Roscoe White

[Denny Zartman]

This is a fascinating discussion. I wish I had more to contribute, but I appreciate everyone's posts.

I can't argue with the logic that an assassin dressed as a police officer is a perfect disguise for a public, broad daylight escape. It seems that few people, bystanders or police, would question why a police officer would be there on the scene. We know from testimony and films that policemen went rushing to the grassy knoll. Hell, a policeman/assassin could literally take any accomplices by the arm and tell fellow officers that he was putting them "under arrest" when he was actually helping them get away.

I genuinely don't know how to evaluate the credibility of Gordon Arnold and Beverly Oliver. I tend to set them aside when going over witness testimony.

But, setting those two and everything else aside, I still can't get away from two seemingly inarguable facts: 1. Roscoe White, with no prior or post law enforcement experience, joined the force less than two months before the assassination - and a week before Oswald got his job at the TSBD. 2. Roscoe White, even though a rookie that hadn't attended the police academy, had a uniform and was in a position to handle critical evidence in the JFK assassination.

In my opinion, fact #1 is strong circumstantial evidence that both White and Oswald were placed in their positions by the same larger force.

And in the case of #2, the value of a man on the inside of the police department evidence room would seem to be obvious value to conspirators.

[Paul Trejo]

On ‎1‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 10:24 AM, Denny Zartman said:

This is a fascinating discussion. I wish I had more to contribute, but I appreciate everyone's posts.

I can't argue with the logic that an assassin dressed as a police officer is a perfect disguise for a public, broad daylight escape. It seems that few people, bystanders or police, would question why a police officer would be there on the scene. We know from testimony and films that policemen went rushing to the grassy knoll. Hell, a policeman/assassin could literally take any accomplices by the arm and tell fellow officers that he was putting them "under arrest" when he was actually helping them get away.

I genuinely don't know how to evaluate the credibility of Gordon Arnold and Beverly Oliver. I tend to set them aside when going over witness testimony.

But, setting those two and everything else aside, I still can't get away from two seemingly inarguable facts: 1. Roscoe White, with no prior or post law enforcement experience, joined the force less than two months before the assassination - and a week before Oswald got his job at the TSBD. 2. Roscoe White, even though a rookie that hadn't attended the police academy, had a uniform and was in a position to handle critical evidence in the JFK assassination.

In my opinion, fact #1 is strong circumstantial evidence that both White and Oswald were placed in their positions by the same larger force.

And in the case of #2, the value of a man on the inside of the police department evidence room would seem to be obvious value to conspirators.

Denny,

Yes, and yes again.   Also add to your list that #3, Roscoe White had in his family's possession a copy of an Oswald Backyard Photograph that the Warren Commission never saw.    It's eerie.

Regards,
--Paul Trejo

[Chuck Schwartz]

There could be a new book coming out on Roscoe White.  

[Chuck Schwartz]

Here are some data points on Roscoe White....https://spartacus-educational.com/JFKwhiteR.htm

[Chuck Schwartz]

The name of the book is "Admitted Assassin". 

[Michael Crane]

On 1/28/2018 at 8:24 AM, Denny Zartman said:

But, setting those two and everything else aside, I still can't get away from two seemingly inarguable facts: 1. Roscoe White, with no prior or post law enforcement experience, joined the force less than two months before the assassination - and a week before Oswald got his job at the TSBD.

Roscoe got his job in some type of photography capacity.

There was also a Secret Secret agent that did some tackling on a black gentleman back there behind the Grassy Knoll.

Edited February 19 by Michael Crane

[Ron Bulman]

2 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

The name of the book is "Admitted Assassin". 

Thanks Chuck, I've always respected your posts and found them insightful.  Roscoe White made me think, huh?  

J. Gary Shaw of Cleburne Texas, Brian Edwards, and Dr. Marcades, Roses's son, gave me pause.  They are all respected researchers.

ADMITTED ASSASSIN | Peniel Unlimited LLC

[Chris Bristow]

Michael Brownlow has a several part interview with Hargis on Youtube. In one of those Hargis said that when he arrived at the wall on the knoll(I assume he meant the patio wall.) He ran into Roscoe White. He said neither he nor White could tell where the shots had come from.  Hargis arrived on the knoll less than 25 seconds after the headshot. How did Roscoe White get there so quickly?
 Is there any other documentation about White being in the plaza? If he was on the knoll in 25 seconds then where did he come from? He is not found in any of the films so if he was near the Knoll he must have been in the parking lot or just behind the colonnade or on the Elm St extension or behind the TSBD.

