Paul Trejo Posted May 22, 2018 Author Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) 12 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, Your question is interesting. I might say your question is another way of asking: What has New Orleans got to do with the assassination? From a historiography perspective, New Orleans is relevant because that's where Jim Garrison did most of his work. But didn't Jim Garrison say the CIA-did-it, both in his books and in the Oliver Stone movie JFK? 1. Serious students of the assassination believe LHO is a right winger?.........(according to Jim Garrison) 2. The CIA analysis of Jim Garrison's work invokes the extreme Right, so why is the CIA concerned?3. Guy Bannister was an extreme right winger or a CIA operative? 4. Does David Ferrie reactivate his former teenage student Lee Harvey Oswald into the Anti-Castro efforts in New Orleans as Garrison says? 5. Is Garrison telling us that Oswald's patsyhood and the entire assassination begin with the 21JUL63 FBI raid on the anti-Castro Cuban camp at Lake Pontchartrain? Hi Jason, The problem of Jim Garrison is one of the most interesting in all of 20th cetury US history. Jim Garrison surprised the world with his material evidence that New Orleans was a key feature of the JFK assassination. Jeff Caufield (2015) who maintains a Walker-did-it CT, says that he had access to all of Jim Garrison's papers in his reasearch. Jeff Caufield told me personally that in his opinion, Jim Garrison's first CT was that the Radical-Right-did-it, and that he only changed his position when he realized he would get no official help from anybody in the US Government (or in Dallas) for his important research. It was a matter of personal safety that led Garrison to blame the CIA -- because the CIA does not hit back. To address your numbered questions and documented sources: 1. I wholeheartedly agree with Jim Garrison that "serious students" of the JFK Assassination believe that LHO was a right winger. *** I myself maintain that LHO was an extreme right-winger in New Orleans. *** LHO was also a moderate right-winger (a Marine) since 1957, except for one brief period in early 1963, when he came under the influence of George De Mohrenschildt, a braggart who put on airs of being a CIA agent. Actually, George did some Russian translation for the FBI and CIA on occasion, and was certainly never a CIA official. *** Yet, believing that George De Mohrenschildt was a CIA operative, and might help get LHO a job in the CIA, our young LHO clung to old George. *** When George DM made it clear to LHO that George hated General Walker with a purple passion, our young and naive LHO made fast plans to please George by killing General Walker. (That's been my CT for longer than I've been on this Forum). *** George DM and his young engineer pal, Volkmar Schmidt, who both bad-mouthed General Walker -- certainly didn't want LHO to kill General Walker. They were both shocked by this outrage, and they distanced themselves from LHO immediately and forever. *** After this stupid act -- which LHO probably regretted as soon as he saw that George and Volkmar ran away -- LHO returned to the Right wing. *** Why LHO moved to New Orleans -- within days after the Walker shooting -- is unclear to all CTers for the past half-century. *** In my CT, General Walker learned of LHO's name (from Voshinin/FBI) in connection with this attempt on his life, and called his friends in the Right Wing immediately (Easter Sunday 14 April 1963). *** Walker quickly learned from his many rightist contacts in New Orleans that David Ferrie, who worked closely under Guy Banister, had known LHO since childhood. *** In my CT, Walker, Banister, Ferrie and Shaw hatched a plan to get revenge on LHO (starting on Easter Sunday 14 April 1963). *** If LHO wanted to be in the CIA so badly, they would promise LHO a guaranteed job in the CIA. All LHO had to do was to kill Fidel Castro. *** According to their secret plan, if LHO could kill Fidel Castro, he would be forgiven. Otherwise, LHO would be framed so perfectly that LHO could be killed anywhere in the USA with impunity. 2. There is never any reason to bring the CIA into the JFK Assassination when all the material evidence points to the Radical Right wing. They are two, vastly separate entities. *** According to Jeff Caufield, the original work of Jim Garrison was a focus on the Radical Right wing -- and he could get data on New Orleans players, but he failed to get information on Dallas players. He turned to the CIA-did-it CT for sheer safety. 3. The same applies to Guy Banister. When we recognize that he was a Radical Right leader -- a racist who ran for public office on the platform of racially segregating Louisiana Public Schools -- there is no need to bring the CIA into the picture. 4. I think that Jim Garrison is 100% correct to recognize that David Ferrie reactivated his former teenage student Lee Harvey Oswald into Radical Right politics in New Orleans. *** Jim Garrison did historians a massive service -- single-handedly -- with his discovery of a Radical Right plot in New Orleans to frame LHO as a Fake FPCC Communist. 5. I personally doubt that Oswald's patsyhood began with the 21 July 1963 FBI raid on the Cuba Raid camp at Lake Pontchartrain, led by David Ferrie on land owned by Carlos Marcello. *** As an aside, the name of Carlos Marcello was an alias. It means 'Karl Marx' in Spanish. It was a joke, of course. Even Mafia bosses have a sense of humor. *** In my opinion, since Oswald created a Fake FPCC in May 1963, his patsification began after the Walker shooting. I think the timeline supports this theory. *** Now, it may be possible that Walker and Banister obtained extra support from their Rightist lackeys, like Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall and Larry Howard, to kill JFK on the basis of this FBI shutdown of their Cuba Raid camp on 21 July 1963. *** It is likely that the JFK Assassination itself was not hatched early in the year, but it became more and more plausible as the year unfolded. *** It is interesting that LHO was in New Orleans when this FBI raid occurred on a Cuba Raid camp in which LHO was involved. *** Yet the first