David Von Pein Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 (edited) Bernie Laverick said: I was merely pointing out how [the] H&L gang have no qualms about siding with LNs and will cherry pick at will from the WC when it suits their ends. As you do. Everybody "cherry picks", Bernie. You (no doubt) do it. I do it. All CTers on the planet do it. All God's children do it. In fact, it SHOULD be done. Otherwise, I'd have no choice but to treat all of the junk presented by conspiracy theorists (including the rabid "H&L gang") as worthy of EQUAL consideration. (Does it count as "cherry picking" if I'm "picking" out the FACTS and the LIKELY TRUTH?) Edited December 31, 2017 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 Lest anyone think that I too am wearing a tinfoil beanie, I will interrupt my departure just long enough to post this ACTUAL 1953/1954 SCHOOL CALENDAR, which happens to be from a Bradford, Pennsylvania newspaper and which I chose because it is unusually detailed. It covers the entire school system, including junior high (also known as middle school). It depicts EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING, to wit: A school year extending from September to June, divided into five grading periods of approximately six weeks each, with a report card being sent home at the end of each grading period. This is EXACTLY how the Arizona schools I attended from 1956 to 1968 operated. There are no "semesters," "fall terms" or whatever. Most of these school calendars are found in old newspapers. I have found similar 1953/1954 examples from New York, but not as detailed as the Pennsylvania example. I have found NO - NADA, ZILCH - examples of the way the H&L zealots insist P.S. 44 and Beauregard Junior High operated in 1953/1954. I'm not insisting they didn't operate differently. I am saying, "Show me they did, by something more authoritative than your opinion, which I am admittedly predisposed to regard as wacky because your underlying theory is wacky." (I am willing to go out on a limb and bet that Sandy's description of the convoluted way P.S. 44 supposedly operated in 1953/1954 and what the P.S. 44 records supposedly show is a complete fantasy.) In any event, here is the 1953/1954 Pennsylvania school calendar: The 1953-54 school calendar is as follows: Sept. 8 - School opens for faculty. 9 - School opens for students. Oct. 20 - First period ends. 27 - Report cards sent home. Nov. 25 to 30 - Thanksgiving vacation. Dec. 3 - Second period ends. 10 - Report cards sent home. 23 - Christmas vacation begins. Jan. 4 - Christmas vacation ends. 25 - Third period ends. Feb. 1 - Report cards sent home. 5 - Spring vacation begins. March 2 - School reopens. 10 - Fourth period ends. 17 - Report cards sent home. April 15 - Easter vacation begins. 26 - School reopens. 29 - Fifth period ends. May 6 - Report cards sent home. 31 - School closed for Memorial Day. June 11 - Close of school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted December 31, 2017 Share Posted December 31, 2017 1 hour ago, David Von Pein said: Everybody "cherry picks", Bernie. You (no doubt) do it. I do it. All CTers on the planet do it. All God's children do it. In fact, it SHOULD be done. Otherwise, I'd have no choice but to treat all of the junk presented by conspiracy theorists (including the rabid "H&L gang") as worthy of EQUAL consideration. (Does it count as "cherry picking" if I'm "picking" out the FACTS and the LIKELY TRUTH?) Exactly. I think Jean Davison hit the nail on the head as to how conspiracy theorists operate. In Conspiracy Logic, there is never a simple human mistake. if three eyewitnesses give the police three slightly different descriptions of the car and driver in an incident of hit-and-run, it's never that two of them (or perhaps all three) are simply mistaken. No, the incident must have been a hit-and-run conspiracy involving three cars and three drivers. If the police merely arrest one person, there are still two conspirators at large. If the person arrested and his vehicle don't exactly match any of the witnesses' description, he is obviously a patsy and the police themselves are now involved in a cover-up conspiracy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, Lance Payette said: Lest anyone think that I too am wearing a tinfoil beanie, I will interrupt my departure just long enough to post this ACTUAL 1953/1954 SCHOOL CALENDAR, which happens to be from a Bradford, Pennsylvania newspaper and which I chose because it is unusually detailed. It covers the entire school system, including