Joe Bauer Posted February 19, 2018 Share Posted February 19, 2018 (edited) 15 hours ago, James DiEugenio said: It was banned because of some of the things Barr McClellan said on the show. Like, "I know Lyndon Johnson killed Kennedy!" There was nothing in his book that merited any such absolute and metaphysical certitude. Our side, when given such an opportunity, has to be very careful. Since the other side, which is in power, will use anything they can to discredit us. Which explains the other part of your question about Dale "Mr. Single Bullet Fact" Myers. As I said, Turner had a wonderful opportunity to really do some valuable things. There were many people he could have had on: Eddie Lopez, Dan Hardway, Gaeton Fonzi, John Newman, Bill Davy, Victoria Adams and Sandra Styles etc. I don't recall any of them being on. When you give people like that the back of your hand, and instead you welcome the likes of Judy Baker, Barr McClellan, Dan Marvin and Tom Wilson, well, that tells us a lot about Nigel Turner and his interest in the JFK case. Jim, do you have any personal conclusion beliefs as to Nigel Turner's true motives or agendas in making the TMWKK Documentary series? Was Turner just a money minded opportunist who shamelessly threw out interviews of the most sensational story characters he could find, no matter how fringe sounding, simply to garner a larger viewer audience? Like a circus sideshow? Oliver Stone admitted he incorporated the use of a fair amount of Hollywood dramatic license in his JFK film for several reasons including greater audience appeal. Of course, he and the people who financed the film production had to make money on this project. Or, was Turner just untalented or ignorantly misguided in choosing to include several interviews of controversial characters alongside what I and many others believe are very important, valid and believable ones? Or, was Turner's real agenda a National Enquirer disinformation type one of diluting the real truth effort by purposely including just enough controversial characters ( some say "out there" ) in his documentary to ultimately deflate it's integrity and importance? Some on our forum believe there is a great deal of important, honest, valid and useful information offered in Turner's documentary. Information no one else ever found or at least got out to the general public. No one can disagree with your list of very important JFK researchers and Dealey Plaza event witnesses that should have been included in Turner's documentary series. Just curious whether you feel these omissions were deliberate and why, or just incompetence? Edited February 19, 2018 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamey Flanagan Posted February 19, 2018 Author Share Posted February 19, 2018 Just watched a VERY interesting YouTube video that ties in with this thread. You have to get a good ways into it but they talk about programs such as TMWKK being produced by the CIA and all of the red herrings contained therein as disinformation. Worth a watch if you have an hour or so of free time. I listen to docs at work on my Bluetooth ear buds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 Joe: I think that Nigel Turner was a very opportunistic and sensationalist type of tabloid personality. His stuff belonged in the National Enquirer. Not representing our side on television. What is incredible to me is how he enables people like Baker to enter the argument at all. I mean ask Debra Conway what she thinks of Baker., since she got to watch her operate at close quarters. Jamey, as per Tom Wilson, there has never been any kind of scientific rationale for his process. None. And he was never able to explain it to anyone who inquired e.g. John Costella or Milicent Cranor or Bob Groden. When you cannot do that, then your theoretical underpinnings are about as reliable as the so called bullet lead test of the NAA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) No cast of middle-aged mob leaders fired on JFK from buildings with their deer rifles, Jamey. Those were trained shooters. Why would mob leaders expose themselves like that? The video might as well say that Jimmy Hoffa was up there. And Rolando Masferrer is not going to be a spotter - he was a businessman and financial backer of exile forces. The "filthy, smelly sewer," while unpleasant, was only a conduit for rainwater from Dealey Plaza and areas upstream. As the video shows, that similarly middle-aged researcher in boonie hat and camo jacket emerged relatively unbefouled - you can also find his sewer tour on YouTube. Edited February 20, 2018 by David Andrews Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 On 2/16/2018 at 11:41 PM, James DiEugenio said: I am pretty sure it will. That’s great to know and thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Wilson Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 well...i will throw a few more names out there that were contributors in TMWKK...Gary Shaw,Larry Harris,Bill Turner,Doug Weldon,andJack White....Were they National Enquirer or CIA?.....Whatever you choose to call them or claim their motives were.....they're hero's of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 20, 2018 Share Posted February 20, 2018 (edited) How long were Shaw or Harris in the program? Not long at all as I recall. The main talking heads in the original series were the late Gary Mack and Groden. As time went on, the individual shows were centered on certain people e. g. Marvin, Wilson. I also think there was one with Thom Hartmann. And then Nigel Turner went off the edge with the 50th: I mean McClellan and Baker etc. IMO, when you add it all up, the negative greatly outweighs the positive. And as I stated above, we should not be doing that kind of thing. Our ratio has to be a lot higher. Edited February 22, 2018 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I've read and heard it stated that highly professional and purposely planted disinformation stories are usually a "mix" of truths and falsehoods. That this mix is the most successful way to really cloud and confuse. The National Enquirer has been doing this for years. Hence, when I see and read a NE article on some very important and controversial national story I always remember to keep in mind this dis-info formula and figure half the story is probably true. I believe that half the information shared in the TMWKK series is also probably true. Sensationalized or not, I still re-watch many of it's episodes. Many of the interviews are extremely thought provoking and many of the interviewees come across to me a unsophisticatedly honest and sincere. Edited March 21, 2018 by Joe Bauer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) I would put the ratio lower than that. For example, you know the whole Steve Rivele thing from the first part turned out to be BS? And you know all the problems with Badgeman, don't you? And IMO, that was the best part. The other segments went downhill from there. Edited February 22, 2018 by James DiEugenio Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 No one has ever found Gordon Arnold in any film or photo, except the White-Mack "Badgeman" enlargement/colorization. Yet Arnold is the source of all stories that there was uniformed police officer behind the GK fence. How one wishes the Arnold story could be proved or disproved, not the least by finding or not finding Arnold where he is said to have been. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick McTague Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 2 hours ago, David Andrews said: No one has ever found Gordon Arnold in any film or photo, except the White-Mack "Badgeman" enlargement/colorization. Yet Arnold is the source of all stories that there was uniformed police officer behind the GK fence. How one wishes the Arnold story could be proved or disproved, not the least by finding or not finding Arnold where he is said to have been. ... and to view the film that said policeman stole from his camera. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Josephs Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) Even if Arnold was where he claimed... the size proves him wrong. While the ground is higher, the size of the man does not fit. There's only one shooter in Moorman at the far left in red.... peering over the fence. This is a big image... with the sky in place, there is no Badgeman or hatman and Arnold disappears as well... As I see it at least... DJ Edited March 26, 2018 by David Josephs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Andrews Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 There's only one shooter in Moorman at the far left in red.... peering over the fence. Where do you place that, David? At the red dot in the bottom pic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
James DiEugenio Posted February 24, 2018 Share Posted February 24, 2018 Good question. But don't you see one on the right also, right also? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe Bauer Posted March 21, 2018 Share Posted March 21, 2018 Bumping this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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