stirrings of the JFK Assassination -- in my opinion -- can be seen in the murder of NAACP hero Medgar Evers in his driveway in Mississippi very early in the morning of 12 June 1963. *** On the night of 11 June 1963 JFK appeared on television to announce that he supported Rev. Martin Luther King, Jr. in his plea for Civil Rights in the USA. *** Actually, it was less than six hours after this JFK speech that Medgar Evers was shot and killed. *** Medgar Evers was best known for advising James Meredith in his bid to be the first Black American to attend Ole Miss University in September 1962. *** It was at Ole Miss that General Walker took his greatest political defeat -- not only in the failure of his massive and deadly protest march at Ole Miss on 30 September 1962, but also in Walker's involuntary commitment to a US Army insane asylum the very next morning, on 01 October 1962, ordered by JFK and RFK. All best, --Paul Edited May 22, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 (edited) On 5/21/2018 at 10:40 PM, Paul Trejo said: Jeff Caufield told me personally that in his opinion, Jim Garrison's first CT was that the Radical-Right-did-it, Hi Paul, Obviously I have no doubt Dr Caufield told you that Garrison's first CT was a Radical-Right-did-it explanation for the assassination. I believe that Caufield inspected Garrison's files and today we find evidence as to why Caufield would tell you this (see document 1 below). However, I have to be honest and say that once believing the Radical Right is to blame and then switching to a CIA-did-it narrative really doesn't make sense. 1. According to Jim Garrison's discovered witness Rudloph Davis, the Lake Pontchartrain training camp was a creation of the John Birch Society. In interviews, Garrison says the FBI raid on this camp is the last straw that solidifies anti-JFK sentiment and begins the assassination plans. So why does assassination lore equate the camp, David Ferrie, and the CIA? Why not the JBS instead? SOURCE 1 - HSCA Segregated CIA files, Jim Garrison Investigations, Reel 25, Folder F, Volume 4, NARA 1994.05.06.08:46:54:280005 the CIA didn't kill Kennedy Edited June 23, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted May 22, 2018 Share Posted May 22, 2018 Paul what do you think of individuals such as David Morales, William King Harvey? Rip Robertson? or Felipe Vidal Santiago? I don't mean to put you on the spot with individuals such as these (these are just a quick few I thought of and who would require volumes or hours of discussion) but your general view of them in the context of possible JFK assassination conspirators? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) On 5/22/2018 at 12:07 PM, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, Obviously I have no doubt Dr Caufield told you that Garrison's first CT was a Radical-Right-did-it explanation for the assassination. I believe that Caufield inspected Garrison's files and today we find evidence as to why Caufield would tell you this (see document 1 below). However, I have to be honest and say that once believing the Radical Right is to blame and then switching to a CIA-did-it narrative really doesn't make sense. 1. According to Jim Garrison's discovered witness Rudloph Davis, the Lake Pontchartrain training camp was a creation of the John Birch Society. In interviews, Garrison says the FBI raid on this camp is the last straw that solidifies anti-JFK sentiment and begins the assassination plans. So why does assassination lore equate the camp, David Ferrie, and the CIA? Why not the JBS instead? Hi Jason, The work of Jim Garrison shows a large quantity of investigation of the Radical Right in Louisiana and the USA South generally, and then he suddenly shifted to blaming the CIA near the end of his work, in 1968, when the Trial of Clay Shaw came to court (with flimsy evidence). The turning point was possibly when David Ferrie turned up dead -- either by suicide or murder. If it was a murder, I see no reason to blame the CIA rather than to blame the Radical Right. The Radical Right was just as willing to commit murder for its cause as any other fanatical group. (The murder of Medgar Evers on June 12, 1963, and the bombing of the 16th Street Baptist Church on September 15, 1963, provide sufficient evidence.) With the death of David Ferrie on February 22, 1967, the case of Jim Garrison was also dead. This may have contributed to his change of heart. One should know something about the John Birch Society, however. Even though most JBS members were middle class true-believers who never suspected foul play in the group -- those who organized it from the beginning knew the model -- in fighting the "Communist Party model" of local activism, the JBS imitated the Communist Party model of local activism. This was part of its vast power in the South -- the JBS consisted of local cells with an organized head which was well-funded. At a certain point, its allies included the coast-to-coast, heavily armed militia of the Minutemen. This was no militia of the US government. This was a coast-to-coast militia dedicated to toppling the US Government, which it called the "Eastern Establishment." They convinced each other that Washington DC was Communist, through and through. Based on this ideology, JFK was "wanted for treason." Yet Jim Garrison could not find enough data to solve his case. He had hoped that somebody in Dallas would step forward. To push this along, he floated a lie that he really had some secret person in Dallas already, who was gathering all available data. Yet the plotters in Dallas merely had to stick together and keep their mouths shut. This alone would guarantee that Jim Garrison's case would fail. All best, --Paul Edited May 23, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted May 23, 2018 Author Share Posted May 23, 2018 (edited) On 5/22/2018 at 6:44 PM, B. A. Copeland said: Paul what do you think of individuals such as David Morales, William King Harvey? Rip Robertson? or Felipe Vidal Santiago? I don't mean to put you on the spot with individuals such as these (these are just a quick few I thought of and who would require volumes or hours of discussion) but your general view of them