junior high (also known as middle school). It depicts EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN DESCRIBING, to wit: A school year extending from September to June, divided into five grading periods of approximately six weeks each, with a report card being sent home at the end of each grading period. This is EXACTLY how the Arizona schools I attended from 1956 to 1968 operated. There are no "semesters," "fall terms" or whatever. Most of these school calendars are found in old newspapers. I have found similar 1953/1954 examples from New York, but not as detailed as the Pennsylvania example. I have found NO - NADA, ZILCH - examples of the way the H&L zealots insist P.S. 44 and Beauregard Junior High operated in 1953/1954. I'm not insisting they didn't operate differently. I am saying, "Show me they did, by something more authoritative than your opinion, which I am admittedly predisposed to regard as wacky because your underlying theory is wacky." (I am willing to go out on a limb and bet that Sandy's description of the convoluted way P.S. 44 supposedly operated in 1953/1954 and what the P.S. 44 records supposedly show is a complete fantasy.) In any event, here is the 1953/1954 Pennsylvania school calendar: The 1953-54 school calendar is as follows: Sept. 8 - School opens for faculty. 9 - School opens for students. Oct. 20 - First period ends. 27 - Report cards sent home. Nov. 25 to 30 - Thanksgiving vacation. Dec. 3 - Second period ends. 10 - Report cards sent home. 23 - Christmas vacation begins. Jan. 4 - Christmas vacation ends. 25 - Third period ends. Feb. 1 - Report cards sent home. 5 - Spring vacation begins. March 2 - School reopens. 10 - Fourth period ends. 17 - Report cards sent home. April 15 - Easter vacation begins. 26 - School reopens. 29 - Fifth period ends. May 6 - Report cards sent home. 31 - School closed for Memorial Day. June 11 - Close of school. Seriously dude, something is wrong with your brain. You absolutely refuse to believe what is right in front of your own eyes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Sandy: 1 + 1 = 2 Lance: What authority says that? Sandy: It's common knowledge. Lance: I've never heard such a thing. My experience is that 1 + 1 + 1 +1 + 1 = 5 Sandy: But it's right here on the record. it says 1 + 1 = 2 Lance: I won't believe it till you have an authority verify your claim. Sandy: I learned how to add in kindergarten. Everybody knows how to add. And it's right here on the record for anyone to see... 1 + 1 = 2 Lance: Ha! I just found it! See, right here in Pennsylvania it is 1 + 1 + 1 +1 + 1 = 5. I will go out on a limb and say that your interpretation is fantasy. Sandy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Lance Payette said: ...Jean Davison hit the nail on the head as to how conspiracy theorists operate... Jean always hits the nail squarely on the head. I've yet to see her miss the nail. Here are a few of the miscellaneous "Common Sense" quotations (including some from Jean) that I have collected over the last several years relating to the JFK and J.D. Tippit murder cases [hundreds more can be found here]...."The argument that Oswald was the tool of a high-level conspiracy does seem plausible, until one tries to fit it into the context these theorists always leave out -- the personality and background of Lee Harvey Oswald, the individual." [...]"The reader [of pro-conspiracy books] will understand the difficulty these writers have sidestepped if he or she tries to invent a story that explains why an INNOCENT Oswald went to Irving for 'curtain rods', left his wedding ring behind the next morning, brought a package into the Depository, and so on. Because the evidence against Oswald is strong, any detailed reconstruction that argues a frame-up will inevitably sound less plausible than one that argues his guilt." [...]"The conspiracists' methods produce a surreal world. Every discrepancy is interpreted as a crack in the official stone wall through which one may glimpse the ugly truth of what happened. Behind the wall are disconnected scenes, each with its own set of conspirators. On close examination, many of these scenes evaporate." -- Jean Davison; Pages 25, 276, and 277 of "Oswald's Game" ~~~~~~~~~~"We already knew that ["Harvey And Lee" author John] Armstrong threw out logic and reason long ago with respect to his [double Oswald] fairy tale, but at least he had his insanity to fall back on. The fairy tale loses even its “internal logic” insanity when he asserts that the CIA got someone to impersonate Marguerite who looked