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I agree with Paul. Baker's infertile imagination  got her started with this story she wrote and we never heard of her until 30 years after the fact.

She gave LHO cancer cells to take with him to MC? Please.

But like a lot of other outlandish theories there are plenty of suckers out there who buy into any too good to be true JFK stories.

As for Rich Pope I'm  still trying to figure out where he's  going here on EF. For one, anyone with a cursory knowledge of this case  knows Files was as much a charlaten as Baker. So Pope didn't prove anything.

But knowing how he goes here, he'll  now say he's  nothing but a sweet young man only here to learn and how dare I  call him out on this :)

 

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1 hour ago, Michael Walton said:

Pope didn't prove anything.

He sure didn't. And the last four paragraphs of this post authored by Rich Pope are riddled with so many wrong theories, it would take all day to straighten out the facts from his fiction.

Edited by David Von Pein

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10 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Paul,

It is well documented that Lee Oswald got on a bus, received a transfer, and then took a taxi to his boarding house.  You don't get to brush that away so easily either.

You are brushing away three witnesses when you dabble in that kind of arbitrary  behavior.  You brush aside the testimony of Oswald's former landlord who was on the bus and recognized him, the bus driver who gave the transfer, and the taxi driver.  All because it doesn't fit your narrative.

On another interesting note...I believe that Prayer Man is Lee Oswald taking pictures with his Imperial Reflex camera.  Bear in mind that it took 7 minutes for the police (as a whole) to focus their attention on the TSBD.  At first, police were rushing up the hill towards the picket fence of the grassy knoll because that is where everyone was pointing.

Lee, standing in the second floor lunch room buying a Coke is odd because Lee only drank Dr. Pepper and that machine was on the first floor.  Another odd thing is although the Carcano (car-kuh-no) was found on the 6th floor, along with 3 shell casings, no clip was ever found.  No screwdriver was found for those who claim he assembled his rifle and no, you cannot assemble that rifle using a dime.

As far as Judyth Vary Baker is concerned, her and Oswald's stint at Reily Coffee Company was simply a cover job. For the most part, I agree that Judyth and Lee didn't have much time for a full-blown affair.  Except for one time when Anna Lewis, the former wife of one David Lewis, confirms Judyth’s claim that she and Lee went on several dates with Anna and David.

Another interesting thing is where was Lee Oswald headed after leaving the boarding house.  In my book, I list all the safe houses in Oak Cliff.  He may have even been headed for Jack Ruby's apartment.  However, he didn't shoot Tippit.  

"Lee, standing in the second floor lunch room buying a coke is odd because Lee only drank Dr. Pepper and that machine was on the first floor".   Can I have some of your drugs?  Mescaline, peyote, mushrooms or even LSD never tripped me out that bad.  This statement totally discredits just about anything on this thread.   People try to seriously discuss this?   No he didn't shoot Tippitt.

 https://www.amazon.com/Into-Nightmare-Killers-President-Kennedy/dp/1939795257/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1515642943&sr=1-1&keywords=into+the+nightmare+joseph+mcbride

Edited by Ron Bulman

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21 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Paul,

It is well documented that Lee Oswald got on a bus, received a transfer, and then took a taxi to his boarding house.  You don't get to brush that away so easily either.

You are brushing away three witnesses when you dabble in that kind of arbitrary  behavior. 

You brush aside the testimony of Oswald's former landlord who was on the bus and recognized him, the bus driver who gave the transfer, and the taxi driver.  All because it doesn't fit your narrative....

Rich,

When this thread began I explained that it is NOT WELL DOCUMENTED that Lee Harvey Oswald "got on a bus, received a transfer, and then took a taxi to his boarding house."

I don't brush that WC testimony away -- I ARGUE THE CASE.   I am not being arbitrary, or dabbling -- I am being sincere and serious when I claim that these three WC witnesses were victims of "mistaken identity" episodes.

