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James DiEugenio

When did the Coke Appear?

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On 12/27/2017 at 3:49 PM, Michael Walton said:

One thing that's on my mind about this and Ron Bulman did a nice job of bringing up is - if Baker was way back in the parade, it would have taken him a little bit more time to have arrived where he stopped, dismounted, and run over to go into the building as seen in the film.  Also, Truly seems to be just standing there as Baker runs by him so it's not like Truly suddenly starts galloping behind him.

With Ron's "30 seconds here and 20 seconds there" post above, could more time have elapsed than what the witnesses are stating?  Another thing too is people do misrememeber things.  For example, Truly said that he thought the car slowed down considerably at the corner to avoid the curb but if you watch the Towner and Bell films, both films prove him wrong (I know Chris D will disagree with me but that's on another thread to discuss).

I'm genuinely interested in this and am not agreeing nor disagreeing with anyone here.

Study all Truly's statements, interviews and films of him.

He distorts every detail, from limo turns to ceiling heights to stairway steps to timing to reasons for his actions, all to help prove Oswald guilty of a crime Lee could not and did not commit.

Only DVP would ask why Lee lied, when he was telling the truth, yet claim everyone else telling bold faced lies is credible as long as it implicates Lee.

So DVP thinks Truly and Baker wouldnt lie as they might be interviewed on television some time in the future... interesting concept, false but interesting.

They lied because they thought they were going to be rewarded, and never challenged. The movement of the vestibule encounter to an isolated second floor lunch area gave them insulation from inquiry.  But they were overheard on the day and papers published it. Bart and I found the accounts in newspapers that do not support the later version Truly and Baker told

Davey tries to dig his way out of a hole.

Baker never claimed to know which building he believed shots had eminated from. Claiming pigeons flying up behind them was his only clue.

He may have ran towards the Daltex first as he does not make for TSBD entrance but is aiming for corner of H and E.

No film shows Baker enter the TSBD, but does show him veering towards corner.

When getting off bike he hears radio reports ... does Baker use radio to call dispatch and get back up officers to join, or tell dispatch where he is and what he saw, and he is going in a building after a suspected gunman...

No.

Does he complete his building survey, Yes. Then he returns to motor and relays his info about the TSBD... NO!

AND THIS SHOULD STAND OUT LIKE A turd ON A CLEAN WHITE RUG!

He supposedly ran out and went on his merry way, never sharing his bit till his affidavit with Johnson?

Great police work?? , or like Baker's radio transmissions dead air?

My money is on latter

Truly sent the hounds after Lee, this after having just seen the boy by his own admission.

Truly was truly evil. But Davey will claim him a saint... typical rewrite of actual history.

Yet, only after Baker leaves is it that Oswald is a threat. So Truly immediately must get on phone to Aiken and quickly tells cops about a boy named Lee he just saw minute before but is missing, even though Truly makes no attempt to locate Lee. Truly could have used the buildings PUBLIC ADDRESS SYSTEM but did not. He sent the hounds.

The sham roll call was not to find Lee or see who was missing, but to collect names and addresses of those present for later interviews by DPD.

The coke is a joke.

...yes of course thirsty warehousemen swallow down dry cheese sandwiches without a drink .... passing up the soda machine on way down stairs only to choke down bread and cheese unaided.

Nah, as Lee related he got the soda to drink WITH lunch not after, during or some Von Penian belief, but before heading to domino room to eat and 'drink' ... what normal folk do at lunch.

David what do you do for lunch?

Cheers, Ed

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Incredible. Everybody's lying except the accused assassin. Right, Mr. LeDoux?

The fantasies that Internet CTers will buy into is mindboggling indeed.

Edited by David Von Pein

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I was always under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald's favorite soda was Dr. Pepper and that there was a machine in the building that had Dr. Pepper in it.  It isn't the same machine Lee was found standing in front of.  Since people are creatures of habit, it would seem strange that Lee decided on a Coke that day instead of a Dr. Pepper.

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5 minutes ago, Rich Pope said:

I was always under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald's favorite soda was Dr. Pepper and that there was a machine in the building that had Dr. Pepper in it.  It isn't the same machine Lee was found standing in front of.  Since people are creatures of habit, it would seem strange that Lee decided on a Coke that day instead of a Dr. Pepper.

