was markedly disrupted. There was a longitudinal laceration of the right hemisphere which was parasagittal in position. By the saggital plane, as you may know, is a plane in the midline which would divide the brain into right and left halves. This laceration was parasagittal. It was situated approximately 2.5 cm. to the right of the midline, and extended from the tip of occipital lobe, which is the posterior portion of the brain, to the tip of the frontal lobe which is the most anterior portion of the brain, and it extended from the top down to the substance of the brain a distance of approximately 5 or 6 cm.
The base of the laceration was situated approximately 4.5 cm. below the vertex in the white matter. By the vertex we mean--the highest point on the skull is referred to as the vertex.
The area in which the greatest loss of brain substance was particularly in the parietal lobe, which is the major portion of the right cerebral hemisphere.
The margins of this laceration at all points were jagged and irregular, with additional lacerations extending in varying directions and for varying distances from the main laceration.
In addition, there was a laceration of the corpus callosum which is a body of fibers which connects the two hemispheres of the brain to each other, which extended from the posterior to the anterior portion of this structure, that is the corpus callosum. Exposed in this laceration were portions of the ventricular system in which the spinal fluid normally is disposed within the brain.
When viewed from above the left cerebral hemisphere was intact. There was engorgement of blood vessels in the meninges covering the brain. We note that the gyri and sulci, which are the convolutions of the brain over the left hemisphere were of normal size and distribution.
Those on the right were too fragmented and distorted for satisfactory description.
When the brain was turned over and viewed from its basular or inferior aspect, there was found a longitudinal laceration of the mid-brain through the floor of the third ventricle, just behind the optic chiasma and the mammillary bodies.
This laceration partially communicates with an oblique 1.5 cm. tear through the left cerebral peduncle. This is a portion of the brain which connects the higher centers of the brain with the spinal cord which is more concerned with reflex actions.
There were irregular superficial lacerations over the basular or inferior aspects of the left temporal and frontal lobes. We interpret that these later contusions were brought about when the disruptive force of the injury pushed that portion of the brain against the relative intact skull.
This has been described as contre-coup injury in that location.
This, then, I believe, Mr. Specter, are the major points with regard to the President's head wound.

5a31bba233de0_Brainandskulldetail-IllustratedwoundsaccordingtoHUMES.thumb.jpg.92ff8fea44cfc896457d4e4c759cb84c.jpg

There was a special incision low in the back of the head to expose the EOP wound on the outer surface of the skull.

5 hours ago, David Josephs said:

 

On 12/6/2017 at 12:58 PM, Micah Mileto said:

From Dr. Pierre Finck's Clay Shaw trial testimony:

A: As I recall, the brain had been removed. Dr. Humes told me that to remove the brain he did not have to carry out the procedure you carry out when there is no wound in the skull. The wound was of such an extent, over five inches in diameter, that it was not of a great difficulty for him to remove this brain, and this is the best of my recollection. There were no removals of the wound of entry in the back of the eck, no removal of the wound of entry in the back of the head prior to my arrival, and I made a positive identification of both wounds of entry. At this time I might, for the sake of clarity, say that in the autopsy report we may have called the first wound the one in the head and the second wound the one in the neck, because we did not know the sequence of shots at that time. Again, the sequence of shots was determined by the Zapruder film, so what we did, we determined the entry of the bullet wound and stated that there were two bullet wounds, one in the back of the neck and the other in the back of the head, without giving a sequence. 

 

From the HSCA interview with Humes and Boswell:

 

Dr. PETTY. What is this opposite--oh, it must be, I can't read it--but up close to the tip of the ruler, there you are two centimeters down.

 

Dr. BOSWELL. It's the posterior-inferior margin of the lacerated scalp.

 

Dr. PETTY. That's the posterior-inferior margin of the lacerated scalp?

 

Dr. BOSWELL. It tore right down to that point. And then we just folded that back and this back and an interior flap forward and that exposed almost the entire--I guess we did have to dissect a little bit to get

 

Dr. HUMES. To get to this entrance, right?

 

Dr. BOSWELL. But not much, because this bone was all gone and actually the sinaller fragment fit this piece down here......

 

From Dr. Finck's interview with the HSCA:

 

Dr. PETTY. All right. Let me ask you one other question. In order to expose that area where the wound was present in the bone, did you have to or did someone have to dissect the I scalp off of the bone in order to show this?

Dr. FINCK. Yes.

Dr. PETTY. Was this a difficult dissection and did it go very low into the head so as to expose the external aspect of the posterior cranial fascia?

Dr. FINCK. I don't remember the difficulty involved in separating the scalp from the skull but this was done in order to have a clear view of the outside and inside to show the crater from the inside.

Dr. BADEN. Do you recall specifically that some dissection was done in the area?

Dr. FINCK. To free the skull from the scalp, to separate the scalp from the skull.

Dr. BADEN. Yes.

Dr. FINCK. Yes. I don't know who did that. I don't know the difficulty involved but the scalp is adherent to the skull and it had to be separated from it in order to show in the back of the head the wound in the bone. 

So we have a very good basis for believing that the scalp was reflected to the left, as is shown in the posterior interpretation of the skull photos. 

