Jump to content
The Education Forum

Does everyone know what these pics are about?


Recommended Posts

The testimony contradictions in the Oswald sighting story at the Randle house the morning of 11,22,1963 are frustrating to get a handle on.

But as far as Beull Frazier's physical and emotional state during his lie detector test at the DPD...some questions.

Was this test administered at midnight? How long had Buell Frazier already been detained at the DPD at that point?

If it was midnight, anyone would be exhausted and perhaps agitated at that late hour, especially after all those highly stressful hours of questioning and almost getting into fisticuffs with an accusatory red faced homicide captain who is yelling at you to sign something you feel may implicate you in a crime such as JFK's assassination.

In all the years of seeing Buell Wesley Frazier in videotaped interviews ( more than a dozen? ) I just don't see or feel that he is lying about anything important in his story. Some of his recollections have changed in certain details over the years...but in ways I think would be normal after sharing these for 50+ years and questioned over and over about them.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 105
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Now, Linnie was supposed to have seen Oswald doing whatever he did that morning.  But she did not tell Wesley that Lee was there.

It was the mother, Essie Williams, who told Wesley that Oswald was outside.

But if you look at the FBI report on this, Essie does not mention Oswald with any package.  

Now Linnie did another screw up before the Warren Commission monkeys.  She said that when Oswald crossed over to Frazier's car he carried the package from the top and it nearly touched the ground.  But then when asked how he was dressed, she said she could not since she only saw him from the waist up.

Would not the obvious follow up be:  If you only saw him from the waist up, how did you know that the package was dangling from his hand nearly to the ground? (Reclaiming Parkland, pgs. 208-09)

 

Edited by James DiEugenio
Link to post
Share on other sites

DVP- so you believe the testimony of DPD officers who failed to take picture of paper bag? if you review their testimony closely, they differ on where they saw it. this appears to be perjured testimony to fill in a major broken chain in the evidence of what was supposed to be a key piece of evidence.  

Link to post
Share on other sites

Ian, thanks for posting that link.

Greg Parker has done some really good work on this whole issue.

And let me add this: The idea that Wesley Frazier was treated and acted just like say Molina is simply not credible.

Frazier said he went back downstairs after the assassination and ate his lunch.

He then went to the hospital to see his stepfather.  When he got there and how long he stayed is up in the air.

The police searched his car and home and found the Enfield.  Based on this, Frazier and his sister were called in to fill out affidavits.

Frazier was then called back later to be polygraphed.  This is the polygraph that DPD tried to forget and also ditched the results on.  Since they are not to be found today.

Frazier was reportedly so upset the operator could not get a reading on him.  And also Fritz and he almost came to blows.

Link to post
Share on other sites

This is just ridiculous.  Looking East out the kitchen window at the slats on the other side of the carport Linnie Mae could not have seen Wesley's car parked outside it whether it was pointed North or South.  She could Not have seen Oswald or anyone else put anything in Wesley's car as the pictures show the scene.  As a point of orientation the house sits on the South side of the street facing North.  Across the street and two houses down,  on the North side of the street facing South is the Paine house where LHO spent his last free night on earth.   You google the Paine house now you get the Irving Chamber of Commerce at 801 Irving Blvd., not 2515 W Fifth St.  Where their historical structure is located.

http://www.cityofirving.org/498/Ruth-Paine-House-Museum 

Here it is.  Zoom in.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2515+W+5th+St,+Irving,+TX+75060/@32.8106442,-97.0223486,12.99z/data=!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e8391689d1dcf:0x42f4add222437b29!8m2!3d32.8097133!4d-96.979283

I think Wesley lived two or three houses up the other side of the street, as it appears now.

https://www.google.com/maps/place/2515+W+5th+St,+Irving,+TX+75060/@32.8096163,-96.9795361,266m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x864e8391689d1dcf:0x42f4add222437b29!8m2!3d32.8097133!4d-96.979283 

Fascinating to me now.  Grandparents lived in Irving in 63.  Went to a party at the Paine house on the 30th anniversary.  Still have a friend who lived in Irving at the time of the assassination in grade school.

Edited by Ron Bulman
Link to post
Share on other sites
On 3/15/2018 at 8:52 PM, Micah Mileto said:

Frazier is the best contradiction in the whole case - A man with an outrageous story that seems fabricated to frame Oswald as somebody with no advanced planning, yet he always makes sure to swear that the package was small enough to fit under Oswald's armpit while cupped in the same hand.

 

I've always been suspicious as to why, after driving on the freeway(?) to work, he allegedly decided to let his car run at fast idle for a few minutes, thereby giving a lingering(?) Oswald a head start on the walk to the TSBD.

I mean, so that the battery could get charged up???

--  Tommy  :sun

Edited by Thomas Graves
Link to post
Share on other sites

I think it was four houses down Ron.  And yes, I have a hard time buying that Linnie could have seen Oswald coming down through either window.  

Which makes me wonder how the WC could not have understood this point by looking at those pictures.

 On December 1, 1963 Frazier appeared to change his story about how Oswald got out in front of him on the walk to the TSBD.  As Lee Farley wrote in that thread I noted above at ROKC, now there was no mention of him gunning his engine to charge his battery after driving to work.  Frazier now told Bardwell Odum that he slowed down to gaze at some welders working on the railroad tracks as LHO got out about fifty feet ahead of him.

The idea, of course, is that somehow LHO had to hide that package from Frazier.   Whether its engine charging, or welder watching, that is a part of the story.

