The KGB and the JFK case

[James DiEugenio]

Eddy:

I am beginning to think that Oswald was at neither embassy. There is a distinct reason I do not think he was at the Russian embassy.  But I cannot reveal it at this time.

Why do I think Nechiporenko did what he did?

It goes back to what the Soviets and KGB were doing since Nagell's meeting with them.  They had gotten word of a CIA plot.  And they felt that the Agency was going to blame it on the commies--which they did. 

I think what Nechiporenko did, years later, was to say what he did in order to distance the Russians from the plot.  "Why would we be in league with such an unstable person" excuse.  Which is actually pretty effective. You don't get ridiculed by the MSM, "What do you mean he was not there?" and you play into a certain meme.

 

 

[James DiEugenio]

11 minutes ago, Paz Marverde said:

Nothing to add. KGB had NOTHING to do with the plot

Correct Paz. But somehow that is not important.

[Paz Marverde]

2 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said:

Correct Paz. But somehow that is not important.

I know, but I am really tired of people still talking about a KGB plot. I am not sure if they are able to use their own brain

[James DiEugenio]

BTW, I have to comment a bit on the whole molehunt idea, as begun by Scott oh so long ago.

I think everyone understands that once Oswald went to Russia, it was pretty obvious that the KGB had him smoked out very quickly.  They had him under electronic surveillance at the Metropole Hotel and LHO was very ill prepared to try and trick them.  He had to fake a suicide attempt to even stay in the country.

They then shipped him to Minsk, 450 miles away from Moscow.  There, they surround him with a ring of both human and electronic intel.  

From all this, it is obvious to anyone of moderate wisdom that the Russians knew Oswald was some kind of CIA agent. Back in the fifties.

Therefore, if they had  a mole in this country would they not tell that person, "Hey, this guy is spooky. They tried to snooker us with him.  Its one of crazy Jim Angleton's dangles.  Stay clear of  him."

So how could anyone think that this would provide any tangible result?

 

(BTW, this is only one of the many problems I have with this idea.)

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by James DiEugenio

[David Josephs]

1 hour ago, Thomas Graves said:

"The fly in the ointment" is ... Lee Harvey Oswald and Nikolai Leonov did not "look similar" at all, other than the fact that they were both male and they were both white. 

Tommy...   (flag) penalty.... 5 yards for excessive assumption.

If you were to read that description under either man's photo... "Not similar" is not what I see.  Works pretty well for either in 1963 when you've not seen images of both for 20 years.

But if you want to play.. "Maybe"...  I can read King's 11/22/63... The case is hard enough with what we know... Let us know what you turn up....

[Thomas Graves]

1 hour ago, Paz Marverde said:

Nothing to add. KGB had NOTHING to do with the plot

Paz,

With all due respect, do YOU have anything to add to this thread?  A thread, by the way, that your colleague James DiEugenio went out of his way to create for widdle old me on which to expound my theories about the evil, evil, evil KGB and the JFK assassination, so that I might cease and desist from "trying to hijack" his own precious "DiEugenio Slams The Washington Post" or somesuchthing thread?

In short, are you trying to hijack or disrupt this thread by diverting attention away from my (usually) thoughtful, time-consuming posts with your smiley faces and your absolutely incredibly informative and insightful two-liners, like -- "Nothing to add.  KGB had NOTHING to do with the plot"? 

Shall I bring your recent posts like these to the attention of the moderators?

Or would you care to expound a bit on your statement, i.e., "KGB had NOTHING to do with the plot" ? 

You know, try to refute my posts or whatever, with some verifiable evidence (whatever THAT is)?

You know, that sort of thing? You know, to make you look like a serious member of this forum, and not just like some DiEugenio sycopant, or a "The Evil, Evil, Evil CIA Killed Kennedy" cheerleader, or a witting or unwitting ... gasp ... "Russian t-r-o-l-l," or something?

I mean, I mean, I mean ...

 

--  Tommy 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[David Josephs]

Offer viable evidence in your posts....

