Steve Thomas Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Two becomes three and it gets better. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/benavide.htm Mr. BENAVIDES - Then I seen the man turn and walk back to the sidewalk and go on the sidewalk and he walked maybe 5 foot and then kind of stalled. He didn't exactly stop. And he threw one shell and must have took five or six more steps and threw the other shell up, and then he kind of stepped up to a pretty good trot going around the corner. Mr. BELIN - When you went back, what did you do? Mr. BENAVIDES - Well, I started--I seen him throw the shells and I started to stop and pick them up, and I thought I'd better not so when I came back, after I had gotten back, I picked up the shells. Mr. BENAVIDES - No, sir. He had just got back to the sidewalk when he threw the first one and when he threw the second one, he had already cut back into the yard. He just sort of cut across.Mr. BELIN - Now you saw him throw two shells? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - You saw where he threw the shells? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes, sir. Mr. BELIN - Did you later go back in that area and try and find the shells? Mr. BENAVIDES - Yes. Well, right after that I went back and I knew exactly where they was at, and I went over and picked up one in my hand, not thinking and I dropped it, that maybe they want fingerprints off it, so I took out an empty pack of cigarettes I had and picked them up with a little stick and put them in this cigarette package; a chrome looking shell. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/poe.htm Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, and told me he was running out across this lawn. He was unloading his pistol as he ran, and he picked the shells up. Mr. BALL. Domingo told you who was running across the lawn? Mr. POE. A man, white man. Mr. BALL. What was he doing? Mr. POE. He was unloading his pistol as he run. Mr. BALL. And what did he say?Mr. POE. He said he picked the two hulls up. Mr. BALL. Did he hand you the hulls? Mr. POE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Did you put any markings on the hulls? Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it; no, sir. Mr. BALL. What did you do with the hulls? Mr. POE. I turned the hulls into the crime lab, which was at the scene.Mr. BALL. Do you know the name of the man with the crime lab or from the crime lab? Mr. POE. I couldn't swear to it. I believe Pete Barnes, but I wouldn't swear to it. Mr. POE. There were two in an empty Winston cigarette package. Mr. BALL. Did you save the Winston cigarette package? Mr. POE. I turned it in with the two cartridges. Mr. BALL. To the crime lab? Mr. POE. Yes, sir. Mr. BALL. Now, the ones you said you made a mark on are you think it is 'these two? Q-77 and Q-75? Mr. POE. Yes, sir; those two there. Mr. BALL. Both marked Western Special? They both are marked Western Special. Mr. BALL How long did you stay there? Mr. POE. At the scene? Mr. BALL. Uh-huh. Mr. POE. I stayed there until Leavelle and his partner from the crime lab got there. Mr. BALL. Then you left? Mr. POE. Yes, sir; I got out and helped try to find the suspect. 2:26 PM https://www.maryferrell.org/showDoc.html?docId=11126#relPageId=68&tab=page Dispatcher. “75 and 69. Return back to this location. They want the Theater shaken down good for two hulls. Believe the suspect reloaded his pistol in the Theater. We need the two hulls. 2:26 PM” 75. 10-4 105. (Poe) “105, I have recovered two hulls at the scene and they were turned over to the Crime Lab to Pete Barnes.” Dispatcher. Received. Dispatcher. 75 and 69 Disregard at this time. Notice the time. Headquarters is still looking for these shells an hour after Barnes has arrived on the Tippit scene. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/barnes.htm Mr. BELIN. Anything else that you did out at the crime scene? Mr. BARNES. I photographed the scene; yes. There was a couple of hulls that was turned over to me. Mr. BELIN. Do you mean empty shell casings? Mr. BARNES. Empty .38 caliber hulls was turned over to me at the scene by patrolman--I believe I would be safe in saying Poe, but I am not sure about that. Mr. BELIN. While you were out there, were any additional hulls found other than these two? Mr. BARNES. Yes. Captain Doughty picked up another hull, .38 caliber. Mr. BELIN. Did you see Captain Doughty pick it up? Mr. BARNES. I did not. Mr. BELIN. Were you advised as to anyone who might have pointed it out to Captain Doughty, or did he get it himself, or what? Mr. BARNES. I heard that someone pointed it out to him and he picked it up. Mr. BELIN. You mean some citizen? Mr. BARNES. Some citizen pointed it out to him, and he picked it up? Mr. BELIN. Do you remember where he might have located it? What approximate location? Mr. BARNES. I was a busy man and I didn't watch his operation. Mr. BELIN. About when did you say you got out to the Tippit scene? Mr. BARNES. Approximately 1:40. Mr. BELIN. 