The H&L "two schools at the same time" mystery

[Sandy Larsen]

23 hours ago, Michael Walton said:

Obviously you don't want to actually debate the clearly farcical story that is Hardly Lee.  So I'll put this summary of the tale here again and then feel free to address all of the points I've made here:

• That a boy was snatched off the streets of Hungary because secret agents thought he looked exactly like Oswald
• That this boy's mother, also from Hungary, looked exactly like LHO's Mom, except she was frumpy and never smiled and had a unibrow
• That when LHO had his mastoid, the secret agents hurriedly also did a mastoid on the Hungarian boy because, you know, they're clones
• That for 10 whole years before 11/22/63, these two clones were practically living in each other's shadows for some as yet unknown secret mission
• That matching pictures of the one and only LHO do NOT match per Team Hardly because, you know, CONTRAST
• That LHO had shoulders that did not slope while the clone LHO had sloping shoulders
• That the clone was murdered by Ruby on Sunday and the other one escaped never to be heard from again
• That when the body was exhumed, they switched skulls because, you know, they had the other skull on ice waiting for the exhumation to take place 20 years after the fact

So we await that you address everything here.  And I mean everything - even perhaps, as mentioned above, how the secret agents totally lucked out and found, among millions of refugees in Hungary, the exact clone of the US born Oswald. And whose Mother also looked exactly like the US born Oswald's Mom.

 

One thing at a time, Michael. You said:

"The school records as well as all the rest have all been debunked Sandy."

Tell me in what way the school records issue has been debunked.

The truth is, you have no idea. I've asked you many times and you just ignore me. Yet you continue to claim that the school record thing has been debunked.

 

Quote

And by the way, your "buddy" Tom Graves who seems to have been either booted off here or just got tired of EF, also knew the whole Hardly story is a fairy tale.  Simply go to the "Gems" thread (which he started) for more.

 

You and Tommy (and Lance and Bernie) share the same character flaw. You first decide what you want to believe, and then -- regardless of the evidence -- you make fun of those who believe differently. You high-five those who do the same thing. You claim that things you disagree with have been debunked when in fact they have not.

Shame on you both for doing that.

But by all means, anybody reading this, go to the "Gems" thread for more. You will see that it is no different than any of the other H&L threads. With Jim Hargrove presenting evidence while his detractors claim he is wrong, usually without providing any meaningful counter evidence or argument of their own.

 

Edited December 30, 2017 by Sandy Larsen

[Michael Walton]

2 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That a boy was snatched off the streets of Hungary because secret agents thought he looked exactly like Oswald

I'll get you started.  The above card of the house of cards Hardly story  is the genesis of the Hardly story.  And no one in Team Hardly has anything to prove this ever happened.  Ever. So with that said, you can't even build your house of cards Hardly story...because it doesn't even exist.

And please don't post snatches of "testimony" from people who made their claims 40 years after the fact. That'd be about as factual as you stating you saw what appeared to be a gun in one of the old guys' hand in the Nix film - remember that one?

[Jim Hargrove]

Oh, brother, is Mr. Walton really as dumb as he appears to be, or is he deliberately misrepresenting the H&L evidence?  Neither I nor John has ever indicated that there was anything other than a POSSIBILITY that the Russian-speaking Oswald had Hungarian parents.  That POSSIBILITY is based on the following FBI document (emphasis added):

URGENT 11-30-63 7-37 PM EST MB
TO DIRECTOR, AND SACS DALLAS AND NEW YORK
FROM SAC, NEW HAVEN /100-18158/
NEW YORK VIA WASHINGTON
LEE HARVEY OSWALD, IS - R
ON NOV. THIRTY INSTANT, JACK D. TIPPIT, SELF EMPLOYED
CARTOONIST FOR NATIONAL MAGAZINES AND WIFE, ONE SIX FOUR
NEW TOWN TURNPIKE, WESTPORT, CONN., ADVISED AS FOLLOWS. AT
APPROXIMATELY ELEVEN THIRTY AM ON INSTANT DATE MRS. TIPPIT
RECEIVED A TELEPHONE CALL FROM UNKNOWN WOMAN WHO ASKED IF
MR. TIPPIT WAS A POLICEMAN AND IF HE WAS RELATED TO THE POLICE-
MAN TIPPIT WHO WAS SHOT IN DALLAS. MRS. TIPPIT REPLIED HER
HUSBAND WAS NOT A POLICEMAN, WAS DISTANTLY RELATED TO OFFICER
TIPPIT AND ASKED IDENTITY OF CALLER. ON ANOTHER EXTENSION
JACK TIPPIT LISTENED TO BALANCE OF PHONE CALL. THE WOMAN SAID
SHE COULD NOT GIVE HER NAME AS SHE WAS AFRAID OF BEING KILLED,
THAT SHE WAS FROM NEW YORK AND HAD TO COME "HERE" TO MAKE THE
CALL SO THAT SHE COULD NOT BE TRACED AS SHE WAS IN FEAR OF HER
END PAGE ONE