Buddy

[Paz Marverde]

Angleton created a CIA inside the CIA. CMC is this: a CIA inside the CIA. It is really evident Angleton's presence inside Clay Shaw's CMC. This explains a lot of things. And speaks volumes about the fact that KGB had nothing to do with a plot to kill JFK

[David Josephs]

Put the KGB into Bethesda Tommy... 

Or in AF 1

[David Josephs]

Or is Tommy worried that the reaction is too similar to the government today?

Conspiracy? Russians.... 

Cold War is over.... Remember?

[Thomas Graves]

42 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Offer viable evidence in your posts....

Buddy

David,

With all due respect:

1)  Are you talking to me?

2)  "Verifiable evidence" regarding WHAT in my posts?  That Leonov really was only 5' 7"?  That he had blonde hair and blue eyes?  That he had a very thin face?

That Golitsyn was a flawed true defector and Nosenko was a flawed false defector?

That the Soviets/Russians have been waging highly-sophisticated active measures counterintelligence operations against us and our allies (and against Nazi Germany before and during WW II) for 90-plus years, artfully interwoven with 58 years of highly-sophisticated Second Chief Directore Department 14 "operational deception" (aka "strategic deception") ops*** ?

(Don't take it from me, David, just read that evil, evil, evil Tennent Bagley's "Spy Wars," and his follow-up PDF "Ghosts of the Spy Wars.")
 

--  Tommy 

 

*** The biggest and most dramatic example of which, imho, may very well have been The Assassination Of JFK, followed closely by Putin's installation of his blackmail-able "useful idiot" Donald James Trump as our president?  And why would he do that?  Install Trump, that is?

Well, to tear this country apart, by golly!

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

29 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Put the KGB into Bethesda Tommy... 

Or in AF 1

 

David,

With all due respect (and with apologies to LHO) -- "Your the genius detective, Josephs.  YOU figure it out." 

And while you're at it, give a plausible explanation for  Duran's and Azcue's collectively describing ...

--  Tommy 

 

Btw, have those probable coincidences and unexplanable anomalies (whatever it is you're referring to here) been proved to have been part-and-parcel of the evil, evil, evil CIA's conspiracy?  You know, "altering the wounds," the fifteen caskets, "the phony x-rays," "the missing x-rays," the really, really, really suspicious radio transmissions --- those sorts of things?

Or will I have to read "Harvey and Lee and the Two Marguerites" to understand it all?

 

Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[Thomas Graves]

27 minutes ago, David Josephs said:

Or is Tommy worried that the reaction is too similar to the government today?

Conspiracy? Russians.... 

Cold War is over.... Remember?

David,

With all due respect, you really are too arcane and hard to follow when you get upset.

"worried" ?

"the reaction" ?

"conspiracy" ?

"Russians ..." ?

"Cold War is over .... Remember?" ?

What in the world are you referring to?

 

Regardless, wanna get all defensive and insulting and get kicked off the forum, again? 

I certainly hope not, because believe it or not, you DO have a lot to offer.  Sometimes.

 

[Thomas Graves]

On 2/2/2018 at 5:43 PM, Thomas Graves said:

 

James,

With all due respect, could you please give us a plausible reason for Sylvia Duran's and Eusebio Azcue's collectively describing the "Oswald" they allegedly dealt with on 9/27/63 in such a way as to so perfectly describe the Mexico City-based KGB officer Nikolai Leonov?

Noticebly short (allegedly not much taller, in fact, than Duran's 5' 3.5"), blue-eyes, blond; blond-or-dark-blond haired, thin, about 30 years of age, VERY THIN-FACED, and, according to Azcue, wearing a darkish suit (which Azcue seemed to remember quite well, as he said it was a gray "Prince of Wales" with vertical blue "highlight" stripes), not, one would think, totally unlike the darkish suit "diplomat" Leonov was photographed wearing five days later on October 2.

Regardless, do you agree with Sandy Larsen that the evil, evil CIA must have sent an agent with those physical characteristics to Mexico City to "kill two birds with one stone," i.e.,

1)  to impersonate (the one and only) Lee Harvey Oswald, and 

2)  to implicate that very nice KGB officer Nikolai Leonov?