1:40 in the afternoon? Mr. BARNES. Approximately, November 22. Mr. BELIN. When would you have started taking these pictures? Mr. BARNES. Shortly afterwards. Mr. BELIN. Within 5 or 10 minutes? Mr. BARNES. Yes. http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm Mr. HILL. Right. And Poe showed me a Winston cigarette package that contained three spent jackets from shells that he said a citizen had pointed out to him where the suspect had reloaded his gun and dropped these in the grass, and that the citizen had picked them up and put them in the Winston package... I told Poe to maintain the chain of evidence as small as possible... DPD Archives Box 9, Folder# 3, Item# 2 http://jfk.ci.dallas.tx.us/box9.htm Letter from Lieutenant J.C. Day to David Belin of the Warren Commission dated April 23, 1964. Sir, “In regard to the third hull which I stated has GD for George Doughty scratched on it, Captain Doughty does not remember handling this. Please check again to see possibly if it can be VD or VBD for Vince Drain.” Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) The underlying contention here is that the DPD replaced the evidence related to Tippit with the correct pistol and shells... a modified .38 used by the majority of policemen in the US at the time. The excess shells attributed to Oswald - and supposedly found hours later in his pockets - carry the tell-tale signs of having been stored in a gun belt... Something Oswald did not have along with a box of ammo, any evidence he ever purchased ammo or there was ever a pistol and ammo in his possession. Benavides adds another tidbit which point away from our man Ozzie Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) Earth to Conspiracy Theorists...... Lee Harvey Oswald had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM when he was arrested just 35 minutes after the murder! Maybe it'll help if I increase the font for emphasis.... Lee Harvey Oswald had the Tippit murder weapon ON HIM when he was arrested just 35 minutes after the murder! http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2011/04/index.html#JD-Tippit Edited January 23, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) From 2013.... "The key physical evidence are the bullet shells, two of which did not go through J.M. Poe's hands at all and, as such, they have a clear chain of custody (even for most conspiracy [theorists]).The only possible way for Lee Harvey Oswald to be innocent of shooting J.D. Tippit is if the following idiotic situation occurred (which nobody could possibly even begin to believe happened on November 22, 1963):Somebody other than Lee Oswald shoots Tippit with Oswald's revolver. This "non-Oswald" shooter (who looks just exactly like Lee Harvey Oswald, but really isn't him) then flees the scene of the Tippit crime, dumping four shells on the ground as he runs away. This non-Oswald shooter then meets up with the real Lee Oswald and hands off the Tippit murder weapon to LHO. Oswald then proceeds to the Texas Theater where he is arrested while in possession of the gun that somebody else used to kill Officer Tippit just 35 minutes earlier." -- DVP; June 2013 http://jfk-archives.blogspot.com/2010/06/tippit-timelines.html Edited January 23, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 EARTH TO DVP.... The FBI faked evidence in this case. Can you say COVER-UP? Of course not. Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Pistol from Seaport Traders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 Here's a 3-minute video showing how the FBI lied about witnesses in Dealey Plaza. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Hargrove Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 In the wee hours of the night of Nov 22-23, 1963, the FBI secretly took “Oswald's Possessions” from the Dallas Police Department, transported them to Washington, D.C. altered them, and then secretly returned them to Dallas, only to publicly send them to Washington. D.C. a few days later. Among a great many other alterations, a Minox “spy camera” became a Minox “light meter.” Tax records, not found by Dallas police who said they initialed each scrap of paper, magically appeared without DPD initials. FBI agent James Cadigan inadvertently spilled the bean about the secret transfer during his sworn WC testimony, which was altered by the WC. The FBI falsified so much testimony that it even had a process in place for routinely doing so, including over the objections of Warren Commission attorneys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 1 hour ago, David Josephs said: Benavides adds another tidbit which point away from our man Ozzie DPD Sergeant Gerald Hill: "We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car. Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair." http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm Where have we heard that physical description before? Oh yeah, that's the physical description that went out over the police radio at 12:45. Of course, Hill didn't get this witness's name or anything. Mr. BELIN. Now, let me interrupt you here, sergeant. Do you remember the name of the person that gave you the description? Mr. HILL. No. I turned him over to Poe, and I didn't even get his name. Mr. POE. We had--I don't know how many people there were. Looked like 150 to 200 people around there, and Mrs. Markham, I talked to her first and we got a description of the man that shot Tippit. Mrs. Markham, I talked to her first and we got a description of the man that shot Tippit. Mr. BALL. Do you know what the description was? Mr. POE. Sir? Mr. BALL. Do you know what the description was? Mr. POE. White male, about 25, about 5 feet 8, brown hair, medium, Mr. BALL. What did you do then? Mr. POE. We gave the description to several of the officers at the scene. Mr. BALL. Did you ever put that description on the radio? Mr. POE. I believe we did. But I couldn't swear to it. Mr. BALL. And what happened after that? Mr. POE. I talked to a Spanish man, but I don't remember his name. Dominique, I believe. Mr. BALL. Domingo Benavides? Mr. POE. I believe that is correct; yes, sir. Mr. BALL. What did he tell you? Mr. POE. He told me, give me the same, or similar description of the man, Mr. BALL. Did the Davis girls give you anything? Either one of the Davis girls hand you anything? Mr. POE. She give me the same general description of the suspect as Mrs. Markham. Mr. BALL. What was that? Mr. POE. White male, and in his early 20's, around 5'7" or 8", about 145 pounds, Poe provides absolutely no account of receiving a witness from Hill. Oh, an BTW, this is going a long way back in my memory, but wasn't one of the problems with the Tippit scene is that five shells were found, but Tippit had only been shot four times? Three in the magical mystery cigarette package, and two found by the Davis sisters? Three of one brand and two of another? Speculation was that one shot missed. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Von Pein Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) 50 minutes ago, Jim Hargrove said: EARTH TO DVP.... The FBI faked evidence in this case. Can you say COVER-UP? Of course not. Oswald Did NOT Purchase a Pistol from Seaport Traders The above = Absolute nonsense (of course). Oswald Positively DID Purchase A Pistol From Seaport Traders Edited January 23, 2018 by David Von Pein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 23, 2018 Author Share Posted January 23, 2018 In another Forum, Tom Sorenson corrected me. The third shell addressed by Day in his letter to Belin references one of the rifle shells found on the sixth floor of the TSBD, not one of the revolver shells. Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) On 1/23/2018 at 10:40 AM, Steve Thomas said: Three in the magical mystery cigarette package, and two found by the Davis sisters? Three of one brand and two of another? Speculation was that one shot missed. It seems that THREE is only mentioned that one time by HILL... except... Rose shows 4 shots entering the body... Shot #5 hit a button and was found in the ambulance if I remember correctly. "There are four entrance types of wounds. No. 1 is 4 3/4 inches from the top of the head and 3 3/4 inches to the right of the midline. This measures 3/ x 1/4 inch and is surrounded by a contusion ring. No powder tattooing is noted at the margins. "Wound No. 2 is 17 inches from the top of the head on the right chest. It is 4 inches to the right of the midline, above and slightly medial to the right nipple. It measures 3/8 x 1/4 of an inch, surrounded by bruising. There is also a contusion ring. "Wound No. 3 is 21 inches from the top of the head, along the anterior lateral side of the right chest and is 6 inches to the right of the midline. This measures 5/16 x 1/4 of an inch and is surrounded by a contusion ring. "Wound No. 4 on the left chest is 20-1/2 inches from the top of the head, 1-1/4 inches to the left of the midline. The wound measures 3/4 x 3/8 of an inch, is transverse and surrounding this is a 1/4 x 3/4 inch abrasion. So a couple things about this CSSS.... Testimony shows all those who handled the pistol after supposedly taken from Oswald at the Theater, say it was fully loaded. This says there were only 4 of the 6 chambers filled. Mr. HILL. Then I broke the gun open to see how many shells it contained and how many live rounds it had in it. Mr. BELIN. How many did you find? Mr. HILL. There were six in the chambers of the gun. While 2 days earlier BARNES gives KELLEY 