James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 But Sandy: I still don't know what Angleton is talking about. What arrest of Oswald, and what picture of Leontov or Leonov or whatever the heck the guy's name is? When did that happen and where is the picture among his belongings? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 57 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Tommy, I understand the usefulness of false flag operations, which I believe was the secondary goal of the JFK assassination. (The primary goal being to get rid of the traitorous SOB.) What I can't understand is why the Soviets would want to assassination Kennedy. I mean, if he was such a pain in the xxx, why not just wait for his term(s) to end? I can't believe that Khrushchev and his comrades at the Kremlin would be so stupid as to kill an American president. Talk about a death wish. Why do you think the Soviets would want to kill Kennedy? Sandy my friend, I can think of several reasons. Despite portrayals to the contrary, JFK was a bit of a hawk. Khrushchev was embarrassed by the Cuban Missile Crisis fiasco. Revenge? Very long-term combo "active measures" and "operational deception" strategy: Make the U.S. (and hence, evil, evil, evil NATO) weaker, and cause it to eventually tear itself apart, by injecting some major trauma and chaos; planting The Mother Of All Seeds for a multitude of "tinfoil hat," non-fact-checking conspiracy theorists and their theories. As evidenced by voter apathy among Democrats during the 2016 presidential election, due largely to ... yep ... fake news from Putin's professional trolls in Saint Petersburg, Putin's bots, etc., etc, oh yeah, and with the help of previously brainwashed, unwitting "fellow travellers" in the U.S. like ...... well .......... never mind. -- Tommy "In one ear and out the other," eh? PS Maybe the Politburo wanted to engage the U.S. in a little proxy war in S.E. Asia? Edited February 20, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 40 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: But Sandy: I still don't know what Angleton is talking about. What arrest of Oswald, and what picture of Leontov or Leonov or whatever the heck the guy's name is? When did that happen and where is the picture among his belongings? Jim, My assumption is that the arrest and the photos were more CIA fabrications that never made the light of day. Either the FBI discovered them and covered them up. Or Angleton fabricated those things in his mind and used them for his purposes. I personally don't think it was Angleton's goal to cover up the Oswald/Cuban/Russian conspiracy (via the WW3 virus). Because if it were, I don't think he would have kept pushing the idea. I think he was creating a pretext for invasion or war. But LBJ didn't bite. Edited February 20, 2018 by Sandy Larsen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Sandy Larsen said: Jim, My assumption is that the arrest and the photos were more CIA fabrications that never made the light of day. Either the FBI discovered them and covered them up. Or Angleton fabricated those things in his mind and used them for his purposes. I personally don't think it was Angleton's goal to cover up the Oswald/Cuban/Russian conspiracy (via the WW3 virus). Because if it were, I don't think he would have kept pushing the idea. I think he was creating a pretext for invasion or war. But LBJ didn't bite. LOL! -- Tommy Hey, I can do that on MY thread, right? (lol) Edited February 20, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sandy Larsen Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 54 minutes ago, Thomas Graves said: Khrushchev was embarrassed by the Cuban Missile Crisis fiasco. Revenge? Oh please! We're talking about politicians here, not the mob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 Angleton was still pushing this ten years later. And he proposed the whole Leonov or Leontov angle. I think we need an intervention with TG and I hope the mods OK it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 2/19/2018 at 11:11 PM, James DiEugenio said: Angleton was still pushing this ten years later. And he proposed the whole Leonov or Leontov angle. I think we need an intervention with TG and I hope the mods OK it. James "Fearless Leader" DiEugenio, Yes! Yes! Yes! It was all "Deep State," just like your buddy, Donald Trump, and Julian Assange, and ... and ... and ... OLIVER STONE are saying now! Wait a second ... Or is it the evil, evil, evil MIIC? ... I get SO confused... National Security State??? -- "TG" PS "I think we need an intervention with TG (Thomas Graves) and I hope the mods OK it." -- James DiEugenio, 2/19/18 "We, "James? You, and Paz, Paul B., Jeffries, Dawn, and who else? Oh yeah, and "josephs," too. And ... Hmm. Sounds like a conspiracy. Or am I just getting really, really paranoid like ..... well ..... never mind. Edited May 7, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Graves Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) On 2/3/2018 at 4:35 AM, Thomas Graves said: James, Strange, isn't it, that Nechiporenko, Yatsev, and Kostikov claimed that Oswald visited them on Friday, September 26, and the next day, too, at which time (Saturday) he became quite emotional and brandished a revolver, whereas a fourth Soviet "diplomat," Nikolai Leonov, (who admittedly worked in a different part of the building) didn't say anything about those meetings, but did say that HE ALONE had met one-on-one with Oswald on Sunday, September 29, after Oswald showed up unexpectedly during an embassy volleyball match, and that ... yep ... you guessed it, Oswald became emotional and brandished a revolver! What's going on, here? Is it an example of four KGB guys who can't get on the same page, or did the FSB tell Leonov to jump in there with his story at a late date just to confuse us and / or make it sound as though they were all lying / all somehow telling the truth? Is it possible that Leonov