PAGE TWO:

LIFE. THE WOMAN REQUESTED THAT NOTHING BE SAID TO THE PRESS
ABOUT A WOMAN CALLING AS THEY WOULD KNOW HER IDENTITY AND SHE
WOULD BE KILLED.
THE WOMAN SAID SHE KNEW OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE WHO
WERE HUNGARIANS AND COMMUNISTS. THE WOMAN CONTINUED THAT
OSWALD-S FATHER AND UNCLE HAD LIVED AT SEVENTY SEVENTH AND SECOND
AVENUE, YORKVILLE, NYC, THAT WHILE LIVING THERE BOTH WERE
UNEMPLOYED, GOT THEIR MONEY FROM COMMUNISTS AND SPENT ALL THERE
TIME IN COMMUNIST ACTIVITIES.
THE WOMAN THEN BEGAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY, DISJOINTEDLY,
AND NERVOUSLY. SHE STATED SHE HAD TWO NAMES TO GIVE AND
MENTIONED THE NAME EMILE KARDOS AND SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A
BROTHER IN LAW. WHEN MRS. TIPPIT TRIED TO FIND OUT WHOSE
BROTHER IN LAW THE WOMAN KEPT REPEATING THE WORD BROTHER IN LAW.
THE WOMAN STATED KARDOS IS HEAD OF THE COMMUNISTS AND THAT THIS
GROUP IN NEW YORK NOW HAS CHARTS AND MAPS. THE WOMAN SAID
SOMETHING ABOUT WEINSTOCK THE EDITOR OF QUOTE WOMAN-S WORLD
UNQUOTE BUT DID NOT GIVE FURTHER DETAILS. THE WOMAN SAID THE
END PAGE TWO

PAGE THREE:

GROUP IN NEW YORK PLANS TO TAKE OVER THE GOVERNMENT, THAT OF
COURSE THEY WOULD DENY THIS BUT SHE KNEW IT TO BE TRUE.
SHE THEN HUNG UP ABRUPTLY. THE WOMAN NEVER GAVE ANY REASON
FOR HER CALL WHICH SOUNDED LOCAL. MRS. TIPPIT THOUGHT THE
WOMAN HAD AN AUSTRIAN OR GERMAN ACCENT WHILE MR. TIPPIT
BELIEVED IT WAS SPANISH. BOTH FELT THE WOMAN SOUNDED LIKE
A MATURE ADULT AND DID NOT HAVE A YOUTHFUL VOICE.
MR. TIPPIT EXPLAINED WOMAN MAY HAVE OBTAINED HIS IDENTITY
FROM AN ARTICLE ON PAGE ONE OF NORWALK, CONN. QUOTE HOUR
UNQUOTE FOR NOVEMBER TWENTYFIVE LAST, WHICH STATED THAT WE MAY
BE A DISTANT RELATIVE OF THE DALLAS POLICEMAN. TIPPIT SAID
ARTICLE RESULTED FROM TELEPHONE CALL FROM REPORTER WHO WAS
CHECKING ALL TIPPITS IN LOCAL TELEPHONE DIRECTORIES.
BUREAU REQUESTED TO COORDINATE ABOVE WITH ANY OTHER
INFORMATION TO DETERMINE IF PERTINENT AS NEW HAVEN HAS NO
KNOWLEDGE OF THE RESIDENCE AND ASSOCIATES OF OSWALD-S FATHER
AND UNCLE.

END AND ACK PLS
7-45 PM OK FBI WA LLD FOR RELAY
6-47 PM CST OK FBI DL FL
TU PLSDISC M
CC-MR_ROSEN

[Jim Hargrove]

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

One thing at a time, Michael. You said:

"The school records as well as all the rest have all been debunked Sandy."

Tell me in what way the school records issue has been debunked.

The truth is, you have no idea. I've asked you many time and you just ignore me. Yet you continue to claim that she school record thing has been debunked.

 

I guess Michael has shown, like all the other H&L critics, that he simply cannot "debunk" the school record evidence.  Notice how everyone in this thread wants to talk about anything except the subject of this thread?  Once more, here are the two conflicting records.  They show that "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended school for essentially the entire fall semester of the 1953-54 school year in both New York City and New Orleans.  

 

 

Who can "debunk" this by clearly stating their case here, on the JFK Assassination Debate forum?