[Joe Bauer]

On 2/19/2024 at 12:57 AM, Chris Bristow said:

Michael Brownlow has a several part interview with Hargis on Youtube. In one of those Hargis said that when he arrived at the wall on the knoll(I assume he meant the patio wall.) He ran into Roscoe White. He said neither he nor White could tell where the shots had come from.  Hargis arrived on the knoll less than 25 seconds after the headshot. How did Roscoe White get there so quickly?
 Is there any other documentation about White being in the plaza? If he was on the knoll in 25 seconds then where did he come from? He is not found in any of the films so if he was near the Knoll he must have been in the parking lot or just behind the colonnade or on the Elm St extension or behind the TSBD.

If true it is a huge revelation.

A two month duty Dallas PD employee ( with no police academy training and assigned to the identification bureau ) is in Dealey Plaza and chasing supposed suspects up into the knoll area within 25 seconds after the JFK head shot?

Ridiculous.

I've always believed the Roscoe White story is truly a majorly important one in the JFKA affair.

 

Edited February 20 by Joe Bauer

[Chuck Schwartz]

Ron, I have not read the book yet.  So, I am witholding my conclusion on this subject.  But, it is odd how LHO ended up with a job  in 1963 on the JFK route  and Roscoe White ends up with a job in the Dallas Police in 1963. And the connections between LHO and Roscoe White in the Military are also quite coincedental.  I don't believe in coincidences .

[Chris Bristow]

19 hours ago, Joe Bauer said:

If true it is a huge revelation.

A two month duty Dallas PD employee ( with no police academy training and assigned to the evidence department ) is in Dealey Plaza and chasing supposed suspects up into the knoll area within 25 seconds after the JFK head shot?

Ridiculous.

I've always believed the Roscoe White story is truly a majorly important one in the JFKA affair.

 

After watching Hargis say that, I considered it from a skeptical standpoint. Hargis looked to be in his 70's, maybe his memory was bad. Maybe he mixed up the other Officer White who ran from the overpass to the TSBD.  But that officer said he watched the limo go under the overpass before starting for the TSBD. That makes the timing questionable. He also said he had to wait for a freight train to pass before he ran from the overpass. Although his story about a freight train on the overpass during the shooting sequence is very dubious. 

What other officers could have been on the knoll as quickly as Hargis? Smith from Elm and Huston, or Foster from the overpass maybe? And if there was a 2nd cop there why was that never reported?

 Hargis was able to cross the St behind LBJ's SS follow up car about 9 seconds after the headshot. He could run to the knoll wall in 7 seconds. A Bond photo has him running from the lamppost and back towards his bike at 35 seconds after fr 313.  In his retelling he was only on the knoll a few seconds so the timing is tight but possible.

 

Edited February 20 by Chris Bristow

[Ron Bulman]

17 hours ago, Chuck Schwartz said:

Ron, I have not read the book yet.  So, I am witholding my conclusion on this subject.  But, it is odd how LHO ended up with a job  in 1963 on the JFK route  and Roscoe White ends up with a job in the Dallas Police in 1963. And the connections between LHO and Roscoe White in the Military are also quite coincedental.  I don't believe in coincidences .

True.  I remember the sensationalism in the D/FW newspapers and TV reports at the time of Ricky's revelations about his dad's diary.  Some of which still seem somewhat incredulous.  

The involvement of Shaw, Edwards and Marcedes do make me wonder again though.

[Chris Bristow]

Here is the Hargis interview where he mentions Roscoe White at about 8:00 min.
https://youtu.be/047rHDKqqxA?si=CTxy66OOK2lPFNas
If the link does not work search the following on Youtube.  "Michael Brownlow interviews B. W. (Bobby) Hargis - Part 1/2".
 Listening to this interview I now think the "Wall" Hargis mentioned in his WC testimony was not the patio wall. He said "I ran up to the triple underpass, the Grassy Knoll."
 But how could he run all the way to the underpass yet be seen running back to his bike in the Bond photo just 35 seconds after the head shot? DPD Coulsen is seen behind Hargis in the Bond photo and in one of the Cancellare photos which confirms the 35 sec mark of the Bond photo.    
 

 

[Joe Bauer]

In the initial post interview video of Dallas PD motorcycle patrolman Hargis, he mentions knowing Roscoe White as a fellow Dallas Police Officer.

If Hargis knew officer Roscoe White, it must not have been very well and for very long.

White only had a month of Dallas PD employment when JFK was killed.

An he initially worked in the Identification Bureau.

How well could motorcycle patrolman Hargis have known White at that time?

