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Trygve V. Jensen

Two questions from a rusty, outdated, former hobby-speculator.

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(Perhaps the answer(s) to my questions are already within this vast collection of information already)

-------

As it has been 8 years or so, since I even thought about this case, a lot of questions -- I guess -- have been answered, and many of course never will be. 

I did not even know that Gary Mack passed away in 2015. That was just very sad to hear. He even took of his precious time to answer quite a few questions I had -- via e-mail-correspondence, back in 2006 and 2007.

Two of those, - just out of curiousity, - I wonder if any new relevant information has surfaced - even how likely it is not. 

---------------------------------------
 
February 22, 2007:
 
**Chicago Sun-Times Sat., Nov.23, 1963 "Senator Yarborough terms it a "Deed of Horror""
Excerpt from the article in the last section: "Charles Hodges 17, a Dallas High school student said he was taking photographs of the president's car when the shooting occurred." 
 
Was it a true story?, and if so; is any of the photographs available? 
 
GM: Apparently this is a true story, although his location is unknown.  I looked into this years ago and concluded that, if the story is true, he must have been on the Stemmons Freeway overpass, which is west of the triple underpass.
 
There was a longer quote from him, or a different news story mentioned him.  My memory is that he said his view was down into the car.  In other words, he was above.  Well, the only place that could happen was the Stemmons overpass.  But he certainly could not have seen the assassination very clearly from that location.

1: Anything ?

-----------------------------------

December 17, 2006:
 
**Was there any indications made, who/if anyone taped the autopsy, and that it if so, -- in fact were in the possession of William Pitzer? And if so,  any theories of what happened to it?  
 
GM: There have been rumors in recent years that the Kennedy autopsy may have been filmed, but many in the room insist there were no cameras. 
 
2: Anything ?
Edited by Trygve V. Jensen

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1 hour ago, Trygve V. Jensen said:

(Perhaps the answer(s) to my questions are already within this vast collection of information already)

February 22, 2007:

 
**Chicago Sun-Times Sat., Nov.23, 1963 "Senator Yarborough terms it a "Deed of Horror""
Excerpt from the article in the last section: "Charles Hodges 17, a Dallas High school student said he was taking photographs of the president's car when the shooting occurred." 
 
Was it a true story?, and if so; is any of the photographs available? 
 

1: Anything ?

Trygve,

 

I looked into this several years ago. Please forgive me, I am just going by memory now. I didn't keep any notes.

If I remember correctly, Charles Hodges and one or two classmates were working on a school project having to do with Kennedy's visit to Dallas (maybe for a Social Studies or current History class?).  They took pictures at Love Field and again at Parkland Hospital. I think their story is connected to a story about a Secret Service Agent grabbing a camera from a teenager at Parkland and ripping the film out of it.

You might be able to pull up references by running a search for Hodges in the Mary Ferrell Foundation website, or by searching for Hodges in this Forum's search engine.

 

Steve Thomas

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Additional three, if anything has surfaced/been explained the last 8-10 years:

**(Attachement 3) The "shadow" in the upper right. Would he be walking that narrow section towards the pergolia (on the "inside" of the trees), or at the Elm St.-dead end-road, right along the depository? Do you know how long time it has passed since the shooting, when this was taken?  
 
GM: That's the Richard Bothun photo, taken about 30-40 seconds after the assassination.  The "shadow" is actually an unidentified person. 
 
1: I guess still unidentified?
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
**Footage of T. Craven (CBS) footage of Underwood/Sanderson (KRLD-CBS) ?  
 
GM: Apparently lost.  KRLD had technical problems and a few of the first reels out of the processor were ruined.
 
2:  Nothing ?
 
---------------------------------------------
 
**Is it established with 100% certainty that the infamous "Babushka-lady" did have a camera, or is it just indications made by people supporting conspiracy theories? 
 
GM: The Babushka Lady had a camera.  Researchers are divided over whether she has been identified correctly. 
 
3:  No relevant suggestion of identity ? 
 