nothing like her. How much longer do we have to wait for Armstrong to inform us that it was a Kennedy imposter who was assassinated? For those conspiracy theorists who feel I haven’t “done justice” to Armstrong by not mentioning every matter, issue, or witness Armstrong cited in his nearly one-thousand-page book--to do so would almost take a book in itself--if justice is giving something its due, the only justice for Armstrong’s book is to put it in a trash can. Every word I wrote about this freaky book is one more word than Armstrong and his theory deserve. Here’s a book that at worst doesn’t deserve First Amendment protections (I’m being facetious) and at best is merely fun and games. And yet, Walt Brown, a serious student of the assassination, while noting a few of the book’s absurdities, gives it a positive review in his publication, JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly, saying it is “required reading.” When someone of Brown’s stature in the conspiracy community tells his readers to go out and “get the book and set aside...everything you previously read about what happened in Dealey Plaza on November 22, 1963” (JFK/Deep Politics Quarterly, April 2004, pp.3–10), he is doing nothing more than encouraging other Armstrongs to go off on similar delirious odysseys into the twilight zone." -- Vincent Bugliosi; Page 578 of "Reclaiming History" (Endnotes) ~~~~~~~~~~"Any assassins who would have needed only Oswald fingered for the two murders on 11/22/63 must have all (to a man!) been under the influence of large quantities of hallucinogenic drugs when they decided to place a variety of different shooters throughout Dealey Plaza (and on 10th Street for Tippit's killing), as many CTers advocate. And these powerful drugs they must have been on I guess must have had a crazy type of "Miracles Are Possible" effect on all of the shooters and behind-the-scenes schemers -- because only a "miracle" could have rescued such an inane multi-shooter "Patsy" plan from certain failure on that 22nd day of November back in '63." -- David Von Pein; April 7, 2006 ~~~~~~~~~~"The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit is if the following idiotic situation occurred (which nobody could possibly even begin to believe happened on November 22, 1963): Somebody other than Lee Oswald shoots Tippit with Oswald's revolver. This "non-Oswald" shooter (who looks just exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald, but really isn't him) then flees the scene of the Tippit crime, dumping four shells on the ground as he runs away. This non-Oswald shooter then meets up with the real Lee Oswald and hands off the Tippit murder weapon to LHO. Oswald then proceeds to the Texas Theater where he is arrested while in possession of the gun that somebody else used to kill Officer Tippit just 35 minutes earlier." -- David Von Pein; June 4, 2013 ~~~~~~~~~~"When kooks look at the evidence, anything involving Oswald's culpability is "almost, but not quite". He can almost make this shot, but not quite. He can almost make it downstairs from the 6th floor in time to encounter Baker, but not quite. He can almost make it to 10th & Patton from the boardinghouse in time to shoot Tippit, but not quite. So close, but yet so far, as kooks judge things." -- Bud [Usenet Newsgroup Participant]; June 18, 2006 ~~~~~~~~~~"Now we've got kooks claiming the unfired bullets in Oswald's pants pocket were "planted". And for what possible purpose again? Oh yes, I forgot---the patsy framers got bored and decided to plant needless and useless unfired bullets in Oswald's trousers. Incredible." -- David Von Pein; August 6, 2015 ~~~~~~~~~~"If there is a suspicious fire, the kooks would investigate the firemen who respond, and ignore the guy with the wicked grin that smells of gasoline." -- Bud; November 22, 2007 Edited January 1, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