in the context of possible JFK assassination conspirators? B.A. Copeland, In general, I have carefully examined the careers of these individuals in relation to the CIA-did-it CT when I was a CIA-did-it CTer 15 years ago. I am confident that David Morales was involved in the JFK Assassination at a lower level, as a rogue CIA officer. I am confident that Morales recruited the mercenary (and sometime CIA asset) Frank Sturgis to cooperate in this plot -- and I am confident that Frank Sturgis recruited CIA officer E. Howard Hunt. I am confident in these three, because they all confessed to an involvement. Nevertheless, I also feel confident that just because these three confessed to a role in the JFK Assassination, is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the CIA-did-it. Not in the slightest. Actually, all it means is that two rogue CIA officers, and one mercenary confessed to a role in the JFK Assassination. Yet how did they act, then, as rogues? In my CT, they all joined a Civilian JFK plot, namely, the one led in Dallas by General Walker. As for William Harvey -- I find no role at all for him. We cannot claim that everybody who hated JFK and RFK was a plotter in the Dallas murder of JFK. William Harvey admittedly hated RFK and JFK -- and would have joined a plot if he could -- but by 1963 he was living in Italy with a reputation of being a total drunkard from morning until night. He was an alcoholic -- a ruined man. While it is true that several Cuba raiders referred to Harvey's guidelines for political assassination, these were not unique plans. Rip Robertson is more complicated. A CIA officer in the 1940's, and an active agent in South American politics, and one of the players in the Bay of Pigs invasion, he was deeply resentful of JFK and RFK following the failure of the Bay of Pigs. Then he joined the JM WAVE station in Miami, and became part of the Bayo-Pawley mission to intercept two ranking Soviet defectors in Cuba. David Morales was also part of that mission, and so was John Martino. Larry Hancock maintains that John Martino had first-hand knowledge of the JFK Assassination, and I place a lot of weight in Larry Hancock's objective scholarship (as well as in his scholastic relationship with Bill Simpich). As with David Morales and E. Howard Hunt, I can accept the status of Rip Robertson as a rogue CIA guy who joined the Civilian plot in Dallas. (Larry Hancock, for example, records that John Martino was an active speaker in the John Birch Society in 1963.) Like Frank Sturgis, civilian John Martino was no CIA officer, but only a fanatic mercenary. Other civilian names associated with Rip Robertson include Roy Hargraves, Gerry Patrick Hemming and Felipe Vidal Santiago. Santiago was a Cuban naval officer who opposed Fidel Castro in 1959. In 1961 he joined Interpen, along with Hemming, Hargraves, Loran Hall and Larry Howard, and made Cuba raids with them. According to Dick Russell (TMWKTM, 1993) Felipe Santiago was an information channel to General Walker in Dallas. Larry Hancock (SWHT, 2003) agrees with this. Some researchers claim that they have photographic evidence of Felipe Santiago on the Grassy Knoll with Roy Hargraves. Some claim photo evidence of Rip Robertson on the corner of Main and Houston in Dealey Plaza. I accept as a good possibility that these Radical Right mercenaries eventually joined a plot with CIA rogues to support General Walker in a Dallas-based plot to kill JFK. The only question is the role that they played. For example, E. Howard Hunt himself claimed to have a role "on the sidelines." Felipe Santiago reported that General Walker at one point "lost interest in the Cuban Exiles." If that's correct, then that was because he had enough fanatical, local volunteers among the Radical Right inside Dallas. BOTTOM LINE: No CIA plot. These players worked within a local Dallas plot, led by General Walker. I think Felipe Santiago's mention -- along with Gerry Patrick Hemming's mention, and Loran Hall's mention of General Walker -- provides ample reason to keep digging inside Dallas. There's my opinion. All best, --Paul Edited June 4, 2018 by Paul Trejo typos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, Paul Trejo said: I accept as a good possibility that these Radical Right mercenaries eventually joined a plot with CIA rogues to support General Walker in a Dallas-based plot to kill JFK. Hi Paul, I think some of those who have the CIA running the assassination likewise incorporate some rogue Radical Right players as an admitted possibility. The problem in all theories is in connecting an identifiable leader with the ground crew in Dallas. In this thread we've spotted cops who are obviously part of the conspiracy. But who are the cops in bed with, or following? IMO the likes of Buddy Walthers are ideologically, culturally, and of course physically closer to General Walker and the southern Radical Right than anyone in Washington or the CIA. In many cases these cop types in Dallas distrust or sometimes despise the entire federal apparatus, CIA/FBI included. I think it's farfetched to imagine Sheriff Decker working with east coast elites like the Dulles brothers or Bush family. All CTs are missing a link. Jason Edited May 24, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Clark Posted May 24, 2018 Share Posted May 24, 2018 16 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, I think some of those who have the CIA running the assassination likewise incorporate some rogue Radical Right players as an admitted possibility. The problem in all theories is in connecting an identifiable leader with the ground crew in Dallas. Jason Absolutely, And not conversely but inherently in Paul Trejo’s argument, the main players were ALL CIA, but they were on a lunch-break at 12:30 on 11-22-63; i.e, they were rogue CIA conspirators. For Paul Trejo, defining those who were rogue CIA is simply a matter of identifying those CIA agents who were involved. Paul Trejo is a CIA apologist. Figuritively, I am a hare’s breath (or is it a Hair’s breadth) from you guys on our CT’s. You have a Dallas Cop or Minuteman firing from the knoll and being (figuratively) tossed in a trunk and spirited away; while I have