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James DiEugenio

Does everyone know what these pics are about?

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Thank you, David.  

Now re Randle, she estimated the bag as being 27", and you accept her estimate, but you don't accept what she said about the bag being carried across the road with it held  at the top like a baseball bat,  the bottom not touching the floor. Again, I've just measured the 2"x1" hanging from my hand and the bottom of the piece is about two inches from the floor. (A 27" bag would have been touching the floor.)

Why would her estimate of 27" be nearer that of  Frazier, who not only saw the bag on the rear seat of his car, but also Oswald carrying it as he said cupped in his hand and armpit?

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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12 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

He was holding a dismantled Carcano rifle wrapped in brown paper (just like Oswald did on 11/22/63). And Dan Rather was able to walk away from the CBS camera without having the bag fall out of his hand.

What is the length of the longest piece of a broken down Carcano, David?

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21 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

What is the length of the longest piece of a broken down Carcano, David?

34.8 inches.

And allow me to repeat this....

VINCE BUGLIOSI -- "Mr. Frazier, is it true that you paid hardly any attention to this bag?"

BUELL FRAZIER -- "That is true."

BUGLIOSI -- "So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body, and you wouldn't have been able to see it, is that correct?"

FRAZIER -- "That is true."

OswaldsRiflePaperBagFromFBIReport.jpg

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"I wonder what the odds are of Lee Oswald having carried a DIFFERENT brown bag into work from the one WITH HIS TWO IDENTIFIABLE PRINTS ON IT that was found by the cops in the Sniper's Nest on the 6th Floor?

Care to guess at what those odds might be? They must be close to "O.J. DNA" type numbers (in favor of the empty brown bag that was found by the police on the 6th Floor of the Book Depository being the very same bag that Buell Wesley Frazier and Linnie Mae Randle saw in Lee Harvey Oswald's hands on the morning of November 22, 1963).

I'm eagerly awaiting the logical and believable conspiracy-slanted explanation that will answer the question of why a 38-inch empty paper bag (which could house Oswald's 34.8-inch disassembled rifle [see the comparison photo above]), which was an empty bag with Oswald's fingerprints on it, was in the place where it was found after the assassination (the sixth-floor Sniper's Nest) and yet still NOT have Lee Oswald present at that sniper's window on 11/22/63.

I, for one, cannot think of a single "Oswald Is Innocent" explanation for that empty paper sack being where it was found after the assassination of John Kennedy....AND with Oswald's fingerprints on it." -- David Von Pein; October 2007

Edited by David Von Pein

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8 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

34.8 inches.

And allow me to repeat this....

VINCE BUGLIOSI -- "Mr. Frazier, is it true that you paid hardly any attention to this bag?"

BUELL FRAZIER -- "That is true."

BUGLIOSI -- "So the bag could have been protruding out in front of his body, and you wouldn't have been able to see it, is that correct?"

FRAZIER -- "That is true."

OswaldsRiflePaperBagFromFBIReport.jpg

So the length 34.8" blows both Oswald 's 24" and Randle's 27" estimates out of the water.

If Oswald had been carrying a bag carrying a 34.8" long the top of the bag would have been showing about  12" above his shoulder, (Again, I've just tried it with a piece of 2"x 1" 34.8" long) which would have easily have been seen by Frazier.

There are two alternatives to the rifle being in the bag.

1. There never was a bag.

2. The bag (if there was one) carried something other than a broken down rifle.

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Wesley Frazier quote....

"Like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all."

--------------------

Therefore, given the fact that Frazier was paying virtually NO ATTENTION at all to Oswald as the two of them walked toward the building, tell me again, Ray, WHY Frazier would have had no choice but to see (and make a mental note of, for future reference) the part of the package that was likely protruding above Lee's right shoulder?

Edited by David Von Pein

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11 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

Wesley Frazier quote....

"Like I say, I didn't pay much attention to the package other than I knew he had it under his arm and I didn't pay too much attention the way he was walking because I was walking along there looking at the railroad cars and watching the men on the diesel switch them cars and I didn't pay too much attention on how he carried the package at all."

--------------------

Therefore, given the fact that Frazier was paying virtually NO ATTENTION at all to Oswald as the two of them walked toward the building, tell me again, Ray, WHY Frazier would have had no choice but to see (and make a mental note of, for future reference) the part of the package that was likely protruding above Lee's right shoulder?

Funny how "didn't pay much attention to the package" morphs into "NO ATTENTION at all", in the mind of a Felucca.