Indeed, Rich....

http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/dr-pepper-talk.html

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3 hours ago, Ed LeDoux said:

Study all Truly's statements, interviews and films of him.

He distorts every detail, from limo turns to ceiling heights to stairway steps to timing to reasons for his actions, all to help prove Oswald guilty of a crime Lee could not and did not commit.

Only DVP would ask why Lee lied, when he was telling the truth, yet claim everyone else telling bold faced lies is credible as long as it implicates Lee.

So DVP thinks Truly and Baker wouldnt lie as they might be interviewed on television some time in the future... interesting concept, false but interesting.

They lied because they thought they were going to be rewarded, and never challenged. The movement of the vestibule encounter to an isolated second floor lunch area gave them insulation from inquiry.  But they were overheard on the day and papers published it. Bart and I found the accounts in newspapers that do not support the later version Truly and Baker told

Davey tries to dig his way out of a hole.

Baker never claimed to know which building he believed shots had eminated from. Claiming pigeons flying up behind them was his only clue.

He may have ran towards the Daltex first as he does not make for TSBD entrance but is aiming for corner of H and E.

No film shows Baker enter the TSBD, but does show him veering towards corner.

When getting off bike he hears radio reports ... does Baker use radio to call dispatch and get back up officers to join, or tell dispatch where he is and what he saw, and he is going in a building after a suspected gunman...

No.

Does he complete his building survey, Yes. Then he returns to motor and relays his info about the TSBD... NO!

AND THIS SHOULD STAND OUT LIKE A turd ON A CLEAN WHITE RUG!

He supposedly ran out and went on his merry way, never sharing his bit till his affidavit with Johnson?

Great police work?? , or like Baker's radio transmissions dead air?

My money is on latter

Truly sent the hounds after Lee, this after having just seen the boy by his own admission.

Truly was truly evil. But Davey will claim him a saint... typical rewrite of actual history.

Yet, only after Baker leaves is it that Oswald is a threat. So Truly immediately must get on phone to Aiken and quickly tells cops about a boy named Lee he just saw minute before but is missing, even though Truly makes no attempt to locate Lee. Truly could have used the buildings PUBLIC ADDRESS SYSTEM but did not. He sent the hounds.

The sham roll call was not to find Lee or see who was missing, but to collect names and addresses of those present for later interviews by DPD.

The coke is a joke.

...yes of course thirsty warehousemen swallow down dry cheese sandwiches without a drink .... passing up the soda machine on way down stairs only to choke down bread and cheese unaided.

Nah, as Lee related he got the soda to drink WITH lunch not after, during or some Von Penian belief, but before heading to domino room to eat and 'drink' ... what normal folk do at lunch.

David what do you do for lunch?

Cheers, Ed

Ed, it's probably there in Prayerman, Bart's paper or Sean's posts but I never caught that Baker never reported his run up the stairs with Truly to anyone before his affidavit.  That IS a Big Stinking Turd.   He was in and out of the building before/without encountering any other officers?  If he walked past any others he didn't stop and say, I checked the roof?  Much less a guy on the third or fourth floor in a brown coat, or, a guy in the lunch room close to the coke machine?  If he encountered other officers why would he not stop and assist further with the investigation as he initiated it?  It doesn't make sense.  He was gone before any other officers arrived?   He just got back on his bike and took off?  He could have at least radioed in and said hey the TSBD's clear, I checked it.

Unfortunately this bit makes me wonder about a thought I had a year or two back based on Oswald didn't shoot anybody, he was out front with Shelly, and the lunchroom encounter never happened.  Was it supposed to?  I know this will bring DVP screaming bloody murder.  He's right, it's speculation.  But so is the official Warren Omission story, created to accommodate the circumstances and allow Hoover to say We have Our Man that day.

People have speculated that Tippit  was hunting Oswald, out of his assigned patrol area, based on the lightning fast inaccurate description of him, confronted him and Oswald shot him, taking time for a coup de grace and to reload as he walked away.  Others have speculated he was supposed to kill Oswald but failed and was himself killed to draw attention to a Cop killer on the loose.

Is it possible Baker was supposed to kill Oswald in the TSBD but failed, thus his quick exit and silence?  Maybe there was supposed to be an encounter in the lunchroom that never happened?  Oswald was supposed to be there but wised up?  A contact didn't show and he didn't stick around?