It's not only because it doesn't fit my narrative -- and actually, my Walker-did-it CT does not care if these three WC witnesses were right or wrong.   I came to this realization very late in my CT, when reviewing the  WC testimony of these three witnesses:  (1) Cecil McWatters, the bus driver; (2) Mary Bledsoe, the bus passenger; and (3) William Whaley, the taxi driver.

These three WC witnesses comprise ALL of the eye-witnesses who claim to have seen Lee Harvey Oswald take a bus, then a taxi to his rooming house.   Their WC testimony falls apart like a house of cards.  I have already shared part of the testimony of Cecil McWatters, but let's review it again:

Mr. BALL - You said there was one man who closely resembled in height, weight and color? 
Mr. McWATTERS - That is right. 
Mr. BALL - Do you know who that was? 
Mr. McWATTERS - Just like I told them, I didn't know who was who or anything. 
Mr. BALL - Did you ever learn who that person was? 
Mr. McWATTERS - Well, I don't know whether that was really the man or not, I don't know. 

That is self-explanatory, since he cancels his own testimony.   So, one down, and two to go.   I have already shared part of the testimony of William Whaley, but let's review it again:

Mr. BALL. Did you notice how he was dressed? 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir. I didn't pay much attention to it right then. But it all came back when I really found out who I had.
...
Mr. BALL. Later that day did you...you called down to the police department? 
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir. 
Mr. BALL. Were you the next day? 
Mr. WHALEY. No, sir; they came and got me, sir, the next day after I told my superior when I saw in the paper his picture.   I told my superiors that that had been my passenger that day at noon.  They called up the police and they came up and got me. 
Mr. BALL. When you saw in the newspaper the picture of the man? 
Mr. WHALEY. Yes, sir.
... 
Mr. BALL. Did he look dirty? 
Mr. WHALEY. He looked like his clothes had been slept in, sir, but he wasn't actually dirty.  The T-shirt was a little soiled around the collar but the bottom part of it was white. You have to know those winos, or they will get in and ride with you and there isn't nothing you can do but call the police, the city gets the fine and you get nothing. 

William Whaley, the next day, after seeing Oswald's photo in the newspaper, decided that his passenger must have been Lee Harvey Oswald.  Yet his description of Oswald stumbles around -- like any case of "mistaken identity."    So, two down, and one to go.   I have not yet shared part of the testimony of Mary Bledsoe.  Here it is:

Mr. BALL - All right, now, tell me what happened? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - And, after we got past Akard, at Murphy -- I figured it out. Let's see. I don't know for sure. Oswald got on.
He looks like a maniac. His sleeve was out here [indicating]. His shirt was undone. 
Mr. BALL - Did he have anything on. Was the shirt open or was it buttoned? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE -
Yes; all the buttons torn off. 
Mr. BALL - What did he have on underneath that? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - I don't know. 
... 
Mr. BALL - Now, you say the motorman said something? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - Motorman said. "Well, the President has been shot"... we all got to talking about four of us sitting around talking, and Oswald was sitting back there, and one of them said, "Hope they don't shoot us," and I said, "I don't believe that -- it is -- I don't believe it. Somebody just said that.  And it was too crowded, you see, and Oswald had got off. 
Mr. BALL - Did you ever see the motorman give him a transfer? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't pay any attention but I believe he did. 
Mr. BALL - Well, what do you mean -- you believe he did? ...
Are you telling me something you read in the newspapers? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I don't remember. I don't remember. 
Mr. BALL - Did you pay any attention at that time as to whether he did, or did not get a transfer? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE -
I didn't pay any attention to him. 
Mr. BALL - Well, did you look at him as he got off the bus? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I sure didn't. I didn't want to know him. 
... 
Mr. BALL -
You didn't look very carefully, did you? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I just glanced at him, and then looked the other way and I hoped he didn't see me.  I was worried about trying to get off... 
Mr. BALL - Do you remember whether it was a regular bus stop or not? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - No; I didn't pay any attention. 
...
Mr. BALL - When did you first notify the police that you believe you'd seen Oswald? 
Mrs. BLEDSOE - When I got home, first thing I did I went next door and told them the President had been shot, and he said, "Why, he has got killed." Well, I turned on the radio--television--and we heard ambulances and going around and there was a little boy came in that room in the back and he turned it on, and we listened and hear about the President, only one I was interested in, so, he went on back to work
and they kept talking about this boy Oswald and had on a brown shirt, and all of a sudden, well, I declare, I believe that this was this boy, and his name was Oswald -- that is -- give me his right name, you know, and so, about an hour my son came home, and I told him and he immediately called the police and told them, because we wanted to do all we could, and so, I went down the next night. He took me down, and I made a statement to them, what kind of---Secret Service man or something down there. 