 

"Mr. BALL - What did the package look like? 
Mr. FRAZIER - Well, I will be frank with you, I would just, it is right as you get out of the grocery store, just more or less out of a package, you have seen some of these brown paper sacks you can obtain from any, most of the stores, some varieties, but it was a package just roughly about two feet long. 
Mr. BALL - It was, what part of the back seat was it in? 
Mr. FRAZIER - It was in his side over on his side in the far back. 
Mr. BALL - How much of that back seat, how much space did it take up? 
Mr. FRAZIER - I would say roughly around 2 feet of the seat. 
Mr. BALL - From the side of the seat over to the center, is that the way you would measure it? 
Mr. FRAZIER - If, if you were going to measure it that way from the end of the seat over toward the center, right. But I say like I said I just roughly estimate and that would be around two feet, give and take a few inches."

 

Doesn't sound like NO ATTENTION at all to me.

Walking behind Oswald, Frazier would have noticed a package sticking up 12" above his shoulder.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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20 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Funny how "didn't pay much attention to the package" morphs into "NO ATTENTION at all", in the mind of a Felucca.

I didn't say "no attention at all", I said "virtually NO ATTENTION at all".

Slightly changes the debate when all the info is given, eh Ray?

 

Quote

Walking behind Oswald, Frazier would have noticed a package sticking up 12" above his shoulder.

And you can prove he "would have noticed" that, eh Ray? (And you're overstating the amount of the package that would have been protruding above LHO's shoulder.) How do you think you can prove this? Especially since you know that Frazier admits that he didn't pay much attention to Oswald as they walked toward the TSBD.

In your world, does "I didn't pay much attention to the package" somehow translate to "would have noticed" a particular protrusion?

 

Edited by David Von Pein

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5 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I didn't say "no attention at all", I said "virtually NO ATTENTION at all".

Slightly changes the debate when all the info is given, eh Ray?

 

Quote

 

And you can prove he "would have noticed" that, eh Ray? How do you think you can prove this? Especially since you know that Frazier admits that he didn't pay much attention to Oswald as they walked toward the TSBD.

 

Does "I didn't pay much attention to the package" somehow translate to "would have noticed" a particular protrusion in your world?

 

Nope. Just like you can't prove that he didn't pay "virtually any attention at all" to the bag.

Try cutting apiece of timber to 34.8" long and hold it in your hand and ask somebody to stand behind you to see if it is noticeable.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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1 hour ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Try cutting apiece of timber to 34.8" long and hold it in your hand and ask somebody to stand behind you to see if it is noticeable.

That's not the point. Such a protrusion above the shoulder probably would have been "noticeable", yes. But just because it COULD have been seen, does that mean Frazier (who, remember, wasn't paying very much attention) WOULD definitely have noticed it? Of course not.

Edited by David Von Pein

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16 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

That's not the point. Such a protrusion above the shoulder probably would have been "noticeable", yes. But just because it COULD have been seen, does that mean Frazier (who wasn't paying very much attention, remember) WOULD definitely have noticed it? Of course not.

Only in your mind, David. only in your mind.

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37 minutes ago, Ray Mitcham said:

Only in your mind, David. Only in your mind.

I would have thought the difference between the words "noticeable" and "noticed" would be readily apparent to anyone familiar with the English language. But, I guess I was wrong. Ray has no idea that the two words are not the same.

Edited by David Von Pein

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34 minutes ago, David Von Pein said:

I would have thought the difference between the words "noticeable" and "noticed" would be readily apparent to anyone familiar with the English language. But, I guess I was wrong. Ray has no idea that the two words are not the same.

Lmao. It would be noticeable, David. i.e observable.

Note what I wrote.
"Try cutting apiece of timber to 34.8" long and hold it in your hand and ask somebody to stand behind you to see if it is noticeable."

 

I said nothing about it being noticeable to Oswald. Do try to keep up, son.

Anybody walking behind somebody with a package sticking 12" above his shoulder would certainly have been noticed.

Edited by Ray Mitcham

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And he cupped it in his hand underneath his arm pit......

Yeah that's a snug fit :P

That's me ( 6 5") holding the wooden rifle body of a Mannlicher Carcano underneath my armpit, thanks to Ian Griggs.

IMG_0937.jpg

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Mrs. RANDLE. He was carrying a package in a sort of a heavy brown bag, heavier than a grocery bag it looked to me. It was about, if I might measure, about this long, I suppose, and he carried it in his right hand, had the top sort of folded down and had a grip like this, and the bottom, he carried it this way, you know, and it almost touched the ground as he carried it. 

Unless he was 6'8" - that's not possible given the 34" minimum length....

Mrs. RANDLE. I measured 27" last time. 
Mr. BALL. You measured 27" once before? 
Mrs. RANDLE. Yes, sir. 

5aaffd388e70a_paperbagcarriedbyMontgomery.thumb.jpg.613b61771e416ff920f11428c9df0749.jpg

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