jumped in there not only to implausibly confirm what the first three (and fake defector Nosenko) had said -- that Oswald was a crazy-dangerous guy -- BUT ALSO AND MORE IMPORTANTLY to obviate, with smoke and mirrors, the possibility that he, himself, had ... (gasp) ... impersonated Oswald on Friday, September 27? As regards your question about an Oswald - KGB tie in in Dallas, let me remind you, James, that CIA CI officer Edward Clare Petty (who unfortunately thought that JJA was a mole) believed, based on some WWII VENONA decrypts, that George DeMohrenschildt was a long-term KGB "illegal". -- Tommy edited and bumped Edited February 20, 2018 by Thomas Graves Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) TG: Despite portrayals to the contrary, JFK was a bit of a hawk. Khrushchev was embarrassed by the Cuban Missile Crisis fiasco. Revenge? What can you say to nonsense like this? I mean really. Kennedy was a bit of a hawk? Compared to who? Mother Theresa? Kennedy never committed combat troops to any theater of conflict. He let the Bay of Pigs fail when everyone else was telling him to send in the Marines. During 1961, he turned down eight requests to insert combat troops into Vietnam. He rejected all of them, and faced down his advisors during a two week debate in November.. During the Missile Crisis, Kennedy refused to bomb the missile silos at any time, even when Castro shot down an unarmed U2. Again, his military leaders and advisors wanted him to go beyond that and order a full invasion e.g. Johnson, Fulbright. By late 1962-63, he had arranged a three way correspondence between himself, Krushchev and Castro for a detente, and recognition and exchange of ambassadors with Cuba. We all know how Castro reacted when he got the news of Kennedy's death. Khrushchev allegedly wept. Both men did not buy the Oswald did it story. Both G2 and the KGB suspected a high level rightwing plot. RFK told Khrushchev that is what he suspected, and because LBJ was too business oriented, the JFK/Khrushchev plan for rapprochement would have to be placed on hold until he ran for president. We know what happened when he did so. (Was Sirhan programmed by the KGB?) All of this gets the back of TG's hand because Crazy Jim Angleton said Oswald was arrested with a picture of Leontov or Leonov or whatever his name is, in his pocket. For which no one can offer any proof it happened. Must be nice not to have to meet any kind of standard of evidence, let alone proof. Crazy Jim said it and Bagley wrote about it. And that is that. And he now floods the board with threads from 13 years ago over this nonsense. Edited February 20, 2018 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 3 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: Kennedy was a bit of a hawk? Compared to who? Mother Theresa? Jim, thanks for the gift of 5 minutes of laughs. TG is a desperate case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Author Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) My pleasure Paz. At least we can salvage some humor from TG. Edited February 20, 2018 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 17 minutes ago, James DiEugenio said: My pleasure Paz. At least we can salvage some humor from TG. Absolutely, Jim. Absolutely Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kirk Gallaway Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Yeah, that Jim, he's a real live wire! Sandy said: What I can't understand is why the Soviets would want to assassination Kennedy. I mean, if he was such a pain in the xxx, why not just wait for his term(s) to end? I can't believe that Khrushchev and his comrades at the Kremlin would be so stupid as to kill an American president. Talk about a death wish. Why do you think the Soviets would want to kill Kennedy? Sandy's right. It ignores what was really happening. The retreat from the brink in the Missile Crisis, the correspondences between Kennedy and Khrushev, the Nuclear Test ban Treaty, the American University speech. And the historic accounts of insider Kremlin response to it. There are things that are mind boggling about the Kennedy Assassination. So maybe there's no wonder that there's always "this 1+1 has be 3" thinking that's always lurking behind the scenes. Tommy, I understand you implore everyone to read these books. Just like Jim D. But I probably never will. And just because some theory is cleverly put together in some book is not going to change my life about it. So I look at the bottom line, and your theory posits that the Soviet Union killed JFK, and with all due respect Tommy, I'd be more inclined to believe Paul T's theory. At least there, is legitimate motive. But there is no shortage of other people here who are curious, and want to put in the time to really understand as well as argue with your theory, and share their theories. And for that, I'd imagine you gotta feel good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pamela Brown Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/18/2018 at 8:50 AM, James DiEugenio said: David: I should add, "according to the Warren Report". I agree with you that there is less and less evidence to support LHO ever being in Mexico City. Agent Hosty said to me that when he asked LHO about going to MC he became enraged. That at least tells me there was something of significance going on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Varnell Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) 3 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: He let the Bay of Pigs fail when everyone else was telling him to send in the Marines. Factually incorrect. The CIA Deputy Director Charles Cabell and Admiral Arleigh Burke made half-hearted appeals for US intervention, which Kennedy easily brushed off. There was far more pressure on Kennedy not to intervene Edited February 20, 2018 by Cliff Varnell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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