So, Rich, I don't brush her WC testimony aside -- it brushes itself aside.  Mary Bledsoe was hysterical and a victim of a "mistaken identity" episode.   She contradicts herself.  First, she says that Oswald looked like a maniac, with the buttons torn off his shirt.   Yet she then admitted that she can't remember the details. 

Earlier in her testimony she admitted that it was Oswald's name on TV that triggered her claim that she had seen Lee Harvey Oswald on the bus.  Earlier in her testimony, which I regard as largely truthful (though with some fantasy) she tells of Lee Harvey Oswald spending a brief time in her rooming house, and she admitted that they did not get along, so she tossed him out after a couple of weeks, and there was a tiff.   Yet she remembered the name more than the face.      

Now, these are the ONLY eye-witnesses we have to the claim that Lee Harvey Oswald "got on a bus, received a transfer, and then took a taxi to his boarding house."   Their testimony is so weak that I question their motives; they seem so intellectually weak that they could be easily manipulated by anybody in the DPD who wanted to make a case that Oswald acted ALONE with no ACCOMPLICES who could drive him in a car. 

For the Dallas Police, it was three against one -- these three crackpots against Dallas Deputy Roger Craig -- the only Dallas Deputy who was fired for daring to speak with Penn Jones Jr. and Mark Lane.   The Dallas Police, the FBI and the WC all believed these three crackpots.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

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Ron,

Not at all.  People are creatures of habit.  I once heard a Lutheran pastor say he was giving up Dr. Pepper for Lent.  Which I thought was a little silly until I actually stopped and payed attention to people who are Dr. Pepper fanatics.  Sure, if there isn't any Dr. Pepper handy they might drink a Coke but only if there's no other choice.  When my older brother was a teenager, he threw newspapers for The Dallas Times Herald.  Part of the reward system for getting new subscribers were cases of Dr. Pepper.  It was ridiculous.  My brother's entire room was stacked with cases of the stuff and he even went so far as to buy a mini-frig to keep some nice and cold whenever a craving hit.  

I'm assuming that by providing me an Amazon link to a book you would like for me to purchase it and read it.  Thank you very much for the link.  I have purchased it and when it arrives and I can read it, I'll let you know what I think. Since I'm satisfied with my research on the assassination and the murder of JD Tippit, I'm now moving onto learning as much as I can about the Mafia aspect of the case.  I'm interested in each of the players, what their function was and how they died; ie Johnny Roselli is a gruesome example.

Just as an update, Amazon had only 1 copy left and it cost me $169.00 for a paperback.  This should indicate to you that I'm pretty serious about the topic we are discussing or else I wouldn't have invested the money in the book you recommended.

Edited by Rich Pope

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Paul,

I appreciate you reviewing your thoughts with me concerning the three witnesses.  I also know that people who are in fear for their safety and maybe their lives, will say just about anything; even develop a foggy memory.  Lee Bowers, whom I consider to be a solid witness even confessed that there were some things he wanted to tell the government officials who interviewed him, but he was too afraid to.  I can even use my own father as an example.  Before the assassination, my father was a silly fun-loving guy who loved to make people laugh.  Even though I wasn't born then, he had an 8 millimeter camera for home movies and I watched them many, many times.  After the assassination my father changed dramatically.  He was very stoic, quiet and didn't fool around anymore.  He would tell us over and over again, "Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut."  That was his mantra.  And I grew to understand why.  He knew everything about what happened and he knew that if he said anything, either he or his family would be put at risk.  So, ask a taxi driver one day if he remembers driving Lee Oswald home and he would admit he did.  Then some unfriendly guys from the government show-up and suddenly the taxi driver changes his tune.  We have seen this time and again concerning witnesses in JFK's murder.  It is interesting.  For someone who doesn't trust the WC report, you sure like to pull things out from it to prove your point.  I call it proof-texting.