 

[Sandy Larsen]

46 minutes ago, Michael Walton said:

3 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

That a boy was snatched off the streets of Hungary because secret agents thought he looked exactly like Oswald

I'll get you started.  The above card of the house of cards Hardly story  is the genesis of the Hardly story.  And no one in Team Hardly has anything to prove this ever happened.  Ever. So with that said, you can't even build your house of cards Hardly story...because it doesn't even exist.

And please don't post snatches of "testimony" from people who made their claims 40 years after the fact. That'd be about as factual as you stating you saw what appeared to be a gun in one of the old guys' hand in the Nix film - remember that one?

I never wrote what Michael Walton has quoted me saying. What I've highlighted in red.

 

[W. Tracy Parnell]

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, brother, is Mr. Walton really as dumb as he appears to be,

This seems uncalled for.

[Sandy Larsen]

6 minutes ago, W. Tracy Parnell said:

2 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

Oh, brother, is Mr. Walton really as dumb as he appears to be,

This seems uncalled for.

 

I don't think so. This is very dumb:

"That a boy was snatched off the streets of Hungary because secret agents thought he looked exactly like Oswald."

And he says it as though it is something we actually believe.

 

[Michael Clark]

9 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said:

 

I don't think so. This is very dumb:

"That a boy was snatched off the streets of Hungary because secret agents thought he looked exactly like Oswald."

And he says it as though it is something we actually believe.

 

He's not dumb. He is seeking negative attention after failing to to get the positive attention that he sought prior to the beginning of this year, on this forum. His posts were ignored; he is hurt, he gave up, and now he seeks attention in a way that is harder to ignore; by misrepresenting, mocking and ridiculing others, individually and as groups. Negative attention seeking behaviors are common among children,  and also adults with emotional disturbances.

Edited December 30, 2017 by Michael Clark

[James DiEugenio]

9 hours ago, David Von Pein said:

I'll just keep asking this very good question....which Jimmy will probably continue to ignore....

"...somebody please tell me why the police decided to "plant" a bullet that was so mutilated that no ballistics expert would testify that CE573 was THE EXACT BULLET that was involved in the Walker shooting?"

You cannot be serious can you?

 

 

[Michael Walton]

So it looks like Team Hardly is possibly/maybe taking a step back from the precipice? You'll probably say "well, it says 'possibly' as we don't know for sure..." but if Team Hardly says that, then that will certainly put some doubt in the entire Hardly fantasy story. In other words, if you have doubt where the Russian speaking boy is from, then you really don't know enough to even make the house-of-cards story ring true.

From the home page of Team Hardly's site:

JFK researcher John Armstrong has shown how the the Federal Bureau of Investigation handed the Warren Commission a fable for public consumption about the Central Intelligence Agency's "Oswald Project."  The fictional portrait of "Lee Harvey Oswald" that finally appeared in the Warren Commission Report combined the biographies of two young people, Russian-speaking HARVEY Oswald and American-born LEE Oswald.  The Russian speaking youth, possibly of Hungarian parents, was brought to the U.S. following World War II and given the name HARVEY Oswald. HARVEY was of small stature, quiet, slightly malnourished, and lived with a short, heavy-set Marguerite Oswald impostor who never smiled. New Orleans born LEE Oswald was tall, husky, and athletic. As a youth LEE lived with half-brother John Pic, brother Robert Oswald, and his tall, nice-looking mother, Marguerite Claverie Oswald. A program created by US intelligence merged the identities of Russian-speaking HARVEY and American-born LEE Oswald. The result, ten years later, was that young Russian-speaking HARVEY had an American background and birth certificate. HARVEY was an ideal candidate to “defect” to the Soviet Union and work as an undercover agent who secretly understood Russian. HARVEY “defected” and two years later returned to America with a Russian wife and child. A year later this former “defector” was handing out literature in support of Castro and Cuba. Unknown to HARVEY, he had become the ideal candidate to frame for the assassination of President Kennedy. And also unknown to HARVEY were the activities of LEE Oswald in the summer and fall of 1963, when LEE was impersonating HARVEY and helping to set up HARVEY as the accused assassin of President Kennedy.

[Michael Walton]

4 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said:

I never wrote what Michael Walton has quoted me saying. What I've highlighted in red.

Sandy - that's not the point.  The point is the basic premise of the Hardly story is there was a clone from Hungary who secret agents found and because he looked exactly like LHO, they brought him over to the US to live in LHO's shadows ten who years before 11/22/63.

That's the whole basic foundation of this house-of-cards story. If you or other Team Hardly members can prove this basic premise, then the house-of-cards story is true.

But you can't. So therefore, all of the school records in the world is still not going to make the Hardly Lee story come true.  Because it's not.