 

Edited by Micah Mileto

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3 hours ago, Micah Mileto said:

So the orientation is such, possibly even turned a bit more clock-wise....  and this image completely hides the right temple area where the entry was..

Micah read Speer's  quote and look at mine above. That hole is an exit. It's  physically impossible  to get an exit hole at the  top of the head.

You'd  have to take a pistol and aim it under his chin to get an exit hole that high up. Joseph's  photo is incorrect  and mine is correct.

Read Speers. The scalp peel back DID NOT follow standard operating  procedure in this case.

Watch the Z film. His body is thrown *backward* but his head DOES NOT pivot upward from a shot coming  out  of  the  TOP of his head.

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14 hours ago, David Josephs said:

5a3169478df2b_southknollshotsv2.thumb.jpg.ee59d20427da3cd6db103de78eb65cef.jpg

 

David Joseph's diagram is very helpful. The gray oval represents an extremely enlarged JFK head.

I believe this diagram proves that a shot from the north grassy knoll could not have entered the right temple and exited the right-rear of the head. Unless somehow the bullet changed course upon hitting the skull.

That doesn't necessarily mean that a shot from the north knoll did not also hit Kennedy.

 

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8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

The "mystery photo" was not taken at an angle. There is a jar on the table in the background that allows us to understand the orientation of the photo. This is shown below.

Lettherebelightgray.jpg

 

Pat,

Kudos to you for discovering that jar in the upper left corner of the photo. Because of that, we know the correct orientation of this photo, and that reflection of the scalp toward the face took place.

EDIT: Actually, the orientation depends on whether the head was face up at the time of the photo or was rotated one way or the other.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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10 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Here's my take:

rear+wound.jpg

The beveled hole is an outshoot so the entrance had to be either in the temple or forehead.  Dr. Chesser is saying the same thing based on his review of the X rays. I do have a hard time picturing still where the shot came from though.  Even if the line was straighter below, there's still an upward angle to it:

 

Michael,

I think your composite photo would have the glass jar Pat found tipped on its side.

 

Edited by Sandy Larsen

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20 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

Michael,

You composite photo would have the glass jar Pat found tipped on its side.

Sandy - this is a composite. If you take picture of a room with a chair in it, and then take another picture of the same room and chair but with a vase next to the chair, and then if you crop the vase out and crop the room out except for the chair, then overlay the cropped chair onto the photo of the room, it becomes two different photos of the same thing!

In other words, it doesn't matter what is around the open head photo - BOTH photos show the back of the head from the same approximate angle.  The difference is one shows the scalp covering the wound and the other shows what it looks like when the scalp has been peeled away over to the left. If you look in the open wound photo you can even see what appears to be a puncture in the scalp and fat with the hair plugged into it.  Now imagine laying that loose piece of skin back down over the open wound. Further, that punched out hole in the skull is beveled meaning an out shoot.

Now could this be a 1 in a million coincidence and that beveled punch out is instead an entrance wound from the rear?  Who knows. But at least from what I can see it looks like an out shoot. 

As Speers said, personnel said that standard autopsy procedure was not followed in this case. I've seen cutting open the head in autopsies on YouTube and in that one, yes, they followed procedure.  But not in this case due obviously because the head was so messed up.

Edited by Michael Walton

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8 hours ago, Pat Speer said:

One can disagree with Lifton's conclusions without stooping to such ridicule, MIchael.

This forum, at its best, is a place where people can discuss seemingly bizarre theories with respect for those holding those theories.

David Lifton has provided us with a number of informative posts in the past, and I suspect he will do so in the future. He's been at the middle of this stuff for 50 years now. We can learn from him.

Pat, I wanted to comment on your comment. You're right that David Lifton has been around for 50 years. But his basic premise - that some how, some way, while Kennedy's wife was with the coffin during the entire time from Dallas until you see her get off the plane with it, military and/or intelligence personnel squirreled the body away from the back of Air Force One, put it in a helicopter, and flew away with it so other military/intelligence/medico personnel could look at it and cover up all manner of conspiracy - is right up there with many of the other "out-there" theories that have been bandied about over the years.  One that comes to mind is the Hungarian boy who looked almost exactly like Oswald, his Mom looked exactly like Oswald's Mom (except she was short and dumpy and never smiled) and for 10 years before 11/22, these clones lived in each other's shadows until 11/22. And, oh yes, because the US Oswald had a mastoid operation, the secret agents performed one on the clone so they'd match up.

So IMO, it doesn't matter how long Lifton has been around, nor does it matter how long Armstrong has been around. And yes, maybe they spent years interviewing witnesses, collecting snatches of statements from these people. I'm not saying all of the statements are incorrect.  But to take a statement here and there and weave a story of body snatching and Oswald clones, at best, completely muddles the conspiracy record and, at worst, is dishonest to the Kennedy case.

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15 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

BEST EVIDENCE?! OMG that mad fairy tale of thrumming helicopters and mad scientists with scalpels at the ready to carve up the body?!

You've got to be kidding. I stopped believing that 30 years ago when I was 18 years old LOL 

Reaching new levels of idiocy...    48 years old and still playing the man-child fool...