2 more live .38 rounds yet there is no other notation as to how they are connected and the 11-28 report does not state where the other 2 live .38 shells went... Why would KELLEY get 2 then Drain get the other 4 2 days later?? --- The "4 Hulls" relate to the "at the scene" shells supposedly found.... does indeed miss one Steve There should have been 5 shells... Mr. BELIN - How many shots did you hear all told? Mr. BENAVIDES - I heard three shots. Mr. BELIN. How many shots did you hear? Mr. SCOGGINS. Three or four, in the neighborhood. They was fast. Mr. BELIN. They were fast shots? Mr. SCOGGINS. Yes; they were fast. ELBERT AUSTIN, 8317 Fourth Avenue, Dallas, advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was working on a construction job at the intersection of Tenth and Denver Street, Dallas, Texas. He advised he was a brick mason's helper and was assisting in the construction of an apartment house. Me stated sometime after 1:00 PM he was on a scaffold in front of the aforementioned apartment house when he heard approximately two or three shots JIMMY EARL BURT, General Delivery stated that on November 22, 1963 he was living at 505 E. 10th Street, Dallas, Texas which is the residence of his father—in—law, DAVID SHAEFER. He and a friend WILLIAM SMITH were sitting in his brother, BILLY BURT's house located at the corner of 9th and Denver Streets, Dallas. It was some time after lunch when they heard two gunshots. He and SMITH immediately ran from the house toward his car, a 1952 two—tone blue Ford which was parked facing south on Denver Street. As they ran from the house they heard four more shots making a total of six. Mr. BALL. What did you hear at that time? Mr. CALLAWAY. I heard what sounded to me like five pistol shots. Mr. BALL. Five pistol shots? Mr. CALLAWAY. Five shots, yes, sir. FRANK CIMINO, 403 East Tenth Street, Apartment 7, Dallas, Texas, advised that on November 22, 1963, he was residing in an apartment at 405 East Tenth Street. He Stated that at around 1 p.m. he was at his apartment listening to the radio. He heard four loud noises which sounded like shots and then he heard a women scream The officer was lying on his side with his head in front of the left front head light of his car. His gun was out of the holster and lying by his side Mr. DULLES. Plural? How many did you hear? Mrs. DAVIS. Just two, they were pretty close together. (both sisters say the same thing) Mr. BALL. How many? Mr. GUINYARD. I heard three. FRANCIS KINNETH, 1425 Caidwell, Dallas, Texas, advised he was employed on a construction job at the intersection of Denver and Tenth Street, Dallas, on the afternoon of November 22, 1963. He advised at approximately 1:00 PM he had heard approximately two or three shots L. J. LEWIS, 7616 Hums, Pleasant Grove, Texas, advised he is presently self-employed as a wholesale car dealer. LEWIS advised that on the afternoon of November 22, 1963, he was on the used car lot of Johnny Reynolds Used Cars together with HAROLD RUSSELL and PAT PATTERSON, during which time they heard approximately three or four gun shots coming from the vicinity of Tenth and Patton Avenue, Dallas, Texas Mr. LIEBELER. How many shots did you hear? Mr.REYNOLDS. I really have no idea, to be honest with you. I would say four or five or six. I just would have no idea. Mr. JACK RAY TATUM : I heard three shots in rapid (illegible)I went right through the intersection, stopped my car and turned to look back. I then saw the officer lying on the street and saw this young white man standing near the front of the squad car. Next. this man with a gun in his hand ran toward the back of the squad car, but instead of running away he stepped into the street and shot the police officer who was lying in the street. Edited June 18, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McTague Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I'm curious just how LHO could have used his pistol to shoot Officer Tippet since the pistol wouldn't fire in the theater - it had a defective firing pin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 11 minutes ago, Rick McTague said: I'm curious just how LHO could have used his pistol to shoot Officer Tippet since the pistol wouldn't fire in the theater - it had a defective firing pin. Good point... or the fact Markham says 1:07 or that he came from the EAST and not the WEST or that it's more than 10 minutes from N Beckley to 10th and Patton or the pistol has two different chains of possession and custody or the Seaport documentation is pure BS or that REA has no records of the shipment, the pick-up or collection of the shipping amount... or that witnesses see another police car and 2 more policemen watching the shooting (there were 2 policemen in the car E. Roberts remembers honking its horn) or that there is no way to connect a bullet to its hull or that HILL and one other claim the weapon was a .38 automatic or that Oswald never bought ammo and that the pistol in evidence is the same type used by most everyone at the Dallas Police Dept. as is the ammo... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Bulman Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) 11 hours ago, Jim Hargrove said: Here's a 3-minute video showing how the FBI lied about witnesses in Dealey Plaza. Thanks. Classic irrefutable proof. More Men who were there who were ignored, suppressed, had their statement changed by the FBI. Kind of like how Vicki Adams was handled by the Warren Omission itself, but they didn't let these guy's statement get that far. Listen to it. Price saw a guy run from behind the grassy knoll to behind the TSBD. *&#%$$$@!, bells, whistles, sirens. Get this guy on record, with a statement witness, question him in detail. Nope. Ignored. Officially ignored. Buried in History. Edited January 24, 2018 by Ron Bulman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Thomas Posted January 24, 2018 Author Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 hours ago, Steve Thomas said: DPD Sergeant Gerald Hill: "We went on to the scene of the shooting where we found a squad car parked against the right or the south curb on 10th Street, with a pool of blood on the left-hand side of it near the side of the car. Tippit had already been removed. The first man that came up to me, he said, "The man that shot him was a white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, had on a Jacket and a pair of dark trousers, and brown bushy hair." http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/russ/testimony/hill_gl.htm http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/dpdtapes/tapes3.htm 1:19 Dispatcher. Suspect running west on Jefferson from the location. No physical description. Channel 2. ...involving a police officer at 400 East Tenth. Suspect last seen running 91, ((Ptm. W.D. Mentzel and Ptm. J.W. Courson) have a signal 19 west on Jefferson. No description at this time. (Pause) Suspect just passed 401 E Jefferson. 1:22 85 (Ptm. R.W. Walker). We have a description on this suspect over here on Jefferson. Last seen about 300 block of East Jefferson. He's a white male, about thirty, five eight, (siren) black hair, slender, 1:24 Dispatcher. Wanted for investigation for assault to murder on a police officer: A white male; approximately thirty; about five foot eight; slender build; has black hair; 1:26 91. What was the description...? Dispatcher. White male, thirty, five feet eight, black hair, slender build, 550/2 (Sgt. G.L. Hill). I'm at Twelfth and Beckley now. Have a man in the car with me that can identify the suspect if anybody gets him. Dispatcher. Have you been to the scene? 550/2 The officer was already gone when I got there. He was driving car number 10. 1:28 On Channel 2. 4 (Deputy Chief of Police N.T. Fisher). Is there any indication that it has any connection with this other shooting? Dispatcher. Well, the descriptions on the suspect are similar and it is possible. 1:33 Unknown. . . clothing description on that suspect? (Siren) Dispatcher. White male, thirty, height five foot eight, very slender build, black hair 1:34 221 (Ptm. H.W. Summers). Might can give you some additional information. I got an eye-ball witness to the get-away man. That suspect in this shooting is a white male, twenty-seven, five feet eleven, a hundred sixty-five, black wavy hair, fair complected...And he was apparently armed with a 32 dark-finish automatic pistol which he had in his right hand. This man can positively identify him if they need him. 221. I've got two witnesses; one that talked with the officer and one that observed the man. 550/2 The shells at the scene indicate that the suspect is armed with an automatic 38, rather than a pistol. 19 (Sgt. C.B. Owens) 19. Dispatcher. 221 has an eye witness to the shooting. You want him to hold on to him? Do you want him to keep the eye witness at the scene? 19. Yes. 19. (Sgt. C.B. Owens). 19 Dispatcher. Are you en route to 404 East Tenth where 221 has the eye witness? 19. Yes That is the last physical descriptions in the police dispatch tapes Patrolman Summers did not testify before the Warren Commission nor is there an after-action report from him in the DPD Archives. Who was this man who could testify to a 5'11” 165 lb suspect? Gerald Hill did not provide Dispatch with a physical description of a “white male about 5'10", weighing 160 to 170 pounds, and brown bushy hair", or that he had a witness, whose name he could not remember, that he told the WC that he turned over to Poe. Why was Hill at 12th and Beckley? If Summers had the eyewitness, who did Hill have in his car? Steve Thomas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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