(Which, IF TRUE, raises the following awkward question: Was Sylvia Duran -- the person who claimed to have stapled Lee Harvey Oswald's passport-sized photos to his visa application forms in his presence -- secretly in the employ of the evil CIA, either directly or via the equally evil, evil, evil Mexican Police/Intelligence Service?)

Or, on the other hand, is it remotely possible that Duran and Azcue described the "Oswald" they did (or did not at all) deal with on Friday, September 27 the way they did in order to point the finger at Leonov and the KGB for having arranged / coerced the ruse?

Or that the bugger Ruskie midget really did impersonate the one-and-only Lee Harvey Oswald? (Which, in a way, could help us to make sense of Leonov's amazing National Enquirer interview in which he said that he alone met with (crazy, dangerous looking) Oswald at the Cuban Consulate on SUNDAY, September 29 -- because, "How in the heck could I have impersonated him if he showed up at my office!?")


More challenging questions for James DiEugenio (and fascinating points from me) will appear on this thread shortly. 

Stay tuned, folks ...

--  Tommy 


 

edited a widdle bit and bumped

Edited February 19, 2018 by Thomas Graves

[James DiEugenio]

Two can play the TG game:

 

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Posted February 2 (edited)

Since Tommy G has been bouncing all over the forum trying to promote his KGB did it concept, why not give him his own thread?

To my knowledge, no one has proposed this since Epstein in Legend, which we all know was  done in cooperation with Angleton.

Even there, Epstein kind of hedged his bets at at the end and gave himself a Castro did it out.  I think most of us would say that the book is not really a stellar effort since it really does not deal in any way with the evidence in the case. In that regard, it resembles PJM and her acolyte Jean Davison, and her horrendous Oswald's Game.

Legend in my view, and Epstein taken as a case study, does not inspire confidence since in any discussion of his career, its pretty evident that Epstein flipped sides somewhere along the line. And the idea that the KGB was behind the murder of JFK does not have many followers that I know of.  In fact I know of none.

Let me explain why:

1. If the Russians were behind the hit, why would they hire Richard Case Nagell to track down the actual conspiracy. Further, the Russians knew that there was a domestic plot and that  the actual conspirators would try to  blame the communists.  

2. In the recently declassified files, both the leader of the USSR, Nikita K, and the upper level of the KGB, strongly suspect a right wing plot involving US security forces and they urge the American authorities to do a very vigorous inquiry.

3.  There is no evidence I know of that Oswald was ever recruited by the KGB.  In fact, from what I know, the Russians had Oswald smoked out very early as a CIA fake defector--which he was.  Oswald knew that and he had to fake a suicide attempt to even be allowed to stay in the country.  

4. But even at that, they then shipped him 400 miles from the seat of government to Minsk.  And they then surrounded him with a ring of electronic and human surveillance. Why would they do that if they had recruited Oswald?

5.  What is the evidence that once Oswald left the USSR, that he had any KGB contacts in the USA? The White Russians' goal was to overthrow the Communists in Moscow.  George DeM stated that he would never have met Oswald if it had not been requested of him by his CIA handler J. Walton Moore. And I also think most of us know that when the Baron went to Haiti he was working in tandem with the CIA again.

6. It is clear that once Oswald left for New Orleans he was again associating with reactionary, CIA associated figures like Clay Shaw, David Ferrie and Guy Banister. And also with some Cuban exiles.  Where was the KGB?

7. When he returns to Dallas from Mexico, is anyone going to argue that the Paines or Wesley Frazier were Russian agents?

8. In Mexico City, I mean please. What is the evidence that he even visited the Russian Embassy? If we recall, Phillips once said that when all was said and done, there would be none.  David Josephs has come up with some revolutionary work on this subject. And it is going to get even more convincing I predict.  To the point that I believe it will set a new paradigm.  But even if you buy the whole Passport to Assassination book, which I do not, where is the tie in between the Russians and Oswald in Dallas?  

9. What was the KGB tie in with Jack Ruby?  How did they influence him to kill their agent, Oswald?

10. How did the KGB arrange to falsify the autopsy at Bethesda that night?  Was Curtis LeMay a secret double agent? Is that why he was flying in from Michigan that afternoon?

In light of the above, why would anyone even begin to postulate such an idea?