an Anti-Castro Cuban firing from the knoll and (figuratively) disposed-of in the same manner. I know you don’t like being pegged as a CTer, Jason, but, you are. You simply raise numerous CT’s as plausible and stand behind none; while Paul Trejo stands behind one, pretending he can make of it whatever he would like it to be, at any turn. In any event, Jason, thanks for the digging; it IS work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted May 25, 2018 Author Share Posted May 25, 2018 23 hours ago, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, I think some of those who have the CIA running the assassination likewise incorporate some rogue Radical Right players as an admitted possibility. The problem in all theories is in connecting an identifiable leader with the ground crew in Dallas. In this thread we've spotted cops who are obviously part of the conspiracy. But who are the cops in bed with, or following? IMO the likes of Buddy Walthers are ideologically, culturally, and of course physically closer to General Walker and the southern Radical Right than anyone in Washington or the CIA. In many cases these cop types in Dallas distrust or sometimes despise the entire federal apparatus, CIA/FBI included. I think it's farfetched to imagine Sheriff Decker working with east coast elites like the Dulles brothers or Bush family. All CTs are missing a link. Jason Hi Jason, Thanks for this recognition of the weaknesses of all the major CT's out there -- the CIA-did-it, the Mafia-did-it, Hoover-did-it, LBJ-did it, or the Communists-did-it. We have plausible suspects in Dallas, deep inside the Dallas Police and Deputies, whose actions as revealed in their WC testimony makes them collectively, "Suspect Number One." The question now, is to describe -- by using material evidence only -- how they were organized -- who were the leaders -- and who were the followers. I think that we have the basics as follows: (1) the leaders in the Dallas Police were the actual high-ranking men inside the Dallas Police, namely, Chief Jesse Curry and Captain Will Fritz; (2) the leaders among the Dallas Deputies were the high-ranking men inside the Dallas Sheriff's Office, namely, Sheriff Bill Decker, Deputy Buddy Walthers and Deputy Luke Mooney; (3) the leaders among the Dallas FBI were James Hosty and James Bookhout; (4) the leader inside the Dallas Secret Service was Forrest Sorrels; and (5) the leader inside the USPD was postal inspector Harry Holmes. There were others underneath these men -- and most of them tended to have titles. This was, in my opinion, a well-organized plot by the Dallas Police and Deputies, with the assistance of the local branches of the FBI and Secret Service, and the local USPD office. I want to emphasize my opinion there -- that the Dallas FBI and the Dallas Secret Service plotted against JFK -- not the Washington DC offices of the FBI or Secret Service. That distinction is crucial. The key tendency of the Dallas plotters was an impatience to frame Lee Harvey Oswald as a Communist member of the FPCC, and that therefore the Communists-did-it. This tendency arises often within the WC testimony of these men. While I recognize that there were rogues within the CIA who confessed long ago to some role in the JFK Assassination, they could not have controlled Dallas as thoroughly s the Dallas Police and Deputies. They could not have controlled the crime scenes, the witnesses, the suspects, the suspects families and friends -- as well as the Dallas Police and Deputies. What, then, did these CIA rogues do? In my opinion, Jim Garrison in 1968 had identified their main roles -- almost entirely limited to New Orleans -- establishing the illusion for Lee Harvey Oswald that he was part of a legitimate Intelligence Team to kill Fidel Castro -- and that he would be greatly rewarded once that task was completed. Jim Garrison mainly identified the players around 544 Camp Street in New Orleans (and BTW I visited that location to see it close up). Joan Mellen also identified and interviewed many of them. Not one was a genuine CIA officer -- yet they all claimed to be CIA officers. An elaborate illusion was provided for Lee Harvey Oswald -- lasting several months, and taking him to Mexico City at the end of the summer of 1963. The names included Roy Hargraves, Gerry Patrick Hemming, Loran Hall and Larry Howard -- and these were active players in New Orleans and Lake Pontchartrian there. In Mexico City (according to Harry Dean) Loran Hall and Larry Howard drove Lee Harvey Oswald to Mexico City as a passenger in their car. As for the telephone impersonation of Lee Harvey Oswald in Mexico City on October 1, 1963, I suspect CIA agent David Morales -- not anybody else -- because the operation was delicate -- it involved inside knowledge that the Cuba Consulate line to the Soviet Embassy was the single most wire-tapped telephone on planet earth. Only a CIA agent would know that. Next, it involved news from the Soviet Embassy that Lee Harvey Oswald, in his bumbling, had spoken with KGB assassin Valeriy Kostikov (without knowing it). This opportunity could not be missed -- that chance meeting must be made a matter of the CIA record there. Thus, a savvy CIA agent risked the telephone impersonation. The CIA translators figure out it was an impersonation within minutes. That started the Simpich Mole Hunt (2014). All the other CIA rogues who were vouching for the death of JFK, were also smart enough to stand behind people with a higher rank inside their secret plot. The highest ranking was David Morales. After him, E. Howard Hunt. After him, perhaps Rip Robertson. All others were citizens with no titles, like Frank Sturgis and John Martino. They did what they were told -- when they could be trusted to be team players. Anyway -- at the tippy top of the Dallas plot I find that the one thing the Dallas plotters all had in common was Radical Right ideology as voiced by the John Birch Society and the Minutemen in Dallas. The most outspoken leader in these two groups was General Edwin Walker. He deserves a careful examination, I believe -- starting with his WC testimony -- but also adding elements from his personal papers, and from the daily press