TSBD official Occhus Campbell saw him in a cleaning or supply room under the stairs by the first floor entrance on his way back in.  Was Ozzie hiding in plain site in the aftermath, knowing he had to get out of there?  Just speculating, somewhat legitimately based.  Maybe.  Searching for the answer to a crime can include brainstorming.  According to at least one investigator I've read.

BTW, I don't think the witnesses were expecting remuneration for their testimony.  They were threatened.  Evidence of intimidation is widespread if you look around.  

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Posted (edited)
On 12/30/2017 at 4:48 PM, David Von Pein said:

Incredible. Everybody's lying except the accused assassin. Right, Mr. LeDoux?

The fantasies that Internet CTers will buy into is mindboggling indeed.

 

You do realize you are irrational in boxing all "CTers" in together yes? Why don't we stop the labels and go for a more scholarly or professional approach?. At best, you should have said "some of those that I've observed who believe there was a conspiracy" your label is absolutely insufficient David. At the end of the day there are many fantasies that those who believe LHO did it and that there were others buy into much fantasy unfortunately but not merely those who espouse conspiracy in the plot to kill JFK.

 

On 12/19/2017 at 3:38 AM, Bart Kamp said:

Pointing you all to Sean Murphy's observations regarding Fritz's handwritten notes. The comparison between the FBI documents is there as well.

As far as I am concerned, you guys are the absolute source on that encounter and I lean towards much of the official record not being concrete as once believed. DVP simply (and unfortunately) refuses to consider any possible scenario other than LHO acting alone/official narrative which is just sad when it comes to the quest for the truth but I digress and one thing that the Ed. Forum needs is certainly no more of that (digression from topic).

Edited by B. A. Copeland

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2 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said:

You do realize you are irrational in boxing all "CTers" in together yes?

I didn't box all CTers together. That's why I said "Internet CTers".

There's a huge difference between "regular CTers" and "Internet CTers". The level of "fantasy" engaged in by Internet CTers is much higher than that of "ordinary (non-Internet) conspiracists". (With the "Oswald Never Owned The Rifle" fantasy that nearly all Internet CTers believe in being a prime example.)

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Doesn't anyone find it odd that the President of the United States is driving right in front of your building and you are not outside with everyone else watching or taking pictures?

I'm sorry but this simply doesn't make sense.  And according to Marina Oswald, her husband admired Kennedy.  He liked his policies.  I truly believe that Prayer Man is Oswald taking pictures with his Imperial Reflex camera.  

If you aren't willing to go that far, then may Oswald was eating his favorite lunch (a cheese sandwich) and watching the parade from just outside the door.    

I find it difficult to believe that Oswald was on the first floor and didn't buy is all-time favorite soda, Dr. Pepper and came to the second floor to buy a Coke.  The only reason he would do this would be if the Dr. Pepper machine wasn't working or was out of Dr. Pepper.

 

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On 1/8/2018 at 4:51 PM, David Von Pein said:

I didn't box all CTers together. That's why I said "Internet CTers".

There's a huge difference between "regular CTers" and "Internet CTers". The level of "fantasy" engaged in by Internet CTers is much higher than that of "ordinary (non-Internet) conspiracists". (With the "Oswald Never Owned The Rifle" fantasy that nearly all Internet CTers believe in being a prime example.)

I am not sure we have solid proof LHO ordered any rifle from Kline's but I digress. I guess I do understand your angle. Do you believe that LHO was most likely impersonated in any way and at any point in time before 11/22/1963?

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3 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said:

Do you believe that LHO was most likely impersonated in any way and at any point in time before 11/22/1963?

Absolutely not.

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1 hour ago, David Von Pein said:

Absolutely not.

Not even the Mexico City phone calls? The FBI said it wasn't or did not sound like LHO, etc.

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On ‎12‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 7:31 PM, Rich Pope said:

I was always under the impression that Lee Harvey Oswald's favorite soda was Dr. Pepper and that there was a machine in the building that had Dr. Pepper in it.  It isn't the same machine Lee was found standing in front of.  Since people are creatures of habit, it would seem strange that Lee decided on a Coke that day instead of a Dr. Pepper.

Nothing personal Rich but I thought I'd read years ago of Dr. Pepper being introduced as a distraction/disinformation and discredited. That it was a non entity, never existed.  Maybe a creation of Operation Mockingbird.

But then, Dr. my Pepper, look what I found from recent history.

 It was a Bugliosi claim?

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