[James DiEugenio]

Mike:

When you write "Sandy Larsen said"  and then you print a sentence below that, then you are quoting him.

But if he did not say that, then you should not have posted it that way.

 

[Paul Trejo]

I, for one, welcome David Von Pein to this thread.

For one thing, LNers are a welcome relief from the 50-year nonsense of the CIA-did-it CTers, who can't create a decent argument after a half-century.

For another thing, it is important that the shooting at General Walker on April 10, 1963 by Lee Harvey Oswald and one other person must be raised again and again, to show the plausibility of the Walker shooting reports, and to show the weakness of the CIA-did-it CTers on the topic of General Walker.  They'd rather just evade the whole topic -- and it shows.

Yet I will disagree this far with David -- just because Lee Harvey Oswald took a pot-shot at General Walker, is not sufficient proof to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK.  It's just insufficient evidence, period.

It is a fact that Oswald was on a team to try to shoot Walker.  There were at least two persons on that team (and probably a few others in the conspiracy).  We know this from eye-witnesses, and General Walker himself was always on the alert for the second shooter, who got away, he was convinced.

We don't know if Lee Harvey Oswald was the shooter, however, since there were two men at Walker's backyard fence, and there were no eye-witnesses to the shooting itself (only the running back to their car, their car scurrying away).

Consider this -- the LNers think that Lee Harvey Oswald could have killed JFK in a moving limo from the TSBD 6th floor -- a super shooter -- and yet Lee Harvey Oswald MISSED General Walker -- sitting still -- from a fraction of the distance?

No -- the Radical Right in Dallas -- including the Dallas Police -- killed JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald.   That's what the final evidence will finally show.  But the ridiculous CIA-did-it CT's that continue to rise after 54 years -- they deserve all the mockery that they get.   I'm always ready to encourage that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 30, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Paul Trejo]

6 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said:

...Once more, here are the two conflicting records.  They show that "Lee Harvey Oswald" attended school for essentially the entire fall semester of the 1953-54 school year in both New York City and New Orleans.  

 

 

Who can "debunk" this by clearly stating their case here, on the JFK Assassination Debate forum?

 

Jim,

I've already debunked this -- but you didn't listen.

That second document has a field labeled, "Originally Admitted',' and has a DATE.   That field is the DATE that Lee Harvey Oswald was "Originally Admitted" to the Beauregard Public Junior High School.   That DATE given is January 13, 1954.

To an unbiased reader, that means that Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't registered at Beauregard Public School for the first semester.  He spent that semester at some other school.   Not Beauregard.  Young Oswald started this second semester at Beauregard.

But you have refused to admit this simple fact.   Based on your biased refusal, the rest of the evidence just flies right over your head.

So -- why bother arguing with you?   Your mind is made up.  It's much more interesting to engage with David Von Pein against James DiEugenio.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited December 30, 2017 by Paul Trejo

[Michael Clark]

18 minutes ago, Paul Trejo said:

I, for one, welcome David Von Pein to this thread.

For one thing, LNers are a welcome relief from the 50-year nonsense of the CIA-did-it CTers, who can't create a decent argument after a half-century.

For another thing, it is important that the shooting at General Walker on April 10, 1963 by Lee Harvey Oswald and one other person must be raised again and again, to show the plausibility of the Walker shooting reports, and to show the weakness of the CIA-did-it CTers on the topic of General Walker.  They'd rather just evade the whole topic -- and it shows.

Yet I will disagree this far with David -- just because Lee Harvey Oswald took a pot-shot at General Walker, is not sufficient proof to conclude that Lee Harvey Oswald assassinated JFK.  It's just insufficient evidence, period.

It is a fact that Oswald was on a team to try to shoot Walker.  There were at least two persons on that team (and probably a few others in the conspiracy).  We know this from eye-witnesses, and General Walker himself was always on the alert for the second shooter, who got away, he was convinced.

We don't know if Lee Harvey Oswald was the shooter, however, since there were two men at Walker's backyard fence, and there were no eye-witnesses to the shooting itself (only the running back to their car, their car scurrying away).

Consider this -- the LNers think that Lee Harvey Oswald could have killed JFK in a moving limo from the TSBD 6th floor -- a super shooter -- and yet Lee Harvey Oswald MISSED General Walker -- sitting still -- from a fraction of the distance?

No -- the Radical Right in Dallas -- including the Dallas Police -- killed JFK and Lee Harvey Oswald.   That's what the final evidence will finally show.  But the ridiculous CIA-did-it CT's that continue to rise after 54 years -- they deserve all the mockery that they get.   I'm always ready to encourage that.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

... quoted prior to upcoming edits

Edited December 30, 2017 by Michael Clark