in late 1963. Finally, if we can find anything in the new JFK Act Release of 26 Oct 2017 of 35,000 pages of unredacted text about the Dallas Police and Deputies -- and General Walker -- then I feel sure that would help enormously. All best, --Paul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paz Marverde Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 3/24/2018 at 5:56 AM, Michael Clark said: Earle Cabell was........... CIA Exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 On 5/21/2018 at 10:40 PM, Paul Trejo said: *** In my opinion, since Oswald created a Fake FPCC in May 1963, his patsification began after the Walker shooting. I think the timeline supports this theory Hi Paul, FBI agent Hosty says Oswald had FPCC contact right around the time of the Walker shooting on 10APR63. Correlation does not imply causation. However, correlation does imply correlation so I have to ask how the shooting of General Walker in April is related to Oswald's April move to New Orleans, and the April(?) contact between the FPCC and LHO? SOURCE HSCA Administrative Folder, Lee Harvey Oswald, Vol. 6. NARA 124-10369-10018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Brancato Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 Reading this long thread is so frustrating. Every one of the CIA wannabes Trejo mentions worked for real CIA agents in real CIA operations. They were contracted by CIA. So when Trejo says they weren’t actual CIA agents it’s a distinction without meaning. All of the operatives, all of the CIA agents involved, all of the Dallas cops and Dallas officials were right wing, some very right wing. So another distinction without meaning is what Trejo calls ultra right. Some were in government, some in the military, some in CIA, and some were cops, or civilians, or ex military. Why limit the term ultra right to cops, civilians, and ex military? Was Walker really more right wing than Lemnitzer and LeMay? How does he not include Angleton and Dulles when looking at the right? Trejo and Ward would like to pigeonhole Garrison as first believing it was the ultra right and then switching to the CIA. Mort Sahl, who worked with Garrison for 4 years, says Garrison referred to the US as the Fourth Reich, as a fascist government. It was Clay Shaw who he prosecuted, without having a great deal of info on Permindex or on Shaw. You do Garrison a great disservice when you ignore that, and ignore the wealth of information revealing who was involved in Permindex and CMC. Why do you suppose the Canadian Government has refused to release Bloomfield’s private papers from exactly the years we care about 1961-63? Not curious? Trejo seeks to prove that Walker ran the operation, and to that end he is looking for ties between Dallas cops and officials and Walker and the Minutemen. Fine - I agree. But it’s one dimensional. Why dismiss the ties between those same suspects and reserve military units for example? Why not at least put that on the radar? Where is Jack Ruby in Trejo’s theory? Where is David Atlee Phillips, or his and Ruby’s close friend Gordon McLendon? Not curious? Why do you settle on Walker as the culprit and then attempt to squeeze anything that fits, and toss out or mischaracterize everything pointing in other directions? It backwards. Look at it all before you decide. When you call people like me CIA-did-it conspiracy theorists it’s the pot calling the kettle black. You’re the one who’s wedded to a theory, who can write a post mentioning several CIA officers and several more CIA contractors and then dismiss it all as peripheral, based only on how well it fits your theory. Neither the researchers you criticize, or the ones you quote with reverence, would buy into your methodology. By all means - Jason - show us the goods connecting the DPD with Walker. And while you’re at it, keep a look out for other connections as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
B. A. Copeland Posted May 25, 2018 Share Posted May 25, 2018 (edited) On 5/23/2018 at 1:29 PM, Paul Trejo said: My responses in green: B.A. Copeland, In general, I have carefully examined the careers of these individuals in relation to the CIA-did-it CT when I was a CIA-did-it CTer 15 years ago. I am confident that David Morales was involved in the JFK Assassination at a lower level, as a rogue CIA officer. I am confident that Morales recruited the mercenary (and sometime CIA asset) Frank Sturgis to cooperate in this plot -- and I am confident that Frank Sturgis recruited CIA officer E. Howard Hunt. I am confident in these three, because they all confessed to an involvement. Nevertheless, I also feel confident that just because these three confessed to a role in the JFK Assassination, is no reason to jump to the conclusion that the CIA-did-it. Personally, and today of course, I just cannot put the hit on "the CIA". I believe that elements were involved but I am open to evidence. Personally I'd say that I am not a "CIA did it" student of the assassination. Not in the slightest. Actually, all it means is that two rogue CIA officers, and one mercenary confessed to a role in the JFK Assassination. Yet how did they act, then, as rogues? In my CT, they all joined a Civilian JFK plot, namely, the one led in Dallas by General Walker. With all the documents missing, destroyed, hidden/classified, and even with whats been released, I cannot in good conscience eliminate the possibility that it wasn't merely a civilian plot. As for William Harvey -- I find no role at all for him. We cannot claim that everybody who hated JFK and RFK was a plotter in the Dallas murder of JFK. William Harvey admittedly hated RFK and JFK -- and would have joined a plot if he could -- but by 1963 he was living in Italy with a reputation of being a total drunkard from morning until night. He was an alcoholic -- a ruined man. While it is true that several Cuba raiders referred to Harvey's guidelines for political assassination, these were not unique plans. If I'm not mistaken, the HSCA believed he was a suspect? I could be wrong. I cannot dare dismiss Harvey as a possible mastermind, even Simpich agrees with this line of thought. I cannot imagine Morales involvement in the hit and not