Hargis spent 45 years on the force? 

Wow! That is a long time. Yet, White was only on the force for two years? Way back from 1963 to 1965?

The Dallas PD employed over 1,000 men ( and women in administrative positions ) in 1963 and frequently we have heard many of those employed during that time say that they may not have known everyone on the force because of the sheer high number of employees and such varied departmental differences in duties, specialties and assignments. 

Throw in constant personnel turn-over to retirements, resignations, new hires, etc.

Certainly Hargis didn't know everybody on the force because of those facts.

Yet, he knew Roscoe White? Again, how well?

In this interview, Hargis scoffs at the notion of officer White being involved in any way to the JFKA. He inferred that he knew White well enough to defend his integrity as a police officer as unquestionable.

Was Hargis knowledgeable about White's military travels, duty stations and assignments? And the coincidences of White's and Oswald's sharing many of the same specific military duty locations and assignments at the exact same time?

Did Hargis ever read about or hear the facts of White's post Dallas PD duty life?

Was Hargis informed of the Reverend Shaw's claim that White confessed to him that he ( White) had killed men both here and on foreign soil? Suggesting that White may have been trained as a hit man both in the military and in civilian life?

How about White's multiple trysts with women other than his wife which even she knew about. 

These are integrity honesty issues.

Hargis's unquestionable belief of White's good and loyal character seems less credible because of these proven Roscoe White actions...imo anyways.

Did Roscoe White really own a Mauser rifle ( as his son Ricky claimed ) like the one Dallas County Sheriff Department Constable Seymour Weitzman ( a gun buff and sporting goods store owner ) first described as the rifle found on the sixth floor of the Texas Schoolbook depository just after JFK was shot?

White's death does sound more plausible as a murder versus accident imo.

Roscoe White's wife Geneva did work for Jack Ruby. If only for a month or two like most of his constant turnover employees.

The famous picture of her displaying her sexy feminine wares to a leering Jack Ruby more than proves this claim.

And Ruby most certainly knew she was married to a DPD officer and surely seen him dropping Geneva off or picking her up from the Carousel which stayed open until late in the evening?

An acquaintance relationship that could easily have included an occasional get-together ( if even one ) such as a barbeque invite to Ruby, especially if the White's and Ruby lived fairly close to each other.

Do the famous Lee Oswald backyard photos show Oswald's forearms as somewhat hairy versus not? I'll have to look. I was surprised at how much hair Oswald had on his forearms as shown in his DPD lineup ( see below ) and autopsy morgue table photos.

And I am now curious about Life Magazine getting Oswald's back yard photos and putting them on the cover of their national magazine. They got these within days!

I just don't see the DPD or even the FBI so easily and immediately handing over such crucially important and Oswald incriminating evidence like that to be splashed all over the nation.

Isn't that a risk of tainting such Oswald incriminating evidence?

Who violated such important protocols regards such evidence?

Was it Roscoe White? Did Life magazine ever reveal their BYP leaking source? Life had to have paid something for them. 

Life Magazine got both the Zapruder film AND the BYFs!

Whoever owned Life must have had some highest level connections to pull off that coup.

 

 

 

Edited February 21 by Joe Bauer

[Joe Bauer]

The proven truth is Roscoe White was a man of many secrets. 

Serious secrets. Perhaps even involving killing others according to his long-time pastor.

He guarded and kept those secrets even from his wife and children, to the very end.

A man steeled with a tough, obeying orders Marine mind set.

His post military job life seemed somewhat unsettled and random. Different jobs, moving about. He only stayed on the Dallas Police force for what...2 years?

He seemed restless as if civilian life didn't provide the visceral excitement of the combat ready duty and travel life of a young Marine overseas.

White was a man of physical action intrigue. 

He seemed drawn to it.

He liked the ladies and indulged himself.

Roscoe White was no Ward Cleaver. And his Carousel Club waitress wife Geneva was no June Cleaver.

At one point in his post Dallas Police employment life, White had a large instant income boost that enabled him to afford a new home, a lake side cabin and other amenities. According to his wife's and son's recounting, this seemed strange and unexplainable to them. They didn't think his regular work pay could have provided this.

Again, another Roscoe White secret.

With all this known irregular work and personal life background info regards the secretive Roscoe White ( as well as his Lee Harvey Oswald coincidences ) it makes total sense to consider him with serious minded suspicion from the minute he entered the Dallas police force scene imo.

And what is it about diaries? Oswald had his diary. White kept one. Mary Meyer kept one. And they all go missing?

I never even thought of keeping one and I can't recall knowing anyone who has kept one.