W. Tracy Parnell Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 8 hours ago, Lance Payette said: No, the burden of proof is on the proponents of the wacky theory, not on those who regard the wacky with skepticism. I know how the game works: The proponents of the wacky theory will never initiate the steps that would definitively prove or disprove their wacky theory. Because at some level they know their theory is wacky, and because they derive a certain level of enjoyment from reveling in their wackiness with their fellow true believers, their goal is always to preserve the "mystery." This is exactly what myself and other H&L critics have been saying for some time. If you truly believed you held the "key" to the JFK case, wouldn't you seek out an investigative journalist or a private investigator (or both) to help prove the theory and bring this story to the masses? But as you say, the H&L gang merely soldiers on, accepting new adherents (such as Sandy) here and there while the majority of serious researchers (including those of the conspiracy variety) doubt their findings. Of course, Armstrong talked to journalist Nick Patoski who was less than impressed with the overall theory although he was open to the Frank Kudlaty story because he knew him. So, it went nowhere and that is why they don't repeat the exercise. That and all of the media are allegedly "in on the plot." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, David Von Pein said: So, Mary Bledsoe was wrong? And what about this bus transfer, Paul? You must think it's a fake, right?.... David, I admit that the bus ticket is real -- however, I also believe that the testimony claiming that it was found inside the pocket of Lee Harvey Oswald was a DELIBERATE FALSEHOOD. And, yes, I believe that Mrs. Bledsoe's testimony was a case of "mistaken identity," from start to finish. The Dallas Police (who claimed the valid bus ticket came from the pocket of Lee Harvey Oswald) found her error useful, so they kept it and promoted it. It falls like a house of cards. HAPPY NEW YEAR! --Paul Trejo Edited January 1, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, David Von Pein said: Bernie, Please give me your opinion as to WHY ON EARTH the cops felt ANY NEED to plant the paper bus transfer on Lee Oswald's person. (Or did they merely just SAY they "found" it in LHO's pocket, but didn't physically "plant" it on his person?) There was NO logical reason for the police to want to say that LHO rode on a bus for a few blocks on Elm Street. None whatsoever. The cab ride with Whaley could have easily sufficed for the "evil" DPD purposes. So what was the point of that ruse, Bernie? Just to play some games? Even Oswald admitted he took the bus. But he saw the need to lie about it too, right? Or you probably think LHO never said a word about taking a bus. It was FRITZ who just made that up. Correct? This kind of "IT NEVER HAPPENED" nonsense that you believe, Bernie, makes you almost as ridiculous as the H&L fantasists. David, I'll chime in with Bernie here. The Dallas Police had a very good reason to DELIBERATELY LIE that they found this valid bus ticket in the pocket of Lee Harvey Oswald; namely, to CONCEAL THE FACT that Lee Harvey Oswald had traveled with ACCOMPLICES. They knew very well who the ACCOMPLICES were, in fact -- because some of them were compromised Dallas Police. I give you author Walt Brown's book, Treachery in Dallas (1995) on this topic. To protect these Radical Right, Dallas Police conspirators, Lee Harvey Oswald had to be a LONE Shooter -- so he could never be a passenger in a car -- EVER. That is why they had to forge the fake bus trip, and fake taxi trip of Oswald from Dealey Plaza back to his rooming house in Oak Cliff. (In exactly the same way, Mexican Immigration records show that Lee Harvey Oswald entered and exited Mexico as a passenger in a car, but the Warren Commission struggled to place Oswald in a bus to and from Mexico. Have you eve read the testimony of those Mexico City bus passengers? They fall apart like a house of cards.) One only needs to read the WC testimony of Dallas Deputy Roger Craig -- that he saw Lee Harvey Oswald escape Dealey Plaza as a passenger in a car. Why believe the neurotic Bledsoe over a Dallas Deputy? IMHO, only because of the LONE Shooter bias. HAPPY NEW YEAR! --Paul Trejo Edited January 1, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 On 12/30/2017 at 7:27 PM, Jim Hargrove said: Of course you do. You believe the Warren Report. Nice quote, Jim H. Team Hardly NEVER believes anything about the Warren Report EXCEPT when it suits the Team Hardly story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 13 hours ago, Sandy Larsen said: You're right, there is no mystery. The fact that there were two Oswalds explains it. Yep, sounds about right coming from Sandy just like he thought it was a fact he saw one of the old guys holding a gun down by the steps during the shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 12 hours ago, Lance Payette said: And your credentials are ...?) Lance, Sandy's credentials are that he repaired the old tube TVs years ago and he's extraordinarily keen at performing extraordinary troubleshooting of things including this case. One