Congrats - you've reached Craig Lamson and Paul May territory...

:up

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15 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

BEST EVIDENCE?! OMG that mad fairy tale of thrumming helicopters and mad scientists with scalpels at the ready to carve up the body?!

You've got to be kidding. I stopped believing that 30 years ago when I was 18 years old LOL 

 

Admiral Calvin Galloway himself admitted that there was a decoy ambulance, and in fact he drove it himself in a little chase scene, the one described by Lifton in Best Evidence.

Lieutenant Lipsey was told about the decoy. He was told that the purpose of it was to keep JFK's body away from the crowds.

If we are to believe these two men, then we also have to believe that somehow JFK's body WAS transferred to another casket, and that that casket was put in the decoy ambulance. Because what good would a decoy be if the body wasn't aboard it? (The official ornate casket stayed with Jackie and was in view of the public and the press the whole time after arriving at Andrews Air Force Base.)

But things like this don't matter to Michael Walton. Because his thought process works like this:  "This sounds silly, or I don't find it plausible. Therefore it didn't happened. Damn the evidence."

 

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Quote by Michael Walton.

 

"You're right that David Lifton has been around for 50 years. But his basic premise - that some how, some way, while Kennedy's wife was with the coffin during the entire time from Dallas until you see her get off the plane with it, military and/or intelligence personnel squirreled the body away from the back of Air Force One, put it in a helicopter, and flew away with it so other military/intelligence/medico personnel could look at it and cover up all manner of conspiracy - is right up there with many of the other "out-there" theories that have been bandied about over the years."

Seems you don't even know the basics, Michael. Jackie kennedy wasn't with the coffin the whole time on the plane. She left it to watch the swearing in of LBJ in the passenger compartment.

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On 12/14/2017 at 10:33 AM, Sandy Larsen said:

 

Admiral Calvin Galloway himself admitted that there was a decoy ambulance, and in fact he drove it himself in a little chase scene, the one described by Lifton in Best Evidence.

Lieutenant Lipsey was told about the decoy. He was told that the purpose of it was to keep JFK's body away from the crowds.

If we are to believe these two men, then we also have to believe that somehow JFK's body WAS transferred to another casket, and that that casket was put in the decoy ambulance. Because what good would a decoy be if the body wasn't aboard it? (The official ornate casket stayed with Jackie and was in view of the public and the press the whole time after arriving at Andrews Air Force Base.)

But things like this don't matter to Michael Walton. Because his thought process works like this:  "This sounds silly, or I don't find it plausible. Therefore it didn't happened. Damn the evidence."

 

Sandy,

What I am about to tell you is highly controversial because everyone has made up their mind on the headshot.  I am only going to tell you what I interpret from film and photographic evidence of that day.

1. The Mary Moreman photo shows two gunmen inside the pergola in Dealey Plaza. - 2D9692239-today-moorman-polaroid-jfk-ass

2. The Nix film shows two shots from the pergola with gun smoke.  You can view the Groden Nix Film here. 

 

3. The Zapruder film, in my opinion, shows a halo of blood at the back of JFK's head between Zapruder frames #225 #230 - z227.jpg

4. From the X-ray pictures of JFK autopsy, you can clearly see fracture lines showing a shot to the back of the head. - In my opinion, this bullet did not exit JFK.JFK-Xray-Lateral.jpg

5. A Nurse stated that there was a bullet lodged in JFK between his ears and shoulder. - http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/jfk-mystery-bullet-lodged-body-nurse-article-1.1512283

To summarize, JFK was shot in the back of the head at around ZFrame 227; That bullet did not exit JFK.  The shot at ZFrame 313 came from the pergola hitting JFK already fractured skull on the side of the head entering at a downward angle causing the tear and explosion of brain matter.  That bullet left a storm of particles and exited on the top of the skull after it ricochets upward.

I attached the x-ray with what I feel is the path of the bullet from the pergola.  The yellow donut shows a possible exit.  If you look at the Mary Moreman photo, you can see that JFK's head was tilted to the left right before the last headshot.

 

Sandy, from the merging of the two photographs, you can clearly see three exit holes at the top of JFK's skull; One big one and two smaller ones.  In the Zapruder film, you can actually see the trace of all three bullet fragments as they exit the top of JFK's head after Zframe 313.  You can also see the entry bullet from the side of his head.  It would be nice to align the autopsy photograph big exit hole with the x-ray image.

5a31b7b43da3d_f8relativetof7overlay-conf

JFK-Xray-Lateral.jpg

Edited by Keyvan Shahrdar

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The grid (area between the two upper photos)would be a likely location for a extant 313 shot. 

This area opens up the gap between Nellie and Jackie for a direct LOS to JFK.

39025712352_2795a83231_b.jpg

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2 hours ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Seems you don't even know the basics, Michael. Jackie kennedy wasn't with the coffin the whole time on the plane. She left it to watch the swearing in of LBJ in the passenger compartmen

So I guess they flew it from Dallas to DC in a copter Ray? Because  Lifton did say that it was flown away in a copter.

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