Harvey but again, I could be wrong and I'm open to evidence. With Harvey's expertise as an officer, there is certainly a role (or roles?) for him but I haven't come across any evidence as to what that may have been in my personal study of the case but again, I dare not dismiss him. According to Dick Russell (TMWKTM, 1993) Felipe Santiago was an information channel General Walker in Dallas. Larry Hancock (SWHT, 2003) agrees with this. Some researchers claim that they have photographic evidence of Felipe Santiago on the Grassy Knoll with Roy Hargraves. Some claim photo evidence of Rip Robertson on the corner of Main and Houston in Dealey Plaza. I know of some very astute students/researchers of the assassination who connect dots and conclude, reasonably that Santiago was deeply involved (hit team status) and is possibly "dark complected man". Santiago should be deeply studied and I believe there is a study of the vehicle in the Walker photo who's plate is cut out is possibly linked to Santiago. He is absolutely worthy of study. I accept as a good possibility that these Radical Right mercenaries eventually joined a plot with CIA rogues to support General Walker in a Dallas-based plot to kill JFK. The only question is the role that they played. For example, E. Howard Hunt himself claimed to have a role "on the sidelines." You seem (I could be wrong) to make out that Walker was the/a mastermind. I simply do not read the evidence that way. Doug Campbell theorizes that Walker was probably brought into the plot by way of the DPD using a false story re: LHO/RFK/JFK and that the DPD representative who may have told him such false news was none other than Westbrook (Campbell's theory). Felipe Santiago reported that General Walker at one point "lost interest in the Cuban Exiles." If that's correct, then that was because he had enough fanatical, local volunteers among the Radical Right inside Dallas. BOTTOM LINE: No CIA plot. These players worked within a local Dallas plot, led by General Walker. I think Felipe Santiago's mention -- along with Gerry Patrick Hemming's mention, and Loran Hall's mention of General Walker -- provides ample reason to keep digging inside Dallas. There's my opinion. Well if by "CIA plot" you mean an officially sanctioned murder of the POTUS wholesale then I suppose I agree? However, I strongly believe that possible CIA personnel, high level CIA personnel were involved. I also agree that Dallas should be a focus but not the focus. I'd wager that Mexico City is also where a strong focus should be until we know, without a doubt, just what the hell happened there. I love what Simpich says when he says "I think these guys figured out a way to go after Kennedy and did it" and for now, I'll settle on that as I continue studying and learning who "these guys" were. All best, --Paul Edited May 25, 2018 by B. A. Copeland Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) On 5/25/2018 at 12:33 PM, Jason Ward said: Hi Paul, FBI agent Hosty says Oswald had FPCC contact right around the time of the Walker shooting on 10APR63. Correlation does not imply causation. However, correlation does imply correlation so I have to ask how the shooting of General Walker in April is related to Oswald's April move to New Orleans, and the April(?) contact between the FPCC and LHO? Hi Jason, The Assistant Director of the FBI, Alan Belmont, specifically told the Warren Commission that the FBI carefully checked out the claims that Lee Harvey Oswald was involved with the FPCC back in Dallas in April 1963, and the FBI flatly concluded that the claim was false. Here is the actual WC testimony. Mr. STERN - Question 8, Mr. Belmont, on page 5, sets out the information from a report by Agent Hosty regarding alleged Fair Play for Cuba Committee activity by Oswald while he was still residing in Dallas. Have you found that an investigation was conducted to determine whether that was accurate and do you think it should have been investigated? Mr. BELMONT - As to whether he was active with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Dallas? We did check. We have rather excellent coverage of such activities. There is no evidence whatsoever to indicate that he was active with the Fair Play for Cuba Committee in Dallas. And, as a matter of fact, I can go a step further and say that following his dissemination of pamphlets and his activities in New Orleans, our inquiry of our sources who are competent to tell us what is going on in the organizations such as Fair Play for Cuba Committee, advised that he was not known to them in New Orleans. So that his activities in New Orleans were of his own making, and not as a part of the organized activities of the Fair Play for Cuba Committee. Therefore, despite the falsehoods that Dallas FBI agent James Hosty tried to spread regarding Lee Harvey Oswald -- even early in 1963 -- he had no support in Washington DC among the FBI. So, now, Jason, as to your question about how the shooting at General Walker on April 10, 1963 was related to Oswald's move to New Orleans on April 24, and his later connection with the FPCC in the summer of 1963, here is my opinion. 1. We must first recognize that Lee Harvey Oswald discussed a move to New Orleans, with Marina, obtaining her strong approval, on April 17, 1963. This was only one week after the Walker shooting. 2. Marina Oswald told the WC that she strongly approved Lee's moving to New Orleans, because she was terrified that the police were looking for Oswald with regard to the Walker shooting, and she wanted him to get out of Dallas as quickly as possible. 3. On the afternoon of April 24, 1963, as Ruth Paine testified, she and her babies drove to Neely Street in Dallas to visit the expectant Marina Oswald and her baby, to enjoy a walk in the local park. Ruth was stunned to see Lee Harvey Oswald there. His bags were packed and he asked her for a ride to the Greyhound bus station, to leave his bags there before he moved to New Orleans -- alone. 4. Lee's plan was to buy two tickets -- one for himself and one for Marina -- but leave Marina alone in the Neely Street apartment for a few weeks until he found work in New Orleans, and then she would take the bus to New Orleans. 