of his abilities was he saw one of the old guys down on the knoll holding a black object/gun. When I called him out on it, he switched tactics and said he was joking. Another ability was that he said that when you throw a baseball from right field to home plate, in order for it to land in the catcher's mitt with no bounce you have to throw it the equivalent of something like 200 feet in the air for it to take place that way. When I explained that I played ball up to my third year in college and that you do NOT have to do that, he simply refused to believe it because his intelligence level and keen analytical abilities were far superior to this old ex-ball player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Paul Trejo said: To protect these Radical Right, Dallas Police conspirators, Lee Harvey Oswald had to be a LONE Shooter -- so he could never be a passenger in a car -- EVER. That is why they had to forge the fake bus trip, and fake taxi trip of Oswald from Dealey Plaza back to his rooming house in Oak Cliff. Why the need to fake BOTH a bus ride AND a cab ride? It's silly beyond belief (as usual with CTers). And I suppose Bill Whaley's positive I.D. of Oswald was a lie too, right? And Whaley's testimony about his passenger wearing a silver bracelet on his left wrist must be a lie too---or an amazing coincidence, huh? (See pic below.) And Oswald (or Fritz) lied too when Oz admitted he took a cab to his roominghouse on 11/22, eh? This case has more liars than the TV game show "To Tell The Truth". Edited January 1, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Walton Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 4 hours ago, W. Tracy Parnell said: This is exactly what myself and other H&L critics have been saying for some time. If you truly believed you held the "key" to the JFK case, wouldn't you seek out an investigative journalist or a private investigator (or both) to help prove the theory and bring this story to the masses? But as you say, the H&L gang merely soldiers on, accepting new adherents (such as Sandy) here and there while the majority of serious researchers (including those of the conspiracy variety) doubt their findings. Of course, Armstrong talked to journalist Nick Patoski who was less than impressed with the overall theory although he was open to the Frank Kudlaty story because he knew him. So, it went nowhere and that is why they don't repeat the exercise. That and all of the media are allegedly "in on the plot." I mentioned this recently as well. They said no mainstream outlet would want to hear anything they have to say. I then mentioned Consortium - DiEugenio has been published there. Go there. Present the case. It's not MSM but it's a start. Crickets chirp...not a word from them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, Michael Walton said: Lance, Sandy's credentials are that he repaired the old tube TVs years ago... The first tube TV I repaired was in 5th grade. Then in 8th grade I got a part time job fixing both tube and transistor TVs (and radios, stereos, etc.). My boss didn't understand transistor circuits, so I worked on all of those. Made $12 per hour, or $83 per hour in today's dollars. Not bad for a 14 year old. And my boss got a lot of fishing in. But the big highlight for me was when my boss took me on my first in-home repair. I was surprised because I wouldn't be getting my drivers license for a couple years. But he insisted and so we went and I fixed this elderly man's television in his home and took his transistor set to the shop to fix later. On our way to the shop my boss asked me how it felt to have fixed the television of the man who invented television. I was surprised and a little shy. Truth is, I figured that every state probably had an inventor who was involved in creating the first electronic television system. (The earliest televisions were mechanical.) So I didn't think much of it. Then five or ten years ago I recalled the incident and checked it out. As it turns out, my boss was right. Philo Farnsworth, a resident of Provo at the time, had invented the modern electronic television system when he was 15 years old. So, because of my awesome boss, I was honored with being the 14 year-old boy who repaired the televisions of the man who invented television at age 14! Unlike other inventors of the era, Farnsworth didn't become famous due to legal battles over patent rights that went on for over a decade. Edited January 1, 2018 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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