Edited by Rich Pope

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Michael,

I absolutely proved that James Files is a con-artist.  The shell casings that were found with teeth marks show that those rounds were manufactured after the year 1971.  The very fact that TWO shell casings proves Files a xxxx because Files claims he only shot one round.  In addition, telephone records show Files was in Chicago on the day of the assassination, not anywhere near Dallas.  The serial number on his Remington XP-100 Fireball showed a manufacturer's date well after the year 1963.  Files claims that he and Oswald made sure ALL of the weapons were in good working order before the assassination and we know that the Carcano was not in proper working order.  The scope wasn't zeroed at all.  The FBI had to put shims under it to get it to be somewhat accurate for their tests.

So who was James Files?  He was just a punk kid who did odd jobs for the mob.  If I were to compare it to a restaurant, Files would be the dishwasher.  Everything he claimed in his interviews and his book is information already public.  So he's just a guy who has read a lot of stuff and has woven a nice yarn for people.  He's out of prison btw and hasn't said anything.  No interviews, no Sunday morning talk shows...Nothing.  He is as quiet as a mouse.  

Since the House Committee on Assassinations said there was a probability there was a conspiracy, Files is smart enough to keep his mouth shut.  We can't do anything about Oswald but if the FBI wanted to, they could charge Files as a conspirator.  My advice to Files is to keep laying low and stop bragging that you shot JFK.  You might end-up in the electric chair.  There's no statute of limitations for murder.

 

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I didn't "extol" the video.  In fact, there are errors in that video.  You guys like to paint a negative picture and put words in the mouths of people to discredit them.  I enjoyed Star Wars too but I don't think it's true.  I recommend it for entertainment value but that's about it.  

Besides, I've complimented you guys.  You've done a lot of research and pretty much have most of it figured out.  You shouldn't take that in a bad light.  It's a good thing.  You should be proud of yourselves.  So, some of you should write a book if you haven't already done so and let the world know what your theories are.  You might make enough money to buy a pizza and a six-pack of beer.

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8 hours ago, Rich Pope said:

Ron,

Not at all.  People are creatures of habit.  I once heard a Lutheran pastor say he was giving up Dr. Pepper for Lent.  Which I thought was a little silly until I actually stopped and payed attention to people who are Dr. Pepper fanatics.  Sure, if there isn't any Dr. Pepper handy they might drink a Coke but only if there's no other choice.  When my older brother was a teenager, he threw newspapers for The Dallas Times Herald.  Part of the reward system for getting new subscribers were cases of Dr. Pepper.  It was ridiculous.  My brother's entire room was stacked with cases of the stuff and he even went so far as to buy a mini-frig to keep some nice and cold whenever a craving hit.  

I'm assuming that by providing me an Amazon link to a book you would like for me to purchase it and read it.  Thank you very much for the link.  I have purchased it and when it arrives and I can read it, I'll let you know what I think. Since I'm satisfied with my research on the assassination and the murder of JD Tippit, I'm now moving onto learning as much as I can about the Mafia aspect of the case.  I'm interested in each of the players, what their function was and how they died; ie Johnny Roselli is a gruesome example.

Just as an update, Amazon had only 1 copy left and it cost me $169.00 for a paperback.  This should indicate to you that I'm pretty serious about the topic we are discussing or else I wouldn't have invested the money in the book you recommended.