Of course, as others have noted, e.g. Sylvia Meagher, no one else saw Oswald with his furtive package.

 

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thomas Graves wrote: 

“I've always been suspicious as to why, after driving on the freeway(?) to work, he allegedly decided to let his car run at fast idle for a few minutes, thereby giving a lingering(?) Oswald a head start on the walk to the TSBD.

I mean, so that the battery could get charged up???”


It’s my hypothesis that Lee Oswald and his crew were pulling stunts (partially for our benefit) that were derived from anagrams of their own names. A few anagrams of “Lee Harvey Oswald” may apply here:

Wesley drove Lee to work on the 22nd. “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to:

“A WESLEY DROVE A LH”

Supposedly, another passenger in Wesley’s car that morning was Lee’s rifle. “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to:

“WESLEY HAVE A L ROD”

When they arrived at work, Lee walked on ahead while Wes stayed behind and revved his engine. “Lee Harvey Oswald” anagrams to:

“A REV DELAY WES. LHO”

“AY, LHO LEAD, WES REV”

“A LHO AD: WESLEY REV”

Perhaps not too interesting, unless one combines these with the hundreds of other anagrams that seem to inexplicably correspond with actual enigmatic events associated with Lee Oswald.
 

Edited by Tom Hume
Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 11:06 PM, David Von Pein said:

BUD SAID:

Do you think it is possible for her [Linnie Mae Randle] to have seen this [LHO putting the package in the back seat of Frazier's car], David?


DAVID VON PEIN SAID [OCT. 21, 2009]:

I'm not sure. But I certainly think it's possible, given the amount of space between the slats in the carport (as seen in the photo below):

CD497--13.jpg

I certainly don't think Linnie Mae was lying at all. She possibly HEARD more than she SAW.

I.E.,

She peeks out the kitchen door and HEARS the person who she just saw walk toward her brother's car (Lee Oswald). It's obvious that the person at Frazier's car at that point in time was the person Randle just saw cross the street (Oswald).

Randle then HEARS the door of Frazier's car being opened. It's also possible that she gets enough of a glimpse of Oswald through the slats of the carport to see at least a portion of Oswald as he places the bag in the car.

So, the combination of HEARING what Oswald was doing at the car and very likely SEEING a little bit of Oswald through the slats was certainly enough information, IMO, for Mrs. Linnie Mae Randle to reasonably testify in the following manner:

"He opened the right back door and I just saw that he was laying the package down, so I closed the door."

 

The slats face downward, overlapping to prevent rain from coming in, slow strong wind but yet allow air to flow through  .  Though they are in sad repair seeing anything clearly enough to testify to through them is something any attorney would eat up like honey on his biscuit in the morning.  You can only see "through" them looking downward at an extreme angle, I. E. right next to them, then your looking down at the ground or the very bottom part of a car parked outside it. 

Link to post
Share on other sites
25 minutes ago, Ron Bulman said:

The slats face downward, overlapping to prevent rain from coming in, slow strong wind but yet allow air to flow through  .  Though they are in sad repair seeing anything clearly enough to testify to through them is something any attorney would eat up like honey on his biscuit in the morning.  You can only see "through" them looking downward at an extreme angle, I. E. right next to them, then your looking down at the ground or the very bottom part of a car parked outside it. 

 

Ron, that's a good point. I just looked at the slats again to see if I can see the outline of the car outside. I don't. The light we see shining through is from the ground. Some of it is possibly from the lower part of the car... on the driver's side. (The car outside is facing to the left.)

 

CD497--13.jpg

Link to post
Share on other sites
On ‎3‎/‎16‎/‎2018 at 2:10 PM, Bart Kamp said:

ROKC ScAN

linnie11.jpg

 

cd497-10.jpg

 

cd497-11.jpg

 

ce44510.jpg

Thanks Bart.  #9 helped me put # 14 Jim posted in perspective.  IT is not taken from 5th St. but Westbrook as the Randle home set on the corner of those streets.  I've been by there many years ago on my way to the Paine house, where a friend lived at the time.  But I never knew exactly where the Randle home was.  From 2515 W. 5th Oswald walked East past four (as Jim mentioned) houses, turned left (North) on Westbrook around to the back of the Randle house which was actually at 2439 W 5th.  Linne Mae could have seen him walking by out the kitchen window.  But she could not have trying to look out the door through the slats on the carport.  Why would she in the first place?  Oswald rode with her brother several times before, though not on a Friday.  But why would she consciously make the effort to try to look at him through the slats she knew she couldn't see through?   It was cool that morning, the door wouldn't have been open.  Had she seen the packaged curtain rods through the window and had to have a closer look?

I don't think so.  She was coached.

Here's the house today with the now enclosed and expanded carport (now garage) on the left.  Scroll around for better views.

 https://www.google.com/maps/@32.8095135,-96.9785522,3a,90y,59.75h,108.56t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sABa2y6qcqj3tU0s3V0DHPg!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

Edited by Ron Bulman
Link to post
Share on other sites

BTW, referring to the DVP discussion above, I do not recall any mention in Linnie's testimony about hearing anything.

Therefore, it remains a mystery as to why she would look out that window and beyond that, how she could claim to see LHO through the slats, a car and if the car is pointed in the direction the WC says, another car.

And by the way, from my knowledge, now that Wesley Frazier is talking, and going to conferences, from what I hear, he back sup Linnie on this "see through the slats" thing.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please sign in to comment

You will be able to leave a comment after signing in



Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...