5. Ruth was outraged by this unloving proposal. Any normal man would take his wife and baby with him, wherever he was going (especially to a relative's house). Ruth at that point believed Marina's continual complaints that Lee Harvey Oswald wanted to abandon Marina and June, and even send them back to the USSR if he could -- because he was a failure at supporting them. 6. Ruth drove everybody to the Greyhound station, and there Ruth decided that she would finally propose what was on her mind for two solid months -- to invite Marina and June to come and live with her. 7. Oddly, Lee Harvey Oswald immediately jumped at that prospect. He took Marina Oswald's bus ticket back and cashed it in. He split the cash with Marina. Lee left his bags with Greyhound, and then they all drove back to Neely Street and Lee single-handedly loaded up Ruth Paine's station wagon with all of their meager belongings. Ruth was delighted to have Marina and June live with her and her two babies for a few weeks. 8. While Lee Harvey Oswald was in New Orleans -- specifically on May 26, 1963 (a full month after he moved there) -- he first wrote to the FPCC in New York City, asking their permission to establish a branch in New Orleans. They soon wrote back denying LHO a branch. LHO set it up anyway. 9. OK, now for my conclusion. 10. Lee was laid off from Jaggars-Chiles-Stovall on April 1, 1963, for poor performance. He delayed telling Marina as long as he could. His last day there was April 6, 1963. Ruth Paine had no idea about this, because Marina never told Ruth. 11. Lee took a pot-shot at General Walker on April 10, 1963 knowing he had no further work in Dallas -- and since he was laid off by J-C-S for poor performance -- they would not give him a positive reference for another job. 12. Four days later, on the late night of Saturday, April 13, 1963, George and Jeanne De Mohrenschildt got the Oswalds out of bed with the ruse of bringing baby June a toy Easter bunny from the local drug store. Actually, they wanted an answer nagging at them with every news report of the Dallas police seeking the shooter(s) at General Walker the previous Wednesday. 13. George and Jeanne were really looking for evidence that Lee was as wacky as he seemed. Jeanne asked Marina to show her around her apartment, and Jeanne snooped around until she found it -- a military rifle with a scope on it, there in the Oswald closet. 14. Jeanne shouted out to George, "Here is a rifle!" George asked Lee, "Lee, did you take a pot-shot at General Walker?" Lee froze and did not answer. He looked at Marina, who also froze. Marina looked back. They looked at George. George started laughing. Then they all started laughing. That cut the ice. Then the De Mohrenschildt's politely said goodnight, and left -- never to see the Oswalds again in their lives. 15. Early the next morning, George visited his best friends in Dallas, Igor and Natasha Voshinin, and over coffee, he told them his deep suspicions about Lee Harvey Oswald. Igor and Natasha never liked the Oswalds. They advised George to instantly tell the FBI. George said he could not do that, and he left. 16. The moment George left them, Natasha picked up the telephone and called the Dallas FBI, telling them everything that George had just told the Voshinins. 17. Numbers 12 to 16 above are from the report by Dick Russell (TMWKTM, 1993). My personal opinion begins now. 18. The Dallas FBI immediately told General Walker about the suspicion that Lee Harvey Oswald was his shooter. 19. General Walker then called all of his friends in the Radical Right -- from Georgia to Mississippi to Louisiana. When he told Guy Banister, Guy noted quickly that his close associate, David Ferrie, knew LHO in childhood, and had LHO's confidence. They could manipulate LHO for Walker. 20. A deal was made. Guy Banister and David Ferrie and their team at 544 Camp Street would involve LHO in their various Radical Right schemes. 21. Perhaps David Ferrie was able to contact Lee Harvey Oswald in the next few days, and make some attractive offers and promises of CIA employment (which Ferrie could not legally make, since Ferrie was never a CIA officer himself; yet the lie was more important than the truth here). 22. In any case, we know from WC testimony that Lee and Marina discussed his moving to New Orleans only 7 days after the Walker shooting. She strongly encouraged Lee to get out of Dallas. 24. By April 24th, only two weeks after the Walker shooting, Lee Harvey Oswald arrived in New Orleans, and lived with his aunt and uncle for two weeks. 25. Lee got a job at Reily Coffee Company. This was literally across the street from 544 Camp Street. Thus, it was a myth that LHO spent all his spare time at the garage next door to Reily Coffee Company when he was missing from his duties -- the likelihood is greater that LHO spent a great deal of his time at 544 Camp Street -- to the neglect of his machine greasing duties. 25. By May 26th, Lee Harvey Oswald first contacted the FPCC. These are how the dates play out, according to the online Timeline of LHO by Tracy Parnell (of this Forum) All best, --Paul Edited May 27, 2018 by Paul Trejo clarity #16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Trejo Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 (edited) 14 hours ago, B. A. Copeland said: Personally I'd say that I am not a "CIA did it" student of the assassination... With all the documents missing, destroyed, hidden/classified, and even with whats been released, I cannot in good conscience eliminate the possibility that it wasn't merely a civilian plot... You seem (I could be wrong) to make out that Walker was the/a mastermind. I simply do not read the evidence that way. Doug Campbell theorizes that Walker was probably brought into the plot by way of the DPD using a false story re: LHO/RFK/JFK and that the DPD representative who may have told him such false news was none other than Westbrook (Campbell's theory)... I strongly believe that possible CIA personnel, high level CIA personnel were involved. I also agree that Dallas should be a focus but not the focus... I'd wager that Mexico City is also where a strong focus should be until we know, without a doubt, just what the hell happened there. I love what Simpich says when he says "I think these guys figured out a way to go after Kennedy and did it" and for now, I'll settle on that as I continue studying and learning who "these guys" were. B.A. Copeland, I'm pleased to discuss these matters with anybody who is open to a Dallas-did-it CT. You are correct to interpret my posts as part of a Walker-did-it CT. I know Doug Campbell very well, having appeared on his Podcast three times now. I am pleased that Doug is working on his own Dallas-did-it CT, and I welcome his views in this thread. I would like to discuss why Doug suspects DPD Captain William Westbrook of such a central role in the JFK plot that Westbrook would be the man who invited General Walker into the plot. As for CIA officers in the JFK plot -- I am also certain they were involved -- but at a lower level. It's not that I want Dallas to be the only focus of the JFK Assassination, yet in my opinion, Dallas has received 1% of the attention in the past 50 years, and that is unacceptable. I am certain that Mexico City is a central player in the JFK Assassination -- but not as a CIA plot. In my view, the Mexico City CIA was clueless about the role of Lee Harvey Oswald there. That was proved by Bill Simpich (2014) in his theory of the top-secret CIA Mole Hunt of October 1, 1963. There would never have been a Mole Hunt if the CIA top command knew what was going on. Instead, in my reading, Mexico City was the third site (after Dallas and New Orleans) of a Radical Right plot to assassinate JFK and blame Lee Harvey Oswald and the Communists for it. A few CIA rogues joined this civilian plot. All best, --Paul Edited May 26, 2018 by Paul Trejo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jason Ward Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 (edited) On 5/25/2018 at 5:43 PM, B. A. Copeland said: , I'll settle on that as I continue studying and learning who "these guys" were Hi B.A. Copeland, Thanks for adding some intelligent comments to the thread. IMO the method of this crime points to who "these guys" might be, and IMO the method of the assassination isn't often looked at rationally. I am not a cop nor a professional investigator, but at one point in my career I did bank and insurance-related investigations often involving major crimes. I took 4-5 classes, which, again, doesn't make me an expert. With that said, I feel fairly confident in applying a few truths from basic crime science to Dealey Plaza - and the top line item I invoke is that the method of any serious crime will 9 times out of 10 tell you a lot about who you are looking for. Forget motive. Look at method. The assassination was a wildly dangerous circus stunt. It almost failed. Trying to kill someone as they drive by in a convertible is absurd for anyone who has easy access to the president. There were 100s of witnesses, dozens of cameras, and a slew of Dallas doctors indicating a frontal shot and therefore a conspiracy. Half the witnesses heard shots from places other than the TSBD and a few witnesses saw more than one shooter. This tells me a couple things: 1. The conspirators were not Washington insiders who had easy, private, controllable access to the president. The conspirators had no choice but to take a big risk at both success and at getting caught. Professionals do not choose the most difficult, most risky method of attack. The CIA or FBI or ONI and so forth could have made it look like a heart attack, they could have had JFK killed in a private place with no witnesses, they could have controlled the doctors, they could have made sure there was no film. They could have killed JFK the way RFK was killed if they wanted a "public" job. Moreover, Washington insiders could have simply removed Kennedy with scandal - real or framed. If the CIA wants to kill, there is never a hint of any conspiracy, they pull it off perfectly. The CIA killing the president risks prison for the conspirators and risks the end of the CIA - there is simply no rational way this can be "a CIA" job unless you believe "the CIA" is criminally insane. 2. The conspiracy to kill is completely separate from the cover-up. You don't need a theatrically rabid communist like Oswald to be the official assassin if the conspirators plan a lone nut explanation. Likewise, no need for the grand public fireworks show in Dealey Plaza if the conspirators plan a Lone Nut explanation. In short, in my view everyone is caught up in motive and illogically using motive as part of the "proof" in their assassination theories. IMO the method of this crime shows an overwrought, overdramatic, needlessly risky murder which decidedly points away from a CIA which has killed or removed leaders all over the world. I talk to Paul Trejo because he sticks close to the evidence and because in my opinion the method of this crime points away from any deep CIA/government conspiracy. This is a wild west circus stunt perhaps one missed shot away from failure - that happened to succeed....and covered up professionally by those not active in the murder, it seems to me. The people who shot Kennedy have the same childish understanding of public perception as those who printed the anti JFK flyers and anti-JFK newspaper ad in that morning's Dallas Morning News. Is Walker the author of the assassination? I don't know. I believe his personality and friends are better suspects than the Ivy League elitists at the CIA. BTW, I too am very suspicious of DPD Capt. Westbrook - his Warren Commission testimony is examined in detail earlier in this thread. He's perjured himself and obviously a conspirator, IMO. I hope you'll comment or critique what I say, and thanks again for joining the thread. Jason 1. General Walker was a suspect as early as 22NOV63: 2. DPD Capt Westbrook's story doesn't add up and suggests the police are the operations crew of the assassination, IMO. SOURCES 1 - Dr Jerry Rose, "Nut Country: The Friends of General Walker." The Third Decade, Vol 5, Iss 5. July 1989. 2 - Dr Jerry Rose, The Third Decade, Vol 4, Iss 3. March 1988. Edited May 27, 2018 by Jason Ward Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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