 
 
 

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On 3/12/2018 at 9:27 AM, Trygve V. Jensen said:

Additional three, if anything has surfaced/been explained the last 8-10 years:

**(Attachement 3) The "shadow" in the upper right. Would he be walking that narrow section towards the pergolia (on the "inside" of the trees), or at the Elm St.-dead end-road, right along the depository? Do you know how long time it has passed since the shooting, when this was taken?  
 
GM: That's the Richard Bothun photo, taken about 30-40 seconds after the assassination.  The "shadow" is actually an unidentified person. 
 
1: I guess still unidentified?
 
----------------------------------------------------------------
 
**Footage of T. Craven (CBS) footage of Underwood/Sanderson (KRLD-CBS) ?  
 
GM: Apparently lost.  KRLD had technical problems and a few of the first reels out of the processor were ruined.
 
2:  Nothing ?
 
---------------------------------------------
 
**Is it established with 100% certainty that the infamous "Babushka-lady" did have a camera, or is it just indications made by people supporting conspiracy theories? 
 
GM: The Babushka Lady had a camera.  Researchers are divided over whether she has been identified correctly. 
 
3:  No relevant suggestion of identity ? 
 
 
 
 

 

Craven's film taken before, during and after the shots while rounding Main onto Houston, down Houston, rounding Houston onto Elm, down Elm as he panned over to the grassy knoll including the stairway and the picket fence, and from on top of the grassy knoll itself was not destroyed which is what Gary Mack meant by "lost". Neither were the two copies made of it.  Gary was only speculating here and I believe he later realized with certainty, back in 2007, that none of Craven's Dealey Plaza footage -- not even one frame of it -- was ever lost in the early developing process.

 

 

 

Edited by Ken Rheberg

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Thanks Ken! 

Appreciate it. :)

24 minutes ago, Ken Rheberg said:

 

Craven's film taken before, during and after the shots while rounding Main onto Houston, down Houston, rounding Houston onto Elm, down Elm as he panned over to the grassy knoll including the stairway and the picket fence, and from on top of the grassy knoll itself was not destroyed which is what Gary Mack meant by "lost". Neither were the two copies made of it.  Gary was only speculating here and I believe he later realized with certainty, back in 2007, that none of Craven's Dealey Plaza footage -- not even one frame of it -- was ever lost in the early developing process.

 

 

 

What are your sources to this information , that it was not destroyed. ? Anything surfaced of the film or ?

Gary's answer to me was Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:48 PM . 

I had not been aware that he perhaps, the next year with certainty , realized that none of the footage was destroyed / lost .

Through our communication in 2007,- he never mentioned anything of that to  me atleast. 

Edited by Trygve V. Jensen

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Seems there was no answer to get regarding the post above (T. Craven - footage). 

It became more than two questions. (Trying to search as well in here, to spare people of having to answer obvious questions) : 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Sunday, December 17, 2006 7:48 PM:

**Eight second footage of a policeman waving a woman away from what looks like the pavillion area or most likely the fence. Where does it come from? Couch? (Attachement 1) 
 
GM: "WBAP-TV photographer Jimmy Darnell."

From my channel: 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rBjaR2OzH20 ----- and:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ZJchNka8wk 

There is also footage of the Darnell film, on some of the clips i edited out of Evidence of Revision back then in 2006-2007. For instance the footage at the parking lot with Roger Craig, etc. etc. etc. Maybe 3mins or so,- I dunno. (Wonder why episode 3, and not 1 and 2, --- is banned in one country alone: USA . ) PBS maybe. 

Robin Unger's 49MB gif: (Sorry Robin,- your original link did not work for me) : https://giphy.com/gifs/5b0l2ZLxv0VCOyyJOw

Ed Ledoux:

Didn't remember hobby-speculating was so fun :) ---- I like to observe all views/sides regarding the assassination, whether it be the lone assassin-"side", or the conspiracy-"side".

 Today's speculating-session, led me to this Prayer-man-discussion - phenomena.

Where I amongst many other things (in addition to the origin of Evidence of Revision) , read two different accounts from Gary (shortly before he passed), - stating the Sixth floor, - has a 16mm first generation copy of the Darnell film. Which the Museum can not do anything with, because of copyright issues, or something of that nature. He struck me as a good and decent human being, - and I would like to think he was telling the truth towards the end of his life. 

The Museum denied it, as I understand, - later. That they have the film. 
---------------

* No progress/update of that situation the last 3 years ?
** In perhaps the name of "seeing-things-that-are-not-there-caused-by-imagination" - , if instead of focusing on Baker (in the gif, and youtube-video), - and focusing on the upper left, - can it not look like there is another cop running the opposite way/out from the TSBD/towards the Pergola/Elm? Westwards. 

Edit: A bunch of cops ran of course "everywhere". But maybe he has been identified ?

------------------------

As a sidenote,- it would have been interesting to accompany Gary, in his trip down the basements of NBC. Tons of boxes,rolls,vhs-tapes. 

https://www.flickr.com/photos/153357684@N03/40143189095/in/album-72157691763842682/

 

Edited by Trygve V. Jensen

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On 3/11/2018 at 1:57 PM, Steve Thomas said:

Trygve,

 

I looked into this several years ago. Please forgive me, I am just going by memory now. I didn't keep any notes.

If I remember correctly, Charles Hodges and one or two classmates were working on a school project having to do with Kennedy's visit to Dallas (maybe for a Social Studies or current History class?).  They took pictures at Love Field and again at Parkland Hospital. I think their story is connected to a story about a Secret Service Agent grabbing a camera from a teenager at Parkland and ripping the film out of it.

You might be able to pull up references by running a search for Hodges in the Mary Ferrell Foundation website, or by searching for Hodges in this Forum's search engine.

 

Steve Thomas

------------------------------

Charles Hodges :

 

Edited by Trygve V. Jensen

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On 3/12/2018 at 11:27 AM, Trygve V. Jensen said:

Additional three, if anything has surfaced/been explained the last 8-10 years:

**(Attachement 3) The "shadow" in the upper right. Would he be walking that narrow section towards the pergolia (on the "inside" of the trees), or at the Elm St.-dead end-road, right along the depository? Do you know how long time it has passed since the shooting, when this was taken?  
 
GM: That's the Richard Bothun photo, taken about 30-40 seconds after the assassination.  The "shadow" is actually an unidentified person.

Trygve,

 

I personally believe that this is the person known as "Black Dog Man". If you look at these pictures from the bottom to the top, you can follow him as he leaves the corner of the fence and is walking east down the sidewalk running between the low brick wall and the Elm St. extension.

 

bdmcomp.thumb.jpg.5e92ae4f38695c09179099fb63b7eba8.jpg

 

Steve Thomas

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16 minutes ago, Steve Thomas said:

Trygve,

 

I personally believe that this is the person known as "Black Dog Man". If you look at these pictures from the bottom to the top, you can follow him as he leaves the corner of the fence and is walking east down the sidewalk running between the low brick wall and the Elm St. extension.

 

bdmcomp.thumb.jpg.5e92ae4f38695c09179099fb63b7eba8.jpg

 

Steve Thomas

 

Thanks Steve. Interesting. I had even worse English back then, when asking him those questions.

I'm then wondering which route exactly he would have walked, - following the series of photos you provided. From "1" to "2". 

East of fence, west of the pedestal in Betzner. Then on the south side of the Pergola - east end, on this second photo from the bottom. ( Who took it ?)

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1 hour ago, Trygve V. Jensen said:

 

 this second photo from the bottom. ( Who took it ?)

Trygve,

 

I'm sorry, I don't know. Perhaps the same person who took this other one? Cabluck maybe?

1374988954_bdm23.thumb.jpg.62f95b918a4429868019d646d4b7fa04.jpg

 

Steve Thomas

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It seems the left is by Harry Cabluck yes.

cabluck1

And this one :

cabluck2

------------------------------

The one to the right is apparently by Richard Oscar Bothun :

 

bothun4

 

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