I didn't look at the current price when I posted the link.  The price stuns me.  The current price of $316 stuns me more.  The list on my copy is 38.50.  I paid 20-30 when it came out on Amazon five years ago on the 50th in 2013.  Was there never a second printing even?  It is an important work and should be available at a more reasonable price for the public.  Maybe mockingbird bought up all available copies or the rights.  Mr. McBride has commented here several times, at least once in the last few months if I remember.  Maybe he could enlighten us.

If you're going to look into the Mafia and Roselli in particular figure out why he was on a fishing trip off the coast of Florida with Bill Harvey in the late spring of 1963.      

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On ‎1‎/‎11‎/‎2018 at 12:00 PM, Rich Pope said:

Paul,

I appreciate you reviewing your thoughts with me concerning the three witnesses.  I also know that people who are in fear for their safety and maybe their lives, will say just about anything; even develop a foggy memory.  Lee Bowers, whom I consider to be a solid witness even confessed that there were some things he wanted to tell the government officials who interviewed him, but he was too afraid to. 

I can even use my own father as an example.  Before the assassination, my father was a silly fun-loving guy who loved to make people laugh.  Even though I wasn't born then, he had an 8 millimeter camera for home movies and I watched them many, many times.  After the assassination my father changed dramatically.  He was very stoic, quiet and didn't fool around anymore.  He would tell us over and over again, "Keep your eyes and ears open and your mouth shut."  That was his mantra.  And I grew to understand why. 

He knew everything about what happened and he knew that if he said anything, either he or his family would be put at risk. 

So, ask a taxi driver one day if he remembers driving Lee Oswald home and he would admit he did.  Then some unfriendly guys from the government show-up and suddenly the taxi driver changes his tune.  We have seen this time and again concerning witnesses in JFK's murder.  It is interesting. 

For someone who doesn't trust the WC report, you sure like to pull things out from it to prove your point.  I call it proof-texting.

Rich,

You say that your father knew everything about what happened -- I presume you are speaking of the JFK Assassination.   What was his vantage point?  Was he an eye-witness at the Grassy Knoll?   Did he work for the Dallas Police or the Dallas Sheriff's office?   How would he know what some members of the Warren Commission couldn't know?

Also, I answered your question about what I trust and what I don't trust in the Warren Report, with a long answer early in this thread.   In that post I said I believe about 95% of the Warren Commission testimony -- and I disbelieve the 5% given by most of the Dallas Police and Deputies, as well as by the Dallas Radical Right.

My criticisms of McWatters, Bledsoe and Whaley remain consistent with my acceptance of 95% of the Warren Commission volumes.   So, it's not proof-texting.  It's carefully thought out.  Their testimony, IMHO, was manipulated by the Dallas Police (as were the Oswald lineups).

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

Edited by Paul Trejo
typos

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Paul,

Thanks for the questions and your explanation about the WC. 

My father's vantage point was listening into phone conversations between LBJ and Edward A. Clark, as well as LBJ and J. Edgar Hoover.  There are other conversations with different people as well.  Because my father oversaw the installation of the telephony equipment at LBJ's Ranch in Johnson City, Texas, it was his job to make sure the system was highly secure and working properly.  

The only thing I'm not sure about is....was my father just curious or was he asked by someone in the government to listen in and then report what he heard.

Something very odd was after my father died and we started going through his things we found all sorts of stuff.  For example, the combination on his brief case was 007.  He had a stock certificate in a frame hanging on the wall when Southwestern Bell became a stand-alone company after Divestiture.  He had stock number 007.  Not stock number 001, or 002 like you would imagine.  

And even though he had several firearms, his favorite was a Walther PPK.  I'm sure you recognize this as the famed handgun of James Bond.  

Paul, you really would have liked my father.  You're both very intelligent and you probably could have spent hours talking about the assassination and comparing notes.

Rich

 

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Okay...My copy of "Into the Nightmare" by Joseph McBride just arrived today.  I guess I didn't realize this book is 675 pages